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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

QUARTERBACKS BY QUADRANT

We tried to find so many other ways to break this down, including one finalist "dumbass/genius," which didn't work the minute you considered Jamarcus Russell and Rex Grossman's college stats, and since both spent their final semesters engaged in one variety of futile task or another. (Rex: seeking the perfect whippit; Jamarcus, attempting to untangle sheets, giving up, napping for three months.)  

Another was "sexy/unsexy," which turned out to be a kind of conflagration of a qb's overall risk-friendliness matched with their unquantifiable lustiness in general. This turned out to be far, far too slippery, as what floated the boat of Ohio State fans (GRRR HANDOFFS BABY) differed greatly from what a USC fan might consider sexy (POST ROUTE BOMB LEINART PREGNANCY MAGIC.)  

Ultimately we arrived at this: Quarterbacks exist in two dimensions. First, they're one degree or another of physically gifted. Second, they're either risk-averse or not. This last one's slippery, as you'll see, but for parsimony's sake roll with us to the graph below. 

BEHOLD THE MATRIX: 

Screen_shot_2010-03-29_at_12

Counter-clockwise, starting in the upper left: 

SAFE/GIFTED PROTOTYPE: Sam Bradford

OTHERS: Matt Leinart, Kellen Moore, Jimmy Clausen

TRAITS: Not only being physically gifted, but squeaky clean in the ops department, your Safe/Gifted prototype knows he could turn a DB's hands into a fine red mist with his arm strength in an attempt to force a pass into coverage, but instead checks down to a safer play when circumstances demand it. Bradford's 2008 season was the pinnacle of skill meets safety: 50 TDs to just 8 INTs with only 11 sacks. He had a wealth of tools to work with, sure, but all the talent in the world won't matter without football IQ to manage it. (See: Risky/Gifted, aka "the Snead Quadrant" or "Jeff George Memorial Bracket.*") 

Star-divide

(Clausen belongs in there, too: 28 TDs, 4 INTs in his senior year. 24 sacks to go with that, too, but he was throwing bullets off his back foot with a ruptured spleen and a shiv sticking from a punctured lung. Douchebag, yes; talented and aware, yes and yes.)  

SAFE/MARGINAL PROTOTYPE: Craig Krenzel 

OTHERS: Jay Barker, anyone who has the phrase "He just wins football games" said about them, Buck Belue. 

TRAITS: Slow? Has a major you wouldn't normally assume was possible with a football scholarship? Doesn't actually have a football scholarship? Unrecognizable in a throwing motion, but unmistakable in a handoff pose? The Safe/Marginal prototype is the guy out there to not screw things up, hand off, and maybe--MAYBE--make three plays a game that matter passing. Okay, maybe two.  Will later own an insurance business, but not a car dealership, because those are for big ballers only who can throw plastic footballs at big openings without children laughing at their arm strength and throwing motions. 

RISKY/MARGINAL PROTOTYPE: Reggie Ball. 

3c797fc0-998e-431c-9fa1-8250387d2c26_medium

 

via espn-i.starwave.com

OTHERS: Michael Henig,  Juice Williams, Tommy Beecher

TRAITS: Oh, the sad apex of when high school talent flatlines. They got further along than you did: after all, they did get a scholly, or at least walked on and are probably better athletes than you ever dreamed of being. Except for Noah Brindise. You're probably as talented as Noah Brandise is in something athletic. 

THAT'S NOT THE POINT. The point is: the risky/marginal combo refuses to acknowledge either the limits on their own talent or that of their teammates, and puts their team into dangerous situations over and over again. This is sometimes not their fault due to zero pass protection, poor route running, or a general lack of competence teamwise. No quarterback exists in a vacuum, true, but the marginal risky vacuum takes said vacuum, fills it with killer bears in spacesuits, and then invites them to attack while insulting their mothers. 

RISKY/GIFTED PROTOTYPE: Jevan Snead

OTHERS: Brett Favre, Steven Garcia, Matt Barkley (thus far,) Matt Ryan (in college, certainly)  

TRAITS: Sleeping with your girlfriend, but leaving traces all over your apartment most likely, and not intentionally. Risky/Gifted qbs have the tools and will remain convinced of it to the day they die, which is why they usually expire after accidentally throwing a lit cigarette not into the yard, but into the gas tank of their parked car on accident. ("I thought the lawn was open.")  Jevan Snead is the pinnacle of this phenomenon: good judgment on one throw, and absolutely blindsidingly awful on the next. But it always looks pretty, and that's what counts. 

Fun part! IN LIFE YOU ARE ONE OF THESE. We're afraid we're a risky/marginal, but somehow clinging to a starting job. 

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<---Safe Marginal

Seeing myself in the Jay Barker mode….although sans the hot country-singer wife

by sandman227ahb on Mar 29, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Here at the University of Georgia

We aspire for diversity. That’s why our last four starting QB’s represent all four quadrants of the quarterback matrix. Safe/Gifted? D.J. Shockley. Safe/Marginal? David Greene. Risky/Gifted? Matthew Stafford. Risky/Marginal? Joe Cox.

by Torgo's Executive Powder on Mar 29, 2010 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Don’t forget Joe T III…
Also might be selling Greene a little short.

by jokastrength on Mar 29, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Unrecognizable in a throwing motion, but unmistakable in a handoff pose?” David. Effing. Greene. Though he still had one of the best play action fakes I’ve seen.

by Torgo's Executive Powder on Mar 29, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oregon's got a nice foursome

Dennis Dixon – safe and gifted – see the 20/4 ratio his senior year

Jeremiah Masoli – risky and gifted – ROBBED A FUCKING FRATERNITY AFTER WINNING THE PAC-10 BY TWO GAMES

Kellen Clemens – safe and marginal – squeezed into a lifetime backup role in the NFL, might be a little bit too talented for this quadrant

Brady Leaf – risky and marginal – top-10 ankle sprainer in CFB history

by Twith on Mar 29, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please, for the sake of Oregon students like myself

Don’t say the name Brady Leaf. Still too soon.

"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."

by Joey C. on Mar 29, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brady Leaf

That’s like being named Jamarcus McNown.

... Paul Hoynes is a really great guy ...

by westbrook on Mar 29, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I guess Tebow just smashes through the graph along the z axis?

Football is my anti-drug. CollegeGameBalls.com

by collegegameballs on Mar 29, 2010 2:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Something like that.

"In case you're wondering what the offense should look like, that wasn't it." - Urban Meyer

by cantcatchuf on Mar 29, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Might have been boring,

But, I admit, I loved him.

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by NormanConquest on Mar 29, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

welllllllllllllllll

thanks for the forced 180 emotional turn

Let me get back to you, will ya, Charlie? I got a guy on the other line asking about some white walls.

by NormanConquest on Mar 29, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

LMAO! Sorry...

hope you didn’t sustain whiplash!

by zzgator on Mar 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Demetrius Jones must be some sort of piecewise function.

Appears on the graph for a bit at x = ND, then disappears. Appears again at x = Northern Illinois, then disappears. Reappears at x = Cincinnati, becomes a linebacker.

Brian Kelly says no Burger King at 3 AM.

by Ancient Chinese Secret on Mar 29, 2010 2:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Ben Mauk = 1/x

Well played.

I guess that would make Ben Mauk similar to the function y = 1/x. Where x is the numbers of years he was eligible. The NCAA ruled that he approached zero somewhere around his 15th year of college.

I really don't know if anything sums up America better. It is simultaneously preposterous, incrediably laughable, impressive, charming, redicoulous, expensive, overpopulated, wonderful, American. -Sir Stephen Fry on visiting the Iron Bowl

by RanchyBalls on Mar 29, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jay Barker

actually owns a car dealership. Chevy, to be exact.

<— grew up in Tuscaloosa and was 9 when Bama won the national title, so remembers every detail about the team

by jgraham on Mar 29, 2010 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Let's be realistic.

Alabama is an exception to the rule in so many ways. Backup kickers get car dealerships there.

by Spencer Hall on Mar 29, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most awkward quarterback ever called upon to run the option: CHECK

Industrial Engineering graduate and Masters student. Joe Hamilton was a tough act to follow, but Godsey did his best.
Would also like to submit Quincy Carter for Risky/Marginal. Any takers?

by TangoHotelWhiskeyGolf on Mar 29, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh about Quincy...

…some fellow SEC posters and I, on a long time message board, had some fun with the UGA fans. Basically it boiled down to “so and so is a better QB than Quincy”. Plug any person living or dead in for so and so. Ahh, memories.

Auburn and Tennessee fans are a lot like Slinkys...neither are worth much but you do get a sense of satisfaction from pushing them down a flight of stairs

by bamachine on Mar 29, 2010 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

based on previous writings...

could the safe/marginal quadrant safely be re-named the “Auburn Quadrant” ?

by A Bullet from Burger on Mar 29, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

For the most part...

…sure. Though Jason Campbell skews it somewhat, since he was, you know, like good and stuff.

by Spencer Hall on Mar 29, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone who actually watches pro football have any opinions about whether his run at the Skins indicates crapulous coaching or that he was really good until he had to go to the next level?

by DC Trojan on Mar 29, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't really recall that

I do recall Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams being good. Jason Campbell’s first three years were like a floating McConagey-less Stephen Garcia, then his fourth year he was more or less Matt Flynn.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Mar 29, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tyrod Taylor is like that system that looks like it should be stable at first glance, but has one pole floating around in the right half plane, just waiting to throw everything out of whack.

by Synaesthesia on Mar 29, 2010 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

the terrelle pryor corollary

how do you account for him?

he is at once risky/gifted and safe/marginal

by INTERNETZ! on Mar 29, 2010 2:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Have him be a point on the function (x)^2 + (y+5)^2 = 1. Assign values of ω as needed.

by Synaesthesia on Mar 29, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Psh, I forgot the quadrant assignments. I guess he could be a quadrifolium, and just use inequalities as needed.

by Synaesthesia on Mar 29, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where does Josh Nesbitt fit on that?

I’m thinking “fullback.”

Safe/gifted (as a runner) until late in a game down a touchdown-plus, and then risky/marginal.

by Golden Hand on Mar 29, 2010 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Sub-Levels of Risky/Gifted

Level One: Jevon Snead, Brett Favre, Matt Barkley and Matt Ryan

Level SEX WITH THE BLISTERED AND RAZOR BLADE-LINED ASS OF AN AIDS-INFECTED WILDEBEEST: Steven Garcia

by Jack Fact on Mar 29, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Something that will shock non-South Carolina fans

Stephen Garcia just completed his SO season. He’s penciled in to start another 24-26 games.

by GwinnettGamecock on Mar 29, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I swear he's been a senior for the last five years.

"In case you're wondering what the offense should look like, that wasn't it." - Urban Meyer

by cantcatchuf on Mar 29, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta love those

8th-year juniors. Real valuable to the team, have had plenty of time to learn the playbook, got multiple graduate degrees, and fine tune their mechanics.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Mar 29, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree with the Ball assessment

Risky is an understatement, but he was gifted athletically. In a different offense, his running skills would have made him a star, or at least good.

He also got less risky over the years, which is why his completion percentages went down. He learned to throw the ball away instead of taking 20 yard sacks.

by gtne91 on Mar 29, 2010 3:47 PM EDT reply actions  

5th Down Reggie

I just surprised his wiki page had a “Professional Career” section.

by jokastrength on Mar 29, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

"...he learned to throw the ball away..."

I guess one needn’t really point out anymore than that.

not drunk, just overserved

by Gen. Stoopnagle on Mar 29, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. Ball was gifted, in a sense.

Anyway, risky/marginal is where the glory is at. Who wants to watch Craig Krentzel run the power I 35 times a game? COMMUNISTS, that’s who.

Don't Panic.

by 4.0 Point Stance on Mar 29, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ben Leard...

If I set the origin of this graph in Auburn, AL…then Ben Leard is located somewhere near Tittybong, Victoria, Australia…and about 100 feet below sea level on the Z-axis.

by Terry Bowden's Shoe Lifts on Mar 29, 2010 3:47 PM EDT reply actions  

this thread is missing something

JPW for teh winz!

drunk comment of the week: Stop talking about Nick Saban's crotch

by Wallacewade04 on Mar 29, 2010 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

The second hit on a Google search for "Noah Brandise"...

… gives you this paean to the recruiting/motivational skills of one [NAME REDACTED], in which Mr. Brandise makes a cameo. Mind you, this is the second hit of the search and he’s already reduced to cameo status.

"Smokey, this be not the foul jungles of the darkest East Orient. This be ninepins. We are bound by laws."

by Joey C. on Mar 29, 2010 4:22 PM EDT reply actions  

[NAME REDACTED] may not have been as oblivious as we thought
“I heard this said once by a Bear Bryant assistant: ’I’d rather be known as a bad coach with good players than a good coach with bad players,’” [NAME REDACTED] says. “Well, I agree with that. And we’ve got a great product to sell here at Florida.”

From the article dated September 5, 2002

Tim Tebow 2010.
Bring the hate.
Feed the beast.

by GoGators15 on Mar 29, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was going to complain that Pat White wasn’t anywhere on this graph, but then realized there was no “Magical/Unbelievably Gifted” quadrant.

by An 'eer with a beer on Mar 29, 2010 5:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't know where Ricky Stanzi fits in all of this.

Risky certainly, but he seems to walk the tightrope between marginal and gifted as the game progresses.

by Cairo on Mar 29, 2010 5:49 PM EDT reply actions  

I was wondering the same thing

except he’s not really risky. Risk implies chance. Him throwing a Stanzi-ball returned for a TD is a certainty.

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Mar 29, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plus

none of these quadrants factor in the vital America-loving property.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Mar 29, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to say Risky/Gifted

He can throw a pretty ball and he’s a true leader.

He’ll throw a pick six though if he wants to liven things up.

by HawkeyeRecon on Mar 29, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure

how exactly Kellen Moore fits in on the safe/gifted quadrant. Although he is awesome, he’s kinda slow and doesn’t have great arm strength (at least, given his deep throws).

by killtacular on Mar 30, 2010 12:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Where the hell

is Ryan-f’ing Leaf on that chart?

Come on people let’s get back to the early part of the decade can we? Geez!

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!
- Ben Franklin, skirt chaser par excellence

by Charlie Weis's Colon on Mar 30, 2010 10:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Minor nit: Clausen was a junior last year.

Weis’ first 2 years were with Quinn. Clausen came in during the abomination that was 2007’s 3-9 season.

by GeauxIrish on Mar 30, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions  

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