Six Nations Rugby - mud blood guts & beer
by TadAllagash on Feb 3, 2012 11:49 AM EST
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PrintLeader: College fb is long gone and NFL grinds to a halt Sunday, so if you need an offseason excuse to drink and watch contact sports the Six Nations Championship starts this weekend. For the uninitiated, it's an annual rugby tournament between the top national teams of Europe - England, France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland & Italy. Though New Zealand won the 2011 Rugby World Cup, the northern hemisphere had a good showing and this should be an entertaining tournament (started in 1883, it's also about a 100 years older than the RWC). France are the favorites this year, but Wales, Ireland & England aren't far behind.
If you don't know much about rugby, it's a good blend of the flow of soccer and the contact of football. Where it differs from football is that there are no pads, forward passes, timeouts or commercial breaks. Also worth noting is that all onfield decisions are made by the players - the coaches sit in the box and cannot interact with them during play. Here's a good rugby primer if you want to read more.
How to watch: For the past couple years, BBC America HD has broadcast one game on each of the five weekends. For the other games, one has to trek to a rugby bar with the int'l feed - find a local venue here. Anyone that lives in NYC, The Red Lion, Dorian Gray & McCormack's are popular & rowdy spots and provide a great reason to get slizzered with a bunch of Euros at 10am on a Saturday. ATLiens your best bet is probably Fado, Tampa - Macdinton's. BBC America TV schedule posted below, full schedule here. (Games last about two hours - there are two 40 minute halves with a ~15 min halftime):
Saturday Feb 4, 12pm: England v Scotland
Saturday Feb 11, 3pm: France v Ireland
Saturday Feb 25, 11am: England v Wales
Saturday Mar 10, 9:30am: Wales v Italy
Saturday Mar 17, 1pm: England v Ireland*
*Yes, England plays Ireland on St Patricks Day, which is also on a Saturday this year. You have been warned.
Odds to win: France 6/4, Wales 3/1, England 4/1, Ireland 4/1, Scotland 25/1, Italy 150/1
Six Nations 2011 Highlights (via AdamMKeane)
Rootability*
- England (pop. 51mm): The biggest market for rugby, they invented the sport and the UK media covers the sport extensively, though with a clear fawning bias to the home team. Unlimited resources but usually underachieves on the field. Supporters tend to be overpaid and overserved (think lax bros in the US). Hated by every other team & fanbase. Won world cup in 2003, one of four teams to have won it and only team from Northern Hemisphere. Woefully underperformed in 2011 RWC, and had a few unsavoury off-field incidents in the process. College FB comp: Notre Dame, Texas
- Scotland (pop. 5mm): Great rugby history but have not been a factor in recent memory - though things are trending up after recent defeats of Southern Hemisphere heavyweights Australia & South Africa. One-yard-and-a-cloud-of-dust style of play. Rivalry against England is one of the oldest in international sports - beyond pride, at stake is a trophy with cobras on it. College FB comp: Texas A&M
- Wales (pop. 3mm): Rugby is the national sport of Wales, and as such punches far above it's relative weight with a robust history and an appealing open style of play. Program is looking up after WC semi appearance last year. Every other player is named "Jones'. Visceral hatred of much larger island-mate England. College FB comp: Oklahoma
- Ireland (pop. 6mm): Historically shaky but recent vintages have raised expectations considerably. Raging passionate hammered fan base with extreme historical grievance against rival (surprise!) England. Along with Wales, probably the easiest team to root for as a non-partisan. College FB comp: Ole Miss *Should also note that the Irish team selects players from both the Republic of Ireland and from Northern Ireland, going above national & religious boundaries.
- Italy (pop. 60mm): New to major international rugby. Surprisingly physical style of play. Haven't made waves yet, though the sport is growing in Italy but still trails far behind soccer. College FB comp: UNC, Kentucky
- France (pop. 65mm): The great paradox of rugby. Defying national stereotypes, forward/line play is nasty, rugged & effective; confirming national stereotypes, the backs/skill players are handsome & elegant. The French are comically inconsistent (see 2011 RWC), though when they do they can beat any team in the world. Varied facial hair and frat swoops abound. Team like life itself: moody, improvised, sometimes boring, but with moments that make it all worthwhile. College FB equivalent: none. Closest I can think of is the Brazilian soccer team x 70s Oakland Raiders.
*Southern Hemisphere: South Africa = Bama, Australia = USC, New Zealand = Harlem Globetrotters
For UK local media coverage, The Daily Telegraph is probably your best bet.
Week 1 Recap: France 30 - 12 Italy, England 13 - 6 Scotland, Wales 23 - 21 Ireland
Week 2 Recap: England 19 - 15 Italy, Wales 27 - 13 Scotland, France v Ireland ppd due to frozen pitch
Photo above via 2012 World Press Photo awards.
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Ireland=Florida. Only recently good, and unlike Ole Miss, actually wins.
France=Notre Dame. Catholic, universally hated, with super snooty and obnoxious fans.
Italy=North Carolina. I don’t know what Kentucky you’re watching that has “physical football”, UNC definitely fits this better. Plus you always get that “Aww look, they’re trying to play football” feeling like you do when you watch Italy playing rugby.
I avoid watching Italy play rugby on general principle.
In my mind, though, they suck so badly at it because they all fall down screaming like a stuck pig when they get within 3 yards of another player.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
Italy = UNC def makes sense
Though I think Ireland = Florida gives the Irish a bit too much credit. I like the Ole Miss comp bc they both have wistful, hammered fanbases.
I don't know
I think comparing them with Ole Miss is giving Ole Miss too much credit. I mean, Ireland is only 3 years removed from a Grand Slam (I was in Dublin when this happened, absolutely incredible), and Ole Miss hasn’t won anything comparable since the Kennedy administration. I think a team like FSU, who was only recently good, but who also underachieves greatly, is a better comparison.
I like the South Africa/Bama connection.
Has a historical appropriateness about it.
Also, ROLL DAMN ’BOKS has a nice ring to it.
Editor, Dawg Sports.
Go Dawgs!
Yeah
The Springbok/Crimson Tide comparison works on a couple different levels, prob the most accurate one of the bunch.
As a bookke
And uga fan I have to object to the bama comparison. Also NZ has one the most tri-nations, sort of like the SEC championship. Plus their fan attitude ties the two together; NZ should be Bama…
by Working Title on Feb 4, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
South Africa & Bama
One of them is a feared team that has won many championships with physical style of play and is from a part of the world with a complicated racial history and a diehard fanbase.
The other one is a feared team that has won many championships with physical style of play and is from a part of the world with a complicated racial history and a diehard fanbase.
WHO HATES ENGLAND?
YOU SHOULD HATE ENGLAND!
(No, really, the entire RFU and their organisation are a whole bunch of stuffy old farts who think that Downton Abbey is not a drama but an educational film on what society should look/act like. And I’m not just saying that because I’m a bitter fan of Rugby League—ask our resident Welshman about how horrible they are, or just look at the Guardian RU archives over the past few months.)
It's a funny name.
by Turd Ferguson on Feb 3, 2012 5:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I do not appreciate my homeland being compared to Oklahoma
I do not appreciate it in the least.
Yeah, probably.
This isn't an exact science.
An admired team from a smallish place. Both saw their heyday in the 70s and their archrival is a much larger program to the south.
Does anyone have a rec for livestreams of these matches?
Used to go to myp2p but it’s not the same anymore.
first row sports (dot) eu
remove all the spaces
My loyal heart avows no other.
"While you may not give a shit, @mlebowski313 is an unstoppable force of nature [at Words With Friends]" -T-Jax
I missed the England-Scotland match on Saturday
Work & the UW-OSU basketball game got in the way. However I’m planning on rectifying that error this weekend with France-Ireland.
You didn't miss anything.
The only try was because Andy Robinson is dumbass and won’t stop selecting Dan Parks (Parks has remedied this situation today, by announcing his retirement from international rugby with immediate effect). It was an ugly game, and we should’ve had the Wales-Ireland match instead.
Yeah, probably.
^^Agree
Scotland were so bad that their longtime flyhalf immediately retired after the match. Looked like Wales/Ireland was fantastic though, and France/Ireland Saturday should be a good one.
Yeah, France/Ireland should be excellent.
Also, despite the many and varied arguments the Welshman and I have had about this subject, would it be all right if I set up a thread for the other, more Northern form of rugby? I’ll bring my flat cap, pint of Tetley’s bitter, and hatred for Wigan/the BBC/the RFU/anything that isn’t within a 20-mile radius of the M62 motorway…
It's a funny name.
by Turd Ferguson on Feb 7, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
/twitch
I don’t mind, honestly. I’m not a fan, but I’ve been raised on the One, True, and Proper Rugby. We’ve had many a promising Union career ended by the Northern clubs poaching.
I think League is closer to football at any rate, for whatever that’s worth. I can watch it, but the same kind of way that I watch CFL.
Yeah, probably.
Rugby league?
I’m American so don’t really have a dog in the league/union fight, but I’ve only ever played or watched Union. My impetus for this post was that the 6N games were on BBC America so we could easily watch the games over here for once. Is league broadcast on any of the networks in the US?
Sadly, no.
They used to be on ESPN3, but the RFL sold the rights to some penny-ante outfit that mostly shows them on low-power TV channels that air informercials the rest of the time.
However, the better online viewing services regularly have links to them: normally the Super League airs at 3/2 CT on Fridays and 1/Noon CTish on Saturdays, though they’ll be doing Monday Night Rugby later in the year.
(FWIW: I’m American, too, have mostly played Union, but went to the UK a couple of years ago, saw Leeds-St Helens and London-Hull FC on a whim and was pretty much hooked. I’ll delve more into the reasons for the split in the new thread.)
It's a funny name.
by Turd Ferguson on Feb 7, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
The union situation isn't much better
Apart from these handful of Six Nations matches, the only other channel that shows rugby is Fox Soccer Plus. They show Premiership and the Heineken Cup, used to show Super XV but haven’t seen that in a while. That’s it, and I counted 24 different sports channels on Time Warner Cable. ESPN thinks we’d rather watch Colin Cowherd et al than actual sports.
Two things from the highlight video:
1. That is dirty as hell @ 1:30.
2. You can do that @ ~3:55? I take that’s a drop out at the 22? Granted I’ve only been playing for college and mens DII/III sides in the states and don’t see much international ball, but I’ve been playing for almost 8 years and I’ve never seen it that I can recall
ESS BEE CEEE SPEEEEEED!
by MightyMightyMitzu on Feb 8, 2012 12:55 AM EST reply actions
Sure you can
If the other guy is dumb enough to try that little tap right in front of you, you can kick it, pick it up, introduce it to your mother, whatever you want.
This is will be funny to anyone used to US sporting events
One of the Telegraph’s columnist complaining about the introduction of in game music and other crass commercial tomfoolery imported from the USA.
I hate the Telegraph, I really do
But it’s spot on. Half the fun of going to a rugby match is the crowd interaction, the singing, and the banter. Piped in musak should be stopped.
Yeah, probably.
France-Ireland
What a ridiculous situation. I can’t believe the Stade de France doesn’t have undersoil heating, or that they waited until 10min before the match to call it off. They haven’t picked a date to replay yet, I read that March 2 is likely but now the French clubs want the match moved to June, after their season is over.
Fine by me.
The French clubs wanted it played in June, so they’ve been rightly told to sod off. One of the advantages to having two off weeks built into the schedule is that they’re there if you need to postpone a match.
Plus, they’ll have played for four straight weeks by the time they come to Cardiff. Hopefully BBC America will decide to shuffle around and take that match, not the Saesneg match. Not holding my breath though.
Yeah, probably.
I didn't realize
that the nat’l teams release the players back to the clubs during the bye weekends – I figured they would have the duration of the tournament away from their clubs. France-Wales should the the 6N decider though, usually a cracking match.
Yeah, it's a stupid arrangement.
The tournament happens every year, and yet all the major club competitions continue for the duration. You’d think that they would take a hiatus for the tournament, so that the clubs don’t have to play without their best players.
Yeah, probably.
French rugby history is fascinating
First, the exclamation “Champagne rugby” comes from English broadcasters who were thrilled with the creative, skillful play of the French backline. The phrase is still used today to describe any creative play. Second, rugby union is very popular in southern France, a good deal away from the preening Parisians. Do some research into Vichy France’s role in the diminishing of rugby union in favor of league. The traitorous froggies almost snuffed out union because the southerners were so anti-Vichy. The Vichy were pro-league and pro-soccer. So, yes, rugby league equals fascist sympathizer while union equals badass freedom fighter. (ok, maybe that’s an simplification.)
There was an English documentary on the history of French rugby that was excellent. I can’t remember the name or producers, but it’s worth looking into.
As for the Italians, most of the team comes from the north. Those guys are blonder and bigger than your typical Roman or Neopolitan, and much tougher. They also use 1/100 of the amount of gel in their hair.
Looking forward to the revelation of Jordan Jefferson's Wonderlich "score"
Whoops. Got that backwards.
Switch the words “league” and “union.” Then the post is accurate.
Looking forward to the revelation of Jordan Jefferson's Wonderlich "score"
Yeah, I was just about to say that Vichy were incredibly anti-league, pro-union
so much so that even until about 10-20 years ago, league had to call itself “jeu de treize” because there were still Vichy-era laws on the books prohibiting it from using the word rugby.
It's a funny name.
Now in a easily digestable, 140-characters-at-a-time form.
by Turd Ferguson on Feb 22, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting stuff
Would love to see that documentary. France rugby culture is definitely unique. Also worth mentioning are the old Racing Metro Paris guys, who would play in pink bowties and drink champagne at halftime (and later found popular clothing line Eden Park).
Felt like I should report this here: A YORKSHIREMAN'S GUIDE TO HATING ENGLAND RUGBY
If not for the Rugby Football Union’s attitudes for the better part of the century, rugby might be more popular than football today. Just picture: a 24-team league stretching the length and breadth of the country. Historic names like Wigan, Bradford, St Helens and Hull playing Bath, Gloucester, Leicester and Harlequins week-in, week-out. Stock traders from the City standing by old miners from Castleford on the terraces at Twickenham to see England play France. Massive TV audiences and attendances for both the League and Challenge Cup.
But no.
You see, back in the 1880s, rugby was a booming sport, both in the South (where its players were middle-class, educated at public schools) and the North (where its players worked six days a week, in mines or factories). As such, much like Wales and their famed "Rhondda Forwards" immortalised in the songs of Max Boyce, players from clubs like Wakefield and Manningham (today’s Bradford City FC, after the FA gave them a ton of money to switch) dominated the England teams, regularly beating Southern clubs. However, since these men worked, they couldn’t play as easily as the Southern guys: giving up a day’s wages to go to France was hard in a strictly-amateur sport, let alone if you got hurt. They petitioned the RFU to allow for what was known as "broken-time" payments.
What was the RFU’s response? If you guessed "HAHAHAHAHAHAH NO, you can’t make a dime from this game despite us making a ton of money from ticket sales, and oh by the way you shouldn’t really be playing this game as you’re lower-class", you’re right. As such, those Northern teams met in the George Hotel, Huddersfield, in 1895 and formed the Rugby Football League, a split that has been the source of debates and anger from everyone involved, least of which between the Welshman and I on this very forum.
As a result, rugby union remained amateur for 101 more years, without as much of a club competition for the majority of it (because the RFU thought it would encourage professionalism), and the England squad retreated into a not-at-all-ironic caricature of their "Hooray Henry" status. In a 1960s documentary on rugby league, an RFU higher-up was quoted about the split as "We know we are right, but in the democratic world that we live in, our opinion may not be understood." Fans (if not players) remained mostly middle-class, conservative and blissfully unaware what opinion they projected. Case in point: the England team’s song is the spiritual "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot", which is awful ironic considering that England only really began playing black players in the early ’90s, and essentially ran off the great winger Martin Offiah to league because he came up against the subtle racism of the RFU selectors.
So there, Why a Yorkshireman Hates His Own Country’s Rugby Team. Part two, from a Welshman, to follow.
It's a funny name.
Now in a easily digestable, 140-characters-at-a-time form.
Excellent
Long simmering regional rivalries are something college football & rugby have in common. Now that union is fully professional, can you foresee a future wherein Northern England takes embraces union?
Short answer: no.
Long answer: Yes, there’s union teams up north (Sale, Leeds Tykes/Carnegie/Headingley, Rotherham, Newcastle to name a few) but while they have a ton of money behind them, they don’t have the connection to the general public of the North the way teams like Warrington or Hull FC/Hull KR do. There’s no real rivalries, no history, no memories and no big fanbase, and that won’t change for a while, because league is something that has become a big point of pride over the years amongst Lancastrians/Yorkshiremen/to a lesser extent Cumbrians.
It's a funny name.
Now in a easily digestable, 140-characters-at-a-time form.
by Turd Ferguson on Feb 25, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Could the leagues merge?
Forgive if this is an ignorant/offensive question – but could the major rugby league teams be absorbed into the union Premiership? Sort of like how the AFL & NFL merged – initially controversial but it was worked out quite well. Seems like they both would gain – union would get a larger audience/player pool, and the league teams would get entry in the bigger, more global sport.
The big issues would be the breakdowns and restarts.
Those are crucial to Union, and an afterthought in League. Union won’t bend and change their rules, so League would probably have to fold in completely.
Yeah, probably.
And we were singing
Hymns and Arias, Land of My Fathers (the good bit starts at 0:50, there’s some inane bullshit before it), ar hyd yr nos.
And a bit of a pick me up for your morning. Cachau bant Lloegr.
Yeah, probably.
Been listening to this all morning long
It's a funny name.
Now in a easily digestable, 140-characters-at-a-time form.
by Turd Ferguson on Feb 25, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Very nice.
As I said on the Twitters, I like this referee. He’s told the Saesneg scrummy to hurry the fuck up twice already.
Yeah, probably.
DAMNIT TELEVISION
FIRST WHY AREN’T YOU IN HD BBC AMERICA ON U-VERSE, AND DAMNIT 1/2P WALES FINALLY WIN THE SCRUM PENALTY LOTTERY AND YOU MISS THE KICK
It's a funny name.
Now in a easily digestable, 140-characters-at-a-time form.
I'm assuming you saw that hit on Farrell?
Because that felt good even from here.
And have I mentioned how much I hate Swing Low, Sweet Chariot lately?
It's a funny name.
Now in a easily digestable, 140-characters-at-a-time form.
by Turd Ferguson on Feb 25, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
YES YES YES YES
FUCK THE FUCK YES SCOTT WILLIAMS
SHAUN EDWARDS HAS TAUGHT YOU VERY VERY WELL
It's a funny name.
Now in a easily digestable, 140-characters-at-a-time form.
That was amazing
The strip (off Courtney Lawes no less), chip, & run in.
by TadAllagash on Feb 25, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Warburton, on the end of the match
“We just wanted to keep the ball within the forwards, keep it pint high like you’re taught.”
Oh boy.
Scotland are currently up on France 10-0. They scored a try. This is wrong.
Triple Crown Winners. Fi yn hoffi.
Another good match
Scotland played really well. I listened to it on BBC radio Scotland and they were going on and on about the referee not calling France offside.
by TadAllagash on Feb 26, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Is BBC America going to broadcast the France/Ireland replay Sunday?
But what do you expect? When you raise up a young boy's hopes and then just crush 'em. Like so many paper beer cups.
Doesn't look like it.
Their website says it’s another day of Top Gear, Ramsay, and other junk.
Triple Crown Winners. Fi yn hoffi.
Bollocks
Although they have been showing more real shows recently with Being Human and The Hour.
But what do you expect? When you raise up a young boy's hopes and then just crush 'em. Like so many paper beer cups.
They've been putting it on PBS but I think their next showing is May.
Excellent show. CBS is trying to rip it off like they did Psych. Moffat and Vertue are pissed.
But what do you expect? When you raise up a young boy's hopes and then just crush 'em. Like so many paper beer cups.
As they should be.
Moffat is a damned good writer. He needs to protect his work.
Triple Crown Winners. Fi yn hoffi.
Dydd Gŵyl Dewi Hapus.
Rugby news
I don’t know how many of y’all live in/near Houston, but the US will play Italy on Saturday, June 23 in the new Houston Dynamo (MLS) stadium. This match hasn’t been announced to the general public, but I have it on word from people well connected to USA Rugby.
Looking forward to the revelation of Jordan Jefferson's Wonderlich "score"
France and Ireland with a 17 all draw in Paris a few minutes ago.
Pretty decent match, from what I saw of it. Only watched a few minutes though. Hopefully Wales can squeak our way into the top four with a solid performance next weekend against Italy.
Triple Crown Winners. Fi yn hoffi.
Dydd Gŵyl Dewi Hapus.
Was a good match
The last 10 minutes were quite tense, and France damned near snuck off with a win on the last play – past full time and they had a scrum with the put-in in Irish territory with the entire Stade crowd singing La Marsellaise behind them. Gained maybe 30 yards in a flash and then were forced out, match over. Wales has a pretty clear road to the Championship now – France still has to beat England, and you get the frogs at home final weekend.
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