THE CURIOUS INDEX, 1/6/2011
CHARLIE WE HOPE YOU WERE WATCHING THIS (PERHAPS WITH THE USUAL HOT PRESSED SANDWICH IN HAND.) Florida commit Jeff Driskel wore a slightly askew fitted Gators cap last night in his interviews for the Under Armour All-American game, and for that he is forgiven because he made three unreal plays last night.
He's already preparing for his time at Florida by throwing to receivers who can't catch! That's quality prep, there, Jeff. If John Brantley decides to transfer-which he still may do, since no one knows exactly what is going on with him--we really could be looking at a freshman starting qb next year. Don't look so scared. It worked out fine for Georgia this year, since they finished with a winning record whaa--*
*Oh hush. Aaron Murray is going to be fantastic, except in the redzone, and you can't blame him for that.
RELEASE THE HOUNDS. Man, Kleph's right: you're the only thing standing between us and national shame, Oregon.
"If Auburn wins, I will come back, I will get a little agreement with the Secret Service," Gibbs said in an interview with the CBS College Sports Network to air tonight. "We'll put a couple of rolls [of toilet paper] up there, and then I can help take it down so it doesn't look like we trashed the place."
He thinks he has an agreement, but when the hounds are released you're damn right there will be one Alabama fan who, standing on Pennsylvania Avenue watching Gibbs get ripped limb from limb, will yell out ROLL TIDE DOGMAULING NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP! (It will be the Racist Iron Bowl Hound, who will retire to the Racist Dog Farm along with White Dog.)
WOODY HAYES THINKS HE'S DOING JUST FINE. Nebraska fans might think Bo Pelini is lacking certain skills, i.e. the ability to deal with the PR side of coaching, but he's just like every other coach in that he's overscrutinized. This is an unfortunate thing for him, since he is not only the head coach at Nebraska, but is also insane. Woody Hayes' lifespan as a coach would have been miniscule in the current media fishtank, and if you doubt this two words come to mind: Jim Leavitt.
THIRD PERSON ALERT. Cam Newton is just enjoying being Cam Newton, says Cam Newton.
"I went shopping -- I tried to go shopping -- yesterday and I felt as if there was a memo to everyone that Cam Newton was coming," he said. "It is kind of crazy."
Meanwhile Phil Lutzenkirchen is just standing there all alone and invisible, y'all: have the consideration to ask for his autograph, too. With his last name you get so much more autograph for your buck than you do from Cam, anyway. LOOK AT ALL THOSE LETTERS. Only a signed Kimo Van Oelhoeffen jersey sports a higher degree of difficulty for spelling and length.
BUBBLING MEME ALERT. After three years of solid bitching from blogs, and then CNNSI getting on it, watch the rest of the universe awake to oversigning in 2011. It's going to happen, and when it does whoo boy is Mitch Albom going to have a scorching column up about it in 2014 or so. T
Tom thought he had an agreement.
But it turns out he didn't.
[FOUR SPACES]
Some agreement.
Please point us to the exact period when a brain-damaged Raymond Carver started writing American sports columns. We have yet to identify this point, but when we do it will represent the patient zero in a cluster study of great epidemiological importance.
TEXAS GETS SEXY WITH IT. Manny Diaz will be the new defensive coordinator at Texas, marking the third time Mack Brown has dipped into the SEC's coaching ranks for his DC. Ask yourselves this, though: has he ever done so with such sexiness, we ask?
Manny Diaz doesn't just coach innovative and aggressive defenses at the college level; he makes love to the camera like it's the only camera in the room. There's some kind of hideous Gods and Monsters scenario in the making here for him and Mack Brown. Put on the gas mask, Manny. PUT IT ON. For Texas fans the short card is that he's a great young coaching talent, recruits like a motherfucker, and has put together some fearsome units with half the talent he'll be working with at Texas. So yay, you.
THE TEXAS STATE COACHING SEARCH IS BEING DONE BY EDSBS CONSULTING. Up for the job: Dennis Franchione, Tim Brewster, Shawn Watson, and someone named "Bobby Jack Wright." If you added Ron Prince to the list you'd really think we were in charge of this coaching search, but adding him really isn't fair, since there really isn't anyone else on the list once you class up the joint with royalty like RonP.
(Wright was the defensive coordinator under John Mackovic in 1997. That John Mackovic team.)
LET'S MAKE SOME MEMORIES. If you'd like to lay it on the line properly, this Oregon fan is ready, though he is ignorant of Auburn's prices for commitments. (Not cheap, sir, though lucrative in the end.)
BE KIND TO YOUR LOCAL PHOTO GUY. If you're not, they use pictures like his of you in the paper HURRRRR.
NO, NO ONE KNOWS SHIT. But if yesterday did bring something we didn't know before, it's that Greg Schiano was the first choice for Michigan when Lloyd Carr retired, and that John Bacon's squat must be epic, brah.
AFTER THE JUMP: Don't you people have anything better to do with your lives? (Via Hainesy)
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Aaand Awbren makes the front page of the NY Times
for not making up degrees in Sociology anymore and falling to 85th in academic rankings among football teams.
“Petee taught 252 independent studies in one academic year, 2004-5, astounding Auburn faculty members, who said that overseeing 10 independent studies would be considered ambitious.”
Also how does one get to be head research scientist for the N.C.A.A.? I wanna study footbaw!
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
seriously, maybe they should introduce a pass/fail degree of "football"
because I don’t care if the players are thick as pig shit as long as they can play.
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
Maybe we should just start paying them
so they don’t have to steal laptops and get discount tattoos, then not give them a degree at the end of it. They can choose coming in – free degree, books, housing, etc. or pay based on performance. (Salary caps necessary.)
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Aww now,
if we’re going to do all that then the NFL just needs to fund its own developmental league and sell tickets.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Paying players will result in all but about 20 or 30 college football teams being able to field teams.
The vast majority of athletic departments operate in red. Adding another financial burden would eliminate all but the wealthiest.
So you want a league in which 30 or so team pay for the best players under a salary cap?
I suggest you start watching football on Sundays.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I'm pretty sure no one is serious about this.
step back from the ledge, my friend.
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
I don't know if Anthro gal is serious up there or not
But that very same scenario has been floated by a lot of people recently, without even a hint of understanding that what they’re suggesting is the exact system the NFL operates under.
Maybe I didn’t pick up on the sarcasm (I’ve been up for nearly 6 hours already, cut me some slack)
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
The system is irrevocably flawed.
I think we were all not being terribly serious but the truth is there’s no really fair solution.
I could never really engage in a serious argument about it because I’d end up disagreeing with myself at some point and look a complete moron.
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
I am damn sure not serious
here are the hints: “stealing laptops” “discount tattoos” “salary caps”
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
The proposals I've heard have the NCAA, not the schools, issuing the stipends
by Cantabrigian_UGA_Fan on Jan 6, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
A playoff would provide the NCAA with enough money to do that
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
"Pay based on Performance" doesn't indicate stipend, it indicates a merit based salary.
A stipend would be equal no matter how good the player is. Besides, most athletic scholarships involve a monthly stipend.
NCAA football players are handsomely compensated, up to 6 figures in the case of some private schools. Not to mention the networking opportunities that pay off later in life that the regulart students don’t have
It’s not the NCAAs job to find additional ways to compensate players that are too short sighted to take advantage of the great compensation they are already receiving.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Oh yeah
and “pay based on performance” … maybe I should have also put that the FCA members would have to tithe 10% of their salaries.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I missed the sarcasm, sorry for that
That’s the real problem at hand. Your sarcastic post is incredibly similar to ideas that have been seriously proposed by the media before
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
No prob
I figured you’ve been up too long. Plus I don’t think it would’ve made the front page of the Times online if they weren’t looking for that sort of story. I love college football b/c the players have to have some team mentality rather than the “me”-ness of the NFL. I am not wearing rose-colored glasses on the fact that many of them receive preferential treatment, boosted grades, tons of free stuff from boosters etc, and that if the NCAA and colleges did their jobs we wouldn’t have this problem.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Up to 6 figures?
I understand where that number comes from, but it’s a little weird to justify as a direct benefit at that level akin to pay/stipend… with that logic, you could argue that out-of-state recruits are ‘compensated’ at a higher level than in-state recruits at most any public Uni, when they realistically receive the same benefit.
I guess you didn't see "in the case of some private schools"
Private schools don’t distinguish for “in state” or “out of state” tuition.
They are getting a free education that if one were to purchase on the open market would cost upwards of 6 figures.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Right.
But in that case, is the value of the benefit that much higher than the value of the scholly at the local public institution, just because the market cost is higher due to the lack of public subsidies?
Eh, I’m not an economist, and I don’t have an obviously better way to count it off the top of my head.
My time spent in banking leads me to the conclusion
that the “value” of something is what you can get someone to pay for it. I don’t generally deal in abstracts.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Fair enough.
Just speaking from my personal experience, where my own academic-scholarship-funded college career would almost certainly not have been worth the commensurate extra $ if I had been paying full price.
That does not speak highly of OSU
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Not my alma mater.
All my D-I rooting interests are via family (parents in the case of OSU)… did the D-III route.
Gotcha
Replace OSU with [insert your alma mater here] then
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
stempke, you should have known better
OSU fans, Like most Bama fans, did not attend OSU. Unlike Bama fans, they often did attend school somewhere, however.
/didn’tgotoAuburnhasnoroomtotalkdidgotoFSUthough
by Ardbeg on Jan 6, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What about the ability to sell their own marketing rights?
Shirts, commercials, etc.
by HawkeyeRecon on Jan 6, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Mallet brand scantrons?
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This I think is a much more agreeable proposal
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
I'm frankly surprised that we haven't had a lawsuit brought yet
that calls into question the legality of the NCAA being able to sell the products using the players’ images without compensating said players.
I don’t think the athletes would have much of a legal argument to prevent the school from using their images, considering the school does compensate players (fairly or not, the law doesn’t care if the compenstaion was fair) but the NCAA uses the images of athletes to pitch TV programs and doesn’t provide the athlete with any compensation.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
You do see the video game arguments
I’m very interested to see how those shake out.
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
sounds good to me
:P
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
Uh, yeah, let's not do that.
But really, usually it’s good both for the players and the university if the schools aren’t admitting grossly unqualified people and then using gigantic loopholes to not only follow the NCAA rules but blatantly misrepresent their efforts to help the players.
by Cantabrigian_UGA_Fan on Jan 6, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All Accurate
But you’re fighting the entire history of college football, sir.
You might as well try to eradicate underage drinking on college campuses.
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
It's true we've hit the point of no return with "special admits" and "support tutors"
I think the more striking thing here is that Auburn not only did this to help people skate by NCAA compliance but tried to make itself seem like this glorious bastion of the perfect balance between athletics and academics. Also, a hearty laugh at Gordon Gee looking at Auburn being higher than Vanderbilt in academics and immediately knowing that something was happening.
by Cantabrigian_UGA_Fan on Jan 6, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
...and "ringers"
A.A. Stagg is impressed.
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Auburn's mistake...
…was ever bragging about a high APR ranking, which is a silly way to rank anything.
As was demonstrated, Auburn didn’t “DO” anything to help anyone “skate”. The university had crip courses and students (athletic and non-athletic) found them. That was the extent of the “scandal”. From an Athl. Dept. stand point, nothing improper occurred. No was steered and nothing was orchestrated.
It was a mild embarrassment for the university since those kinds of classes were exposed. But they exist just about everywhere, and will continue to do so. We’ve probably still got them, as does [INSERT NAME OF YOUR FAVORITE SCHOOL].
Organic Gardening at Auburn, FTW
I didn’t take Organic Gardening under Dr. James Brown but lots of friends did.
I attended Alabama my freshman year and took Military Appreciation…we learned CPR and got to rappel. Most fun class ever.
Gas it, Daddy
by cowcollege on Jan 6, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Part of my saga - I come from a 100% Bama family
I hated it and transferred…plus I wanted to pursue engineering.
Gas it, Daddy
Traitor
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
You mean maff?
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
eye hates the maff
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
It's "maffs"
At least that’s how the Brits say it.
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Too many mafffffsss
makes my brain hurt
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
But maff is what
separates us from the animals, or at least the footbaw playas.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I actually taught maffs for awhile
also some 24 yo was shocked that I could figure out his gas mileage in my head for his crappy 6-cyl Mustang…
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
usually I lose majors TO anthropology because the maffs in the physical sciences frighten and confuse them.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Yeah we got our phys anth
class declared a lab science b/c we are nerds like that. I also sneak in some basic stats into my qualitative methods class. FB players don’t take my classes – bwahahahahaha!
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I was on the other (losing) side of the Anthro and Geography classes counting as lab sciences on my campus. The people in those departments do a good job with the classes though, so I’ve mostly changed my mind on that issue.
I TA’ed a guy who came second in the Heisman when I was in grad school. We used to joke about him, but while he wasn’t a great student, he legitimately earned his “C” in “rocks for jocks”.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Good for him!
I sat next to a FB player at LSU in bio and I failed the first test b/c my g-pa died and I drove all night to make it back to take the test. The FB player also failed but he ended up with a B (we were in study sessions together and the guy was dumb as a post) in the class and I ended up with a C. I have been bitter ever since then about shady grading.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
That just isn't right
I’m all for providing extra tutoring, study sessions and monitoring to help athletes since 99% of the general student body does not take advantage of that when it is available to them. But having different grading standards is never tolerable.
My department also hired a woman who went to grad school at USC (w) and did a lot of tutoring for Reggie Bush. She reported that he went through quite legitimately and was pretty bright although not the most focused student.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
No, no!
The operative term here is NERD, yes?
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I know several engineering students from Alabama
who went to MSU because they “just couldn’t” go to Auburn.
Guess who these detestable lot usually root for?
i knew several, too
sickening
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Knew a girl who wanted to major in interior design at MSU
But her dad wouldn’t pay for it…“you can get a degree just as good at Ole Miss,” he said. Fool didn’t understand that theater design is not the same thing OR accredited the same way. She floundered in design until giving up and going back to Ole Miss for a pharmacy degree (the dad’s a pharmacist and looking to hand the store down…I think he totally intended to steer her that way).
Yes, I live in Starkville...WHO did I piss off in a past life?
by Queen Hoka-Hotty-Toddy on Jan 6, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
You never took Dr. James Brown!?!?!?
Then you missed out on a vital portion of the Auburn experience my friend. To this day I live in fear that the Pop Quiz Man is going to get me.
"Another day in which to excel" ~ Erk Russell.
by AUTigerGSUEagle on Jan 6, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
He once told our class
That he tried to resist the Pop Quiz Man, but Mr. Pop Quiz Man pulled a gun on him so he had no choice.
Much easier to ignore the questionable quality of things that are covered in cheese.
The Hardest Working Man in Horticulture
Organic Gardening was one of my favorite classes at Auburn. I actually learned a lot in that class, despite being under constant threat of the Pop Quiz Man and his sawed-off.
by Oglethorpe's Revenge on Jan 6, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
No escaping the Pop Quiz Man.
Took organic gardening one of the last semesters I was there. Wish I had time to take one of the Labs tied to the class. Still use a lot of that info now with my home garden.
by Terry Bowden's Shoe Lifts on Jan 6, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough, it was more of an existing loophole than something the AD cooked up
That said I have a suspicion the Sociology professors would not bend over backwards to offer independent-study classes well beyond reasonable limit if the students weren’t also leading Auburn to an undefeated season.
by Cantabrigian_UGA_Fan on Jan 6, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
/bets house on Auburn baskeball game
//loses
///bets another house on over
////loses
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Some times there just aren't enough houses
/showsselfout

by Ardbeg on Jan 6, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is why I try not get myself too worked up when ND struggles
ND has the best graduation rate among NCAA D1 Football teams at 94%. Having gone to tough classes with football players, I know in my heart that we don’t inflate those numbers.
Sometimes we have to remember that these are kids, and the vast majority of them will not become rich pro athletes. Letting a kid “skate” does a disservice to the kid and eventually as the Auburn story shows, it comes back to bite you in tail.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
The valedictorian of my high school walked on to Notre Dame and he says the academics are legit for athletes
which I completely believe. However, one of my professors told me that notre dame is the only school in which she had friends who were forced to rescind charges of plagiarism against football players.
"Put a smile on your face, murder in your heart, and lets go kick these fuckers in the mouth" - Dick Bumpas
by Truffle Shuffle on Jan 6, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
If you're trying to make a classless joke regarding the Seeburg case, I'll take the high road and avoid it
If you’re being serious and your friend told you that, then your friend has no idea about the disciplinary procedures of ND.
They kick high profile athletes out of school for actions that most schools would only issue minor punishments for. (See McAlarney, Kyle and Yeatman, Will)
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Yes, but
they let the coaching staff commit criminally negligent homicide on undergraduate football assistants without so much as raising an eyebrow. So, on average, maybe the discipline isn’t quite “all that.”
I'm not going to debate this again
But you’ll find that nearly every member of the ND alumni (at least that I’ve spoken with) has stated that if Kelly is found to be negligent in what is an ongoing investigation he should be fired and fired swiftly.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Not intended to be a classless joke at all, nor do I see how you would connect rape and plagiarism
From what I can tell, Yeatman and McAlarney were kicked out for alcohol and weed, respectively. Those aren’t the same as a plagiarism charge. The school can control the plagiarism charge and get rid of it before anyone else knows of it. For all we know, BYU kicks out athletes for weed and pre-marital sex and looks tough and stringent from the outside, but it could be rotten to the core academically. I’m not saying BYU is like this in anyway, just that its another example of a school with very strict standards for its athletes, and student body in general.
"Put a smile on your face, murder in your heart, and lets go kick these fuckers in the mouth" - Dick Bumpas
by Truffle Shuffle on Jan 6, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe what you're saying did happen, it's been my actual experience ND and it's some times draconian
disciplinary system probably doesn’t allow that to happen. We’ll have to agree to disagree because neither of us has any proof.
I made the connection to the Seeburg case because it’s been brought up nearly everytime ND has been in the past couple months, and the reporting has been incredibly one sided. (Evidenced by your use of the word rape, when the criminal complaint filed actually accused the player of grabbing her breast, but the Chicago Tribune called it rape, so it’s going to be rape from here on out I guess.) People seem to enjoy making light of a terrible situation, and I’m beginning to get very sensative about it.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
The beauty of the whole plagiarism thing at any school,
from a crooked administration or coach POV, is that no one can prove anything.
"Put a smile on your face, murder in your heart, and lets go kick these fuckers in the mouth" - Dick Bumpas
by Truffle Shuffle on Jan 6, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
And the beauty of using said accusation to denigrate a University
is no one can prove that you’re wrong
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Why Vanderbilt?
Stanford seems to be providing a good benchmark (although I guess the issue is that there are only so many smart and athletic people around)
by Cantabrigian_UGA_Fan on Jan 6, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I bet Stanford cheats like mofo's
They’re just smart enough to figure out how to do it without being caught.
Stanford is just committed to athletics.
They win the director’s cup nearly every year and they have powerhouse programs in more than a few non-rev sports. Vandy doesn’t even have an athletic director, although hiring one would lead me to believe they are (finally) committed to athletic success.
St Vince thinks you are smokin crack
/Jan Kempd
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
Oh, I realize it's not just Auburn, and not even the SEC
(Although not being an alumnus I don’t have that much of a vested stake in UGA’s dumbest, unlike, say, Reggie Ball’s sprained cerebrum and other follies that some of our Tech alumni should be concerned about)
by Cantabrigian_UGA_Fan on Jan 6, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Reggie Ball graduated
He got ineligible, missed the bowl game, then caught back up and graduated. Dont see the problem.
We had our own problem in the late 90s, early 00s (which led to probation and then flunkgate). But Reggie wasnt an academic problem. He was the system working correctly.
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
Except for the minor fact he couldn't count to 5.
At an engineering school.
(On the plus side, we now know how NASA lost the Mars rover…)
My only argument is you're stupid.
by boddagettaflyer on Jan 6, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I blame Reggie for Pluto not being
a planet anymore.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
had to

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Big 8 officials cant count to 4.
He is one better than them.
Plus, I blame Patrick Nix.
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
The M-Train!
Choo-choo!
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Compared to some schools parks & rec majors
M-train has nothing to be embarrassed about.
Not to mention “General Studies”.
Tech management majors still have to take a year of calculus, sure its not engineering calculus, but its more than many schools require.
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
---
Sorry, had to. Seriously though, is the next topic going to be the proper playoff format for college football?
i was thinking
about looking for a “buzzkill” image but Ron Jeremy dressed as Mario is sufficiently horrifying enough to hopefully change the topic, thx.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
stranger danger
that guy looks like a total paedo
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
I was going to make a joke
about whether “paedo” was Italian for “pedophile”.
Then I looked it up. My personal lexicon just increased by 1.
It's like "guido"
but with less GTL
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
lolll
happy to help
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
New year = starting a fresh list of people who can eat a hot bowl of dicks.
People get jumpy first thing in the AM
I just wanted to point out that a prof taught almost 300 independent studies in a year!!! How did that not raise a red flag with anyone? I’m not supposed to teach more than 2!
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Obviously you're not trying hard enough
I respect anyone in academia right now. It’s brutal.
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
I was actually told this year to stop taking IS students
and focus on publications
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
The old "publish or perish" ultimatum, huh?
Get yourself a nice little cottage out on Lake murray and write.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Hah!
I was just telling my parents I want to go live on a houseboat. I am going to MX this semester for research and to catch up on writing.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
If I might enquire, what topic(s) are you researching?
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Nah, then I'd be in Key West
reproductive healthcare among MX women in MX and the US
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Oh that should be interesting
A friend of mine did some studies for the CDC comparing what MX, MX-nationals, Asians, and WASPs wanted in their reproductive healthcare and what they would pursue. Interesting findings.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Latina Paradox up in this MF! I enjoy it.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
It's really rough on senior faculty
Someone very close to me is going through hell right now because the school is doing everything in their power to get rid of her a year before she earns her pension to balance the budget. Scheduling back-to-back classes at opposite ends of campus, sending threatening emails, screaming during faculty meetings, calling at all hours of the day. Awful, unethical stuff.
I’ve always thought the promise of academia was to work your ass off to make tenure, then lead a quietly productive and free life, contributing but not under the gun. Shame that this economy puts even that at stake.
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
Yeah I'm not staking my future in academia
I enjoy it now but at the end of the day it’s a job and I can do something else. That is rough.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
That's a really unusual case
My guess is there is a big personal conflict component (probably with a department chair) to that story as well.
Tenure means you can pretty much tell anybody to fuck off.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Tenure.
Must be nice. What a concept. The rest of the working world collectively makes a DWM.
"It's not gonna be free this time."
Tenure
in these days of the wrongful termination lawsuit it really isn’t that different that jobs in many organizations, especially a unionized one.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Wrongful Termination?
I live in an “employment at will” state. There needs to be no justification from either side for ending an employment relationship. Ain’t nobody getting sued for Wrongful termination here. Workplace discrimination sure, but that’s a hell of a lot harder to prove
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I’m not saying it is right, or better, but it is a fact of life in many places.
Anyway, zzgator is certainly right, tenure is nice. Academia has its plusses and minuses, but stability and security is a huge plus.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
A friend just finished a PhD in business.
He chose that over law school because “the reading and workload are about the same and you have a guaranteed 6-figure salary right out of school.”
The con? He’s moving to Toledo because that’s the best job available. Guess who isn’t visiting him there. Give up? Its me!
Trust me
There are wrongful termination cases in at-will states, also. They’re really parallel tracks with workplace discrimination cases.
/mostly bullshit cases
//full employment for evil lawyers like me.
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
Union
Generally, a union employee can’t be fired unless there’s “good cause” for termination. I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, that a tenured professor can be fired for cause as well.
Color me liberal, but I don’t think an arrangement in which an employer cannot terminate an employee for completely arbitrary reasons is egregiously wrong.
by SanDiegoDevil on Jan 6, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Sady, it's not that unusual in this economy
In states with budget shortfalls, severe cuts at state U are the norm for keeping the balance sheet pretty. And way to do this with the least number of firings is to get the senior faculty who earn the most money and are near getting expensive pensions. This is particularly true in states with recently elected governors who are decidedly anti-spending.
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
Sigh...
It isn’t you. What saddens me is that I’ll see this conversation fortnightly in this and other similar forums until September.
College football is flawed, fuck it. Isn’t that what makes it so gosh darn entertaining in the first place? If I wanted to see paid players who weren’t cheating or making back room cloak and dagger deals with shady businessmen I’d watch football on Sundays.
that last sentence
is deliciously ironic
"Well as we say, a punt is the most important play in football."
Word
Where would “I Wish Today was Saturday” be without Cammy Cam etc.???
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
that guy died not long ago
cant remember his name, though
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
self reply....
Lou Albano
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
thats goddamn ron jeremy
now think about the princess. now all your childhood memories are ruined.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
??!?
Captain Lou Albano!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
i'd look for a ron jeremy pic for you
but uh….yea…no. DO NOT TYPE INTO GIS
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Just let CC have the delusion of Lou Albano
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
this is the guy i was referring to

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
/goes to google
/safesearch to “strict”, types ron jeremy

here’s another one of him dressed like mario

At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
hmph
ok, ok. wasnt really arguing, its just tha Ol Lou was the live action Mario on the cartoon back in the late 80’s early 90’s (whenever it was)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I'll see your Ron Jeremy Mario
And raise you a Mike Sherman Mario

by Dr. Norris Camacho on Jan 6, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
how...effeminate.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Different Auburn brain-fail made the NY Daily News
If the professors don’t even understand the books they are supposed to teach, how can we expect them to produce educated students.
The correct (and easy) reply of a department head to this complaint is, “Maybe you are in the wrong field.”
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
I suppose the test for me is this:
Can you replace each and every one of the 219 uses of the word ‘nigger’ with the word "slave’ and still reach the same appreciation for Huck coming to see Jim as a good and worth man instead of just a piece of chattel?
I think you could, and I think that would make the book more approachable to a younger audience.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s bullshit and a-historical.
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I would agree with MtnEer
But the crux of this issue is simply this “Does ‘slave’ have the same negative connotation as ‘nigger’?”
I would argue that it does, but I’m from Wisconsin and we don’t cling to hateful imagery out of a misguided sense of “history” so I’m probably not the person to ask about this.
You can separate the historical from the hateful if that is truly your intention, but don’t expect everyone else to ignore that hate that was part of that history. See also the Iron Cross, the Swasticka, etc.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Just realized how easily that could turn into the age old "Stars and Bars" debate
didn’t mean for that.
Was free associating my thoughts there and clicked post instead of preview. Meant to delete everything after I would argue that it does.
I’ve been spending too much time debating the whole “Nazi imagery in MMA fashion” thing that’s been raging and got stuck on the thought.
I apologize.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Just out of curiosity
Wasn’t the Iron Cross a very high award in the Wehrmacht in pre-Nazi Germany or am I making that up?
Exactly the point I was making with the "if you want to remove the historical from the hate..."
Yes, it was used pre WWI I believe, and it was reinstated in 1957 for certain units (I have a few German friends who hate that it is still used in their military).
There is a historical basis for it, and it is well known enough that the Iron Cross alone is usually not considered hateful (see West Coast Choppers, etc) but the debate that sprung up was over a Silverstar (a lower cost version of Affliction) had Clay Guida whom they sponsor, wear a T-Shirt in a photoshoot that contained a skull and crossbones very similiar to the Totenkopf, WWII era fighter planes, the Iron Cross, and the SS Silverstar logo looking very similiar to the SS lighting bolts.
Now that Guida got pissed and they are getting in trouble they are trying to say they “weren’t using Nazi imagery” and the people that believe that are trotting out the “those symbols existed before the Nazi’s” argument
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Right
But I just meant that the Iron Cross itself is left over from the Teutonic Knights in the middle ages and was the highest form of honor in the Kaiser’s army.
If I’m not mistaken many German Jewish war heroes in WWI won it.
It’s essentially the equivalent to the Medal of Honor and the Victoria Cross
And that is why the Iron Cross on it's own is not usually associated with the Nazis
But combine it with other Nazi imagery and the “historical” relevence of the Iron Cross is gone. It has now been placed into a very specific timeframe with a very specific, very offensive meaning.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I think the N-word is an essential part of the book
Think about how people recoil in horror at the use of that word now. I think the use of the word gives the book essential context for today’s readers, and demonstrates just how unusual it would have been at that time for a white person to have a meaningful friendship with a black person. “Slave,” while an accurate description of the attitude of most whites toward blacks at that time, doesn’t have the derogatory and jarring effect of all the context behind “nigger.” Huck and Jim lived in a world where people regularly used that word with intense hatred and derision behind it, and nobody thought twice. Substituting “slave” just doesn’t pack the punch that I think is essential to an understanding of Huck and Jim’s relationship.
Much easier to ignore the questionable quality of things that are covered in cheese.
Certainly a vaild opinion
And I just hope that this very debate occurred before they made their decision, although the cynic in me thinks that it did not.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Your apology below doesn't really change
that you seem to believe you are capable of discerning my motivations for opposing the revision. It is essentially, ’I’m sorry for letting you know what I was thinking.’
Slave does not carry the same force as the N word, or the professor would not be calling for this change in the first place. The word “slave” typically carries much greater weight for a 25 year old with a full understanding of the true dehumanizing nature of the slave trade than a college freshman or HS student, for who it is just something out of a history book. It does not carry anywhere near the same force for students as the N word, something many students have encountered either first or second hand.
An effective educator will tell the students it is good that they are offended by the N word. They are supposed to be offended by the N word. The students should then be engaged in a dialogue as to why the author chooses to use the word so freely. The instructor needs to be confident enough to handle all the likely responses while still retaining the ability to guide the on-going discussion towards an ultimate recognition of the work as a scathing critique of both the institution of slavery, American race relations of the author’s day, leaving the students to decide for themselves whether or not America has reached Huck’s commitment to literally prefer he go to Hell than deny Jim’s full and equal humanity.
But then again, I’m from a ethnically diverse multi-cultural community and I have taken part in such discussions as a student and led them as a teacher, so I probably have a different perspective than someone from Wisconsin.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I was not trying to discern your motivation, hence the apology
I was letting a previous discussion about a completely separate issue leak into this discussion, which, admittedly was not fair to you or you opinions and brought nothing of value to this topic.
I’m not disagreeing with anything that your saying, it is the other side of the argument I was making, and it is very valid. I meant no disrespect, which why I wanted to delete the offending statements, but failed to do so.
The crack about being from Wisconsin was very trollish. I realized that it added nothing to the discussion and made me look bad.
So I say again, I apologize.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I'm conflicted
I originally thought it was PC/censorship. But the professor’s argument was that some key early passages are so loaded with the word that students are turned off and disengage from the book. It occurred to me that the TNW wouldn’t have been that jarring to a late-19th century audience, and therefore this section of the book would have read totally differently. For that matter, the word “slave” is probably still more jarring to modern readers than TNW was then. The book is absolutely fantastic, and I’d rather see it stay alive in literature classes with this modification than disappear.
I’m still skeptical as to motivations, but it’s possible they are partly right on accident. I also think it’s important that a prominent forward or postscript be added so that a reader can rethink how it would have read without the changes.
Perhaps they could convert the novel
into a “pick your own adventure/slur” type structure. I loved those books in Jr. High.
I liked your last thought there.
I had to read many “literature” books while I was in HS (yeah, for being an enginerd and testing out of frosh English for college). There were some students who were offended by the text. But no matter what it’s about context. The author(s) wrote their words, with the meaning inflicted. All it takes is stopping and engaging the brain before doing something or say something meaningless.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't being offended by it a good thing?
I would think it reinforces every reason NOT to use that terminology if taught in the proper context. This whole thig is about education, no?
Yes,
But they couldn’t get past it. It was the complete ignorance and just the whole use of the word. Like the word was used so must be a racists book. God forbid that we actually read Black Boy like in the next three weeks.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
My younger kid happens to be reading this in school right now
She told me last night that she thinks it is the funniest book she has ever read and she it totally enjoying it. She had not heard anything about the revised edition “controversy”.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Disappearing
“The book is absolutely fantastic, and I’d rather see it stay alive in literature classes with this modification than disappear.”
Isn’t that the problem — that PC morons are sterilizing the past and refusing to put truth in the classroom in the first place?
by SanDiegoDevil on Jan 6, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
half agree
My statement was agreeing with that PC justifications aren’t enough. I was saying I don’t want it to disappear because modern audiences miss the point of the book because the word has changed meaning. It’s not a totally BS distinction, though I admit it’s subtle. And again, I already said that there needs to be a prominent forward/post so that it’s not a total whitewashing.
(Whitewashing multi-pun was total accident.)
If modern audiences miss the point than that's their problem
Although I’d like to think that most readers are smart enough not to.
Yes, the meaning and context of the word in question has changed over the years. Thats the wonderful thing about language; it is constantly shifting and changing. Revising a work whenever it doesn’t perfectly jive with modern sensibilities is not only futile (since they are always in flux) but it also completely negates the point of studying and/or enjoying the work.
You’re not supposed to read Huck Finn exactly as its original 19th century audience did. You should certainly give notice to this original intention but you also need to engage with the work as a modern (or post-modern, or whatever) reader and take note of similarities and dissimilarities between these various readings. Text as ongoing dialogue and whathaveyouse.
Fuck, I lapsed into English Major Automatic Bullshit Generator Mode for a moment there. BROWN LIQUOR AND FOOTBAW! FIRE RICHROD HURRRR.
If the professor loses the class, he/she is a piss-poor educator.
Huck Finn is a critique of American race relations, and anyone who cannot effectively convey that message to a classroom has no business teaching.
This revision is a lazy way out for lazy educators, and I stand by my claim that the department head should tell the prof he/she is in the wrong profession.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
I will agree with your position if we're talking about a college level course
or even a high-school honors course, where your class can grasp those distinctions. I read Huck Finn in the 7th grade. And yes, I understood what Twain was doing, but I doubt many kids today would.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Agreed
For the average 7th grader, Huck Finn is tough sledding.
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
Yeah... they're stupid.
/I was in 7th grade 10 years ago.
//Sudden realization that I could possibly be an adult.
///Shudder.
quit making me feel old.
/in 7th grade in 1993/94
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Jesus, stop
7th grade was in ’85, maybe?
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
You youngsters...
7th grade 1969
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I know, I know.
But when someone says 7th grade was 10 years ago, it’s seizure time!
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
same here brah
and huck finn was tough sleddin’ for me. i read it in…‘02…? as an 8th grader. of course where i grew up i’d heard the “n” word plenty (ohio is one of the few states where KKK meetings still actually happen) but I wasn’t quite ready to handle it in a book.
"Well as we say, a punt is the most important play in football."
WAT
fucking middle school in the 2000’s? that means you were wallowing in your own shit filled diaper when Kurt Cobain was making his first appearance on MTV. Awesome. Excuse me while i go change my hearing aid battery and eat a Werther’s.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yo brah, I saw Steve Miller Band
in 1971, Led Zepplin and Pink Floyd in 1973, Jethro Tull in 1975, and Little Feat in 1976. You don’t wear a hearing aid and I know that for a fact.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Little Feat rocked, with Lowell George. This is undeniable.
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
The Little Feat show...
was one of the best concert experiences of my life.
The venue was the local Triple-A baseball park on a warm night in June. The openning act was Bonnie Raitt and her band, featuring Freebo.
The show was delayed two hours because of a wreck in the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel. So we drank heavily. Once the bands got there Bonnie did her whole set, the Feat did their whole set, then they told us to stick around because they wanted to make up the wait to us.
After a 15-minute break both bands took the stage and played a two-hour jam together. It was spectaular.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Best concert experience I've ever had to was also my first real concert.
In the mid 80s, my dad took me to a Springsteen show in Milwaukee. It was our first real trip that was just Dad and me. We get to the venue, and find that they aren’t allowing anyone in and the place is surrounded with cops.
Apparently someone had called in a bomb threat. We didn’t know how long it was going to take so we contemplated just scrapping it and going to a Bucks game the next day instead. One of the cops told us about a nice little bar and grill nearby and said that he was telling people to go there and he would come let everybody know when the all clear had been given.
Dad and I spent hours just talking about music and cars and girls and whatever. When the show finally started again we found our seats and Dad went to go get some concessions. During that time a guy came up to me and asked if he could sit in my Dad’s seat. He wanted to check the sound since all the speakers and stuff got moved around during the bomb sweep. He asked me if it was my first concert, (I was like 10) and when I said it was, he said “I hope you like it,” Listened to a few bars of the band and left.
It wasn’t until the show started that I realized that it was Bruce Springsteen himself that had a 5 minute talk with men, as I had no idea what he looked like. My dad didn’t believe me, probably still doesn’t. But I have since learned that Bruce personally does the sound check at every concert and he makes a point to do it late so there are a few fans he can talk to while he does it.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I doubt many 7th graders in any time would. Can't believe that was assigned.
Though you inadvertently bring up a good point – Auburn freshman aren’t that different from 7th graders. Maybe I should reconsider my original position.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW I was educated until High scholl by Dominicans and Jesuits,
the two greatest teaching orders of the Roman Catholic faith. I read Huck Finn as a special project book when I was in the seventh grade in 1966.
The local KKK guys (and they marched in parades in my home town back then) hated us Catholics almost as much as they hated the blacks.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
The test for me is:
Are these the words Twain wrote?
This get trickier with translations, but at that point, its a translation, which is why the translators name is on the cover.
If you replace “nigger” with “slave” you arent reading a Twain novel anymore. You are reading a translation of a Twain novel by some Auburn professor.
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
you may be right
But your inviting the question, has the language (at least as to a couple of words) changed so much that it practically needs translating? I would have hated Canterbury Tales if I hadn’t also had the modern version side-by-side.
Yes, but isn't that the point of education?
The modern version essentially simplified it for you. (hello cliffsnotes) You could have still liked them and read ALL of them, it may have just taken you longer to figure out. People want shit the simple easy way. No one wants to try to figure things out anymore.
My father (also an enginerd), told me the best thing about being an engineer is being taught how to think and solve problems. I have to agree. I don’t have to know one damn thing about what I’m doing tomorrow, but I learned how to figure it out.
Same goes with literature. If the only answer you’re looking for is a happy ending, or meteors blowing up, aren’t you missing half the references? It’s not always about the pro/antagonist. Like I said above, it’s context. And history and politics, and world culture.
/endrant
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone wants it easy.
That’s why 99% of the time I use Google instead of going to the library. We can’t take the long way on everything.
(I know this is a half-assed answer, but we probably agree for the most part anyway so I’m clffsnoting the conversation.)
lets look at the time line
Canterbury Tales
Shakespeare
Twain
Canterbury Tales is past the line, a translation helps. Shakespeare? Not yet needed. Until english changes enough that Shakespeare is mostly incomprehensible we dont even need to think about translating Twain. Heck, once Shakespeare reaches that point, we probably have a few centuries before worrying about Twain.
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
I reject the premise
While I can “read” Shakespeare without translation, much is lost and missed. My niece was reading Macbeth for school (probably her third or fourth play) and I asked her how she liked it; she said she was “meh.” I gave her a Bevington edition Complete Works and told her to start over. She read every dang play that year.
This
I had the entire “Illustrated Classics” as a kid. I read them all mulitple times. Moby Dick was my favorite book as a kid. Then I got to high school and read the unabridged version, and it was nigh unreadable.
If a book is truly as good as we all think its supposed to be, the story should translate regardless of whether the language in the book is “from the period.”
What good comes from confusing the crap out of a kid so that they never want to read anything written by the great authors ever again.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
There's a nice middle line in there though
I learned Shakespeare by reading the original text (or something close to it) with a shitload of annotations to help explain the more difficult passages. This made it both possible to understand what was going on and to not lose anything from the original text. I think this is how most college-level lit classes are taught but I may be wrong.
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
I didn't get annotations in my HS classes for Shakespeare.
And I fell in love with it and read much of his poetry as well.
But then I like the maffs too.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
If Shakespeare is the middle line
that is still a few hundred years of language change before Twain.
Which is my point.
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
The middle line isn't Shakespeare, it's providing annotations with the original text
The middle line between “water it down so you dumb kids can understand” and “fend for yourselves, bitches”
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
MDWM.
"It's not gonna be free this time."
by zzgator on Jan 6, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Which tale was that in again?
Oh wait, all of them I think.
Conference homers are the lowest form of fandom. That is why the SEC has so many of them.
for me the test is this:
Are the 219 times TNW appears in the book more or less than the over 9000 times the student will see TNW scrawled on a public bathroom stall in the plural usually prefaced by “fuck”? I posit that the answer is less.*
*May not be applicable in women’s public bathrooms or bathrooms outside of SEC country as I have limited experience in both
ESS BEE CEEE SPEEEEEED!
by MightyMightyMitzu on Jan 6, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Why doesn't that video of
Driskel include FSU commit S Karlos Williams picking him off for a TD? Hmm? Having said that, Driskel is the real deal. Guy is a beast and as evident from the film there, amazing arm strength. However he does look confused…all the time.

FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
Highlight #3
If you want something done right, you’ve got to do it yourself. Goodness gracious sakes alive.
His "get-up-and-go" speed isn't
impressive due to his height. But once he gets moving, he is damn fast and pretty shifty for a big guy. I have no doubt that Weis will have no idea how to properly utilize his talent. HAHA. At least that is my hope.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jan 6, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
God, I hate being a Georgia fan right now
6-7.
Drove 96 yards from our 2 and kicked a FG on 4th and inches. YAY BITCH MENTALITY!
Which led to losing to a C-USA team coached by George “I’m Damn Annoyed” O’Leary.
The “Dream Team” pretty much went down in flames last night.
And everybody wants 1st year SEC DCs, but they don’t want Todd Grantham. Boy, that isn’t telling is it?
2011 is gonna SUUUUUUCCCKKKK.
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 10:35 AM EST reply actions
Bitch all you want about your DC
but if your defense gives up only 10 points, you should be able to score 11 or more. In your bowl game, defense wasn’t the issue.
You can never pay back, but you can always pay forward. - W. W. Hayes
by Crabapple Buck on Jan 6, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
"In your bowl game..."
True. Bitch Mentality was the problem in the bowl game.
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I actually screamed at Richt for that field goal.
So pathetic. So dumb.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jan 6, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
See? See?
That’s the worst right there.
You know what’s worse?
I gave up.
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Arky made the same mistake at the end of the first half.
3 time outs, 14 seconds, settled for a field goal, didn’t use one time out. Got to get TD’s when you are that close.
FSU Football, making bad teams look bad since 2010.
by onebarrelrum on Jan 6, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
If you're a high school senior right now the last time UGA looked good was 2007.
Where would you go?
Depends.
What’s the offer look like? /snark
Seriously? I’ll tell you what I’d see as a parent of a recruit: a coach that’ll be gone at the end of ‘11. If that isn’t enough, I’d see an over-active local & campus police department (bad for my boy? maybe; but definitely bad for the team because there will be suspensions like there will be killing in a Coen Bros movie); draconian alcohol offense rules which are campus wide . . .
We’re cutting our throat on some unimportant issues; but we’ve really done it by not moving on now instead of next year.
I hope Crowell has a productive career at Alabama.
I don't have time for any of this... and yet... here I am. I feel like Wiley E. Bulldog-y.
by Gen. Stoopnagle on Jan 6, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
I told you all that Orson was beginning to pull the strings of the Universe
Soon our time will come. The vision of the future is that of a dystopian world where those who curry the favor of the Fearless leader live in paradise and those who draw his ire are publically humiliated at best, executed at worst.
A world in which a single DERP is met with ridicule. A pattern of DERPs and HURRs will result in being destroyed via some vicious torture device designed by a collaboration of Thujone and LSUFreek
The future begins, will you accept your new overlord, or will your hopes and dreams be rent asunder.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
by stempke on Jan 6, 2011 10:36 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Dystopian world, eh?
Take your pick, we have several to choose from.

"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WATER WORLD
ALL OTHER CHOICES ARE INVALID
UNLESS YOUR CHOICE IS THE POSTMAN
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
It's amazing
In my mind, they’ve metamorphosed into one giant post-apocalyptic Kevin Costner festival of tragically poor writing.
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
Idiocrasy
Water World’s problems were caused by some unknown catastrophe. In Idiocrasy, we bring them on ourselves — which we seem to be doing really really well right now.
NOW SHUT UP IM BATIN’!!!
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
i like idiocracy for its own sake
I like Waterworld/Postman in the same way that I will always love the full length November Rain video.
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
Because Slash never ever plays a wrong note ever?
/cues up Use Your Illusion on Pandora
//bangs head
///sprains neck
////dammit being 36 sucks
"Wer viel Bier trinkt, schläft gut. Wer gut schläft, sündigt nicht. Und wer nicht sündigt, kommt in den Himmel!" Martin Luther
yesssssssssssssssssssssssss
flawless
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
Nanner Nanner boo boo
I’m younger than you are
barely
/back gives out while attempting to taught Rev
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I'm 35 and having hip surgery in two weeks.
I imagine I’ll be trolling here alot while laying in bed, maybe on pain meds too.
I suppose you were doing that a couple of weeks ago after the marrow donation.
/gettingoldsucks
Gas it, Daddy
postman had Tom Petty, that counts for something
/walksrightuptogatesofhellandwon’tbackdown
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
When we went to see Postman
Mrs MtnEer looked at me ans whispered “Who’s that?” when Tom Petty first showed up. I told her, and she said, “That’s sure one ugly white boy.”
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Holy Christ
that may be one of the best lists of movies i’ve ever seen! APOCALYPSE!
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
NEEDS MOAR BOOK OF ELI
My only argument is you're stupid.
by boddagettaflyer on Jan 6, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
this
and Southland Tales, and Mad Max, and Pandorum, and Them, and…
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
"Wer viel Bier trinkt, schläft gut. Wer gut schläft, sündigt nicht. Und wer nicht sündigt, kommt in den Himmel!" Martin Luther
Book was better
/that is almost always true, i’ve found
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Joe Posnanski created a WAR type metric
to compare the quality of the movie to the source material. It was pretty entertaining. I can’t seem to find a link (in the four seconds I spent looking)
by haveagreatday on Jan 6, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but we were talking movies.
I still haven’t seen the movie. Mrs. Rev don’t like no sad endings.
"Wer viel Bier trinkt, schläft gut. Wer gut schläft, sündigt nicht. Und wer nicht sündigt, kommt in den Himmel!" Martin Luther
Movie is soi-tanly worth the watch!
i also recommend Defendor! (unless you hate Woody Harrelson)
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
we should probably add Zombieland in honor of Woody
Not gonna lie. I laughed heartily.
by haveagreatday on Jan 6, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
heh, yep
that movie was surprisingly good & rewatchable
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Book was traumatizing
did not want to see movie
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Don't read "The Story of Edgar Sawtelle," then.
"Wer viel Bier trinkt, schläft gut. Wer gut schläft, sündigt nicht. Und wer nicht sündigt, kommt in den Himmel!" Martin Luther
I thought it was really good. [SPOILER ALERT]
An acquaintance went on a Facebook rant when he saw I liked it. Said it was cruel to dogs. I had to remind him IT WAS A RETELLING OF HAMLET, WITH DOGS – WHAT THE HELL DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?!?!
/facepalm
"Wer viel Bier trinkt, schläft gut. Wer gut schläft, sündigt nicht. Und wer nicht sündigt, kommt in den Himmel!" Martin Luther
Yeah...
I just didn’t care about the characters.
by jokastrength on Jan 6, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I've heard that reaction from some folks.
It’s a legitimate criticism, as opposed to above.
"Wer viel Bier trinkt, schläft gut. Wer gut schläft, sündigt nicht. Und wer nicht sündigt, kommt in den Himmel!" Martin Luther
Note to self
do not read this book….
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I listened to it on books on tape(CD) during my reverse commute on the beltway.
I didn’t care for it. It was how do you say, boring?
I had the same reaction.
Can’t watch movie, but still on my must read list to all my literate friends.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
in fairness, the book of The Road is better than most movies
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I loved the book, and it was bleak. The movie was well done, but it was even more depressing.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
McCarthy was able to make barren ashy wasetlands *sound* beautiful regardless of the awfulness
much harder to do that when you just have to look at them
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Is that Rich Rod?
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
by Old South on Jan 6, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
HA!
Rich Rod as the protagonist of a Cormac McCarthey novel is just too rich. Rec’s for you, my young friend.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
RR: "If Denard isn't the word of god than god never spoke."
i mean, half the novel is devoted to them looking for shoelaces.
/kindoftrue
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Book of Eli was a turd
Although, the idea of a blind Denzel Washington memorizing the Bible and dictating passages about spilling animal blood from Leviticus over and over again kind of makes me laugh.
Clockwork Orange
Finally take care of those darn kids.
/GET OFF MY YARD
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 11:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
every time i watched 12 Monkeys with someone
i had to explain it to them at the end. i’m interested to see how folks interpreted it (if anyone else has actually seen it).
Mon-KEY!

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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I never saw it b/c I heard
it was not about 12 monkies frolicking and eating bananas
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
isn't it just a long exposition on the paradox of time travel?
by haveagreatday on Jan 6, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
thats kinda what i got.
willis’ character sees himself die as a child. so he is in some sort of endless loop (Groundhog Day-ish) where he lives his life over & over, is aware of it, but cant change anything.
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
It's even worse than that
His older self lives a horrible life in the virus-infested future because he wasn’t able to travel back from the future to stop the carrier in the past.
But it’s not really a paradox because his future self changed nothing. The events occurred exactly the same as if he’d never been sent back. The entire “12 Monkeys” link is a red herring and had nothing to do with the dispersal of the virus. The only thing he accomplished was letting his younger self see how his older self dies.
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
by paradox, I am referring to the fact that he CAN'T change the past
ie, if you could go back to the past to change things, once the past was changed, it wouldn’t be necessary in the future for you to travel back because whatever event you changed in the past that prompted your time travel would not occur.
So, in the twelve monkeys example, if Willis’s adult self could go back and prevent the virus being spread when he was a child, then there would never be any reason for him to travel back as an adult because there would be no virus. In other words, under no circumstances can he stop the virus because the virus necessitates his time travel, and with no virus spread to go back and change, he’d never go back in the first place.
Or something like that. It’s a great movie – the penal nature of his time travel, the cassandra issues, all kinds of great stuff.
by haveagreatday on Jan 6, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The paradox in time travel
is when you go back to change the past so that you don’t exist, so that you can’t go back in time to change things, so then you exist, and then you go back in time to change things… etc. The “Grandfather Paradox.”
There is no paradox in 12 Monkeys because his future self never does change anything. He gets gunned down before he can stop the carrier, resulting the exact same future as if he’d never gone back in the first place.
It’s the most futile case of movie time travel ever.
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Assuming time travel exists...
… the past is immutable. It has happened, so it can’t unhappen.
That’s why so many time-travel stories devolve into parallel universe / alternative timeline stories; otherwise, what’s the point?
by Albino Tornado on Jan 6, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I go with the interpretation that either time travel is impossible or it will never be discovered. If time travel is discovered then the traveler goes back and screws up the past so that they never are around to discover time travel.
I forget which SF author gets the credit for coming up with that principle.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
On a related note...
see Primer.
by Terry Bowden's Shoe Lifts on Jan 6, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I gues I am going to have to see Primer
I thought I had a handle on this stuff, but it sounds like Primer will get me good and confused again.
by haveagreatday on Jan 6, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Heck, I can't get past the thermodynamic implications
How is the matter/energy balance of the universe conserved in time travel, regardless of directionality?
I’m totally hoping this entire conversation scrambles lawyer brains.
by Albino Tornado on Jan 6, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
dont worry
this entire thread has been a giant buzzkill.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
post fail
don’t worry, entire post has been a buzzkill. BACK TO DICK JOKES AND FOOTBAW PLZ
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Sometimes I like my intelligent conversations
without being able to punch people in the face when they are wrong
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
yes
kidding of course. i dont think there’s a commenter on here that doesn’t appreciate that we can all take a break from HARFing & ARPing around to have these chats.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
As long as this isn't the entire off-season.
I’m also sad to say that outside of my immediate family, this may be some of the most intelligent, thought provoking conversation I have had lately.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
i have a bet with myself
over/under on how long until someone puts up an open thread for something like a replay of the 98 BCS championship game on ESPNU.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
This lawyer with a chemical engineering degree
thinks we don’t get nearly enough thermodynamics around here.
Much easier to ignore the questionable quality of things that are covered in cheese.
Don't go promoting that
or I will be forced into law school.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
booty traps
I am talking about time travel as a dramatic device rather than a question of physics, tho what I am talking about is not a paradox; its more that time travel is a metaphor for the futility of trying to avoid fate. In other words, it’s not that his future self never does change the past, ie, he will simply do better the next time, it’s that he CAN’T change the past, ie, he can’t change his fate. As you said, the future (what I see as his “fate”) is the same whether he goes back or not. And, even knowing his fate, he cannot change it, nor the fate of anyone else.
Or something like that.
by haveagreatday on Jan 6, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Back To The Future callin' bullshit on all y'all!
It only took Marty a week to get his family from trashy to classy! Lulz.
I really like (and own a copy of) 12 Monkeys. Apparently I need to see Primer too.
Cracked, of all people
has a five-minute-ish video explaining exactly what’s terrifying about that movie. Time travel’s only a part of it.
I mean, who wouldn’t hire someone who tried to rape his wife as a houseboy/car detailer?
by Albino Tornado on Jan 6, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
i mean, in addition to all the other stuff, like redemption, etc
that’s what I took away from it anyway – that even if time travel were possible, you can’t change the past. It’s also got Gilliam’s signature look which makes even The Brothers Grimm worth, ummm, having on in the background.
by haveagreatday on Jan 6, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
i dont think there is a 'correct' interpretation
that’s just mine.. i think its interesting to see what other folks get out of watching it.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
12 Monkeys
Wow, I was just about to pop that movie into the DVD player and watch it this morning. I’m deciding between it and “Donnie Darko” (though maybe I’ll use both) for use in a class I’m going to be teaching next semester
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
I HATED Donnie Darko
In fact, I’m going to go on record as saying that….
Spoiler Alert
If your movie sends the message that in order for everyone else to live a happy life, some teenager must die, I’m probably going to hate your movie
End Spoiler
/awaits nerd outrage
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Hey now
I haven’t seen Donnie Darko, but Heathers is a great movie and they keep killing people to be happy in that
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."-Bill Hicks
by Linoleum Knife on Jan 6, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Heathers was satire, intended to show how we can justify any action if you remove societal contstraints
Donnie Darko was not. That is an important distinction
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
HOW DARE YOU
Donnie Darko is fine, but it’s not great. More than conveying a message, I think they’re just having fun with the time loop as plot device.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
If that's your definition of "fun"
Your soul is even darker than you pretend it is non the internet.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
donnie is dead either way, just this way his death has heroic qualities rather than totally random and meaningless
my reading at least
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Glass half full vs half empty maybe
I took it as no matter what he tried, as long as he was alive, peoples lives were worse off.
It’s only heroic to the viewer, the people in the story aren’t aware they he’s making the choice to die so they can be happy, so it’s just as meaningless to them.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
that* not the first they
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
if there is a god of 'giant-gaping-plot-holes' then it wears donnie darko pjs
i find the scenes with Frank awesome enough to make it worth the effort to find a positive way to interpret the film worth it.
Lawrence Person’s review of the dvd release is pretty much where i pull my reading: “Without Frank’s intervention, Donnie would have died anyway. With it, Donnie gets an additional 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 12 seconds of life in the bubble universe. And during that interregnum, he gets to tell off idiot authorities, flood his school, unmask an evil hypocrite, gain a beautiful girlfriend and finally make love to her. In short, he gets to experience something pretty close to the ultimate realistic adolescent male fantasy of how you would live your last month. It’s his earthly reward for laying down his life.”
his death is meaningless to everyone else, but i think this might make a difference to him.
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Well
I think it’s strongly suggested that there are at least some characters who are aware of Donnie’s choice. Frank and Donnie’s mother, for example.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
The movie was cool when you’re 16 then you go to watch again and wonder what the fuck you were thinking.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
it was so META and EXISTENTIAL and DEEP, BRAH
//annoyed by freshmen who watch that for the first time and take it as gospel
"Well as we say, a punt is the most important play in football."
So you mean like:
An organization which institutionalizes and protects pedophile priests? One in which the titular head made it stated organizational policy to obstruct justice? Or do you just mean the “actual” death and not the spiritual and emotional death of the children and teens molested?
there is an awfully big distinction between a movie, and the Catholic Church
You’ve made it patently clear in the past that you hate Notre Dame and by extension the Catholic Church, but we’re talking about a movie here. To make the leap to attacking a religion, which I assume was a personal attack towards me, since I’ve been very open about my Catholic upbringing, is tenous at best.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Hate is really too strong a word.
I dislike Notre Dame because it is, in my opinion, a pompous and fraudulent institution that wears a halo when it suits its purposes. I also dislike ND because it was effectively funded by the United States Government during World War II to keep it open (over equally if not more deserving secular State institutions). Moreover, its stance on college athletics is two faced.
I was raised catholic as well. I do not know you well enough to speak about your belief or feeling’s on the unrepentant, criminal disgrace that is now the catholic church.
Keep this shit out of the blog
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
By which I mean
Occasionally we lapse into political and other hot-button topics on this blog. But never do we get so intolerant as to go on single-minded, prejudicial rants against a particular religion. Grow up.
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
by Old South on Jan 6, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Uncalled for
This ain’t the place for that.
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
It was kept open at the request of the United States Navy as Notre Dame
had been effectively turned into an officer training school for the Navy. So if your beef is that Notre Dame was kept open by the government, when the majority of its regular students were drafted, then I suggest you take it up with the Navy. I bet they’d call into question your belief that there were “equally if not more deserving secular State institutions.”
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Same thing happened at Davidson
Army money came into the school (which is Presbyterian) and kept it afloat. In exchange, the Army converted two academic buildings into full-time barracks, the school grounds into a parade ground, and every student in the school went into mandatory ROTC and most were drafted anyway. After all that, the school still nearly died save for some perfectly timed donations from rich benefactors.
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
This is why I get so defensive when people ask why ND plays Navy every year
ND and Navy came to an understanding after the war
ND President: “Since you guys kept our school from getting shut down, we want to make it up to you”
Department of the Navy: “We don’t really need money but we’re always looking for a way to reach out to potential recruits”
ND President: “How bout we play a football game, lots of people watch ND football”
Navy: “How many years would this agreement to play last”
ND: “How’s forever sound.”
Navy: “Deal”
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I never realized that.
Though I’m really not searching for reasons not to hate Notre Dame, it is a good story to know.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Seconded
By the University of Georgia.
Speaking of, 1917: Georgia in France, Tech in Atlanta.
/centuryish old burn
ESS BEE CEEE SPEEEEEED!
by MightyMightyMitzu on Jan 6, 2011 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not trying to win the internets.
First I’m quite certain that Notre Dame wasn’t the only school where a lot, or if you must, “the majority” of the student body was drafted or even enlisted after Pearl Harbor. Second, I’m also quite sure Notre Dame wasn’t the only midwestern institution that requested that the proposed Naval Officers training school was placed at their campus.
I believe that in such case that a secular public school should be selected over a private religious one. I don’t have to like the fact that tax payer monies were used to prop up nearly bankrupt religious institututions. I wasn’t aware of Davidson. There isn’t anything I can do about it now, but express my extreme displeasure that it happened.
My “rant” wasn’t single minded nor prejudicial. I read stempke’s comment about “why” he hated a piece of fiction and used that to make a point about a realistic organization that he supports. In fairness, I don’t know what your/his thoughts are on the state of the church. For that, for that assumption, I am out of line.
So you looked for any reason to insult my religion
Making an incredibly tenous connection between Donnie fucking Darko and the Catholic Church in order to spew your venom would be just about a text book definition of single minded and prejudicial.
In retrospect, I shouldn’t have said majority. I should have said vast majority. When the Notre Dame Campus was converted to the Naval Officer Training School, all but 250 of Notre Dame’s students had been drafted or enlisted. During the war ND trained 12,000 Naval Officers. For reference, ND has 8,000 undergrad. Even if ND only had 10% of it’s current enrollment in the early 1940s, it still would have had the majority of students in the war.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
As a (very) lapsed Catholic who has talked shit about Notre Dame since he could talk
Please shut the fuck up, permanently. The Church has been linked to some hellacious things in recent years but a grand total of none of these have been linked in any way to Notre Dame (a damned fine institution no matter how you cut it) or, for that matter any other Catholic college/university. You’re grasping at straws to push some anti-Catholic agenda (at least stateside, I’d rather not talk about my time in Northern Ireland, at least as it relates to this subject) that was obsolete 100 years ago, much less today.
Introduction to Liberal Studies
So I can take any “big question” and come at it from the multiple directions of the physical sciences, social sciences and the arts.
My big question is going to be “Is our fate fixed?” and I’m going to be using books by S.J. Gould (paleontology) , Jared Diamond (anthropology) and Kurt Vonnegut. So I’m looking for a film or two as well to beef up the “arts” aspect of the class.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Any interest in Eternal Sunshine?
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Good Suggestion
I like that movie very much, and you have just given me a great excuse to rewatch it.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
or Gattaca?
a movie called “Lo” might be more off the wall, about a bf trying to bargain for the soul of his gf our from hell
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Damn I love a good katabasis movie
/weren’t we talking about Epic of Gilgamesh the other day?
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
hell, Terminator 2
no fate but what we make
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I’d considered the Terminator films but that is kind of a minor point in a film that is more about special effects. And then Terminator 3 does a 180 degree turn on the point as well.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
I’m also glad that the stopped after “Aliens” and that there were never any sequels to “The Matrix”.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
I'll cosign all of that.
As well as the Star Wars prequels and the TNG Star Trek movies.
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
When I'm a rich eccentric
I’m going to buy the rights to Star Wars and remake the prequels as I see fit.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Natalie Portman
runs off with a Gungin in the first one and none of the rest happens.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Where do you even start?
I mean, is there anything salvagable fromt that mess?
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
First
we start with Anakin as an adult. Fuck his childhood, I don’t care.
Second, we cut out 80% of the Padme storyline. She’s a boring character who gets less interesting as the story goes on.
Third, we sign Mr. Christopher Walken as a young Han Solo.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Wait... young Han Solo
Wait… Christopher Walken… Yeah, makes sense. Needed a minute there.
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
So you're also inventing a time machine
to bring young Christopher Walken into your future wealth? Hmmm… tell me more.
(please don’t let the physicists and chem engineers from upthread ruin this).
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Astronomy major. Don't care.
The skirting of the laws of nature are insignificant next to the remaking of the prequels.
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
When you're a rich eccentric
you have to do these sorts of things.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Very good.
Any chance of focusing on Obi-Wan and Anakin’s actual Jedi adventures. Instead of just getting told about them in the prequels
/haswatchedRedLetterMediareviews
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
You could just get Kevin Pollak to voice over,
and hire a young look alike. Pollak’s Walken is absolutely uncanny.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 8, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
true
which is why i like to imagine that 3 is non-cannon. prefer the tv series.
the trick to any good story is knowing when to end it. hollywood tends to always get this wrong.
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
case in point: descent v descent 2
2 basically says that the really impactful end of 1 is just a dream
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Hollywood ends it when the money runs dry.
This is always at least one movie too late.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
by SpartanDan on Jan 7, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jared Diamond is NOT anthropology!!!
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
OK, as a pro, what would you consider “Guns, Germs, and Steel”?
I know he is trained as a biologist, and the book is written for a general audience, but what would you consider it if not anthropology?
I’m using “Guns Germs and Steel”, for the idea that the path of civila
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Also remember INTRO class.
Can’t be scaring away people now.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
It will be a 300 level, mainly for people going into the teaching programs, but I hear others use a liberal arts degree for going into law school and such.
Hopefully the Jared Diamond or the films won’t scare anybody away. The SJ Gould book I’m using, Wonderful Life, is pretty dense reading by comparison. I’m going to structure the class so that one comes last.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Oh man, Wonderful Life is fantastic
and should be immediately comprehensible to anyone in a 300 level course.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
SHOULD be. I expect some whining and complaining about it. See the complaints from ACS below about Diamond’s book, and that is a much easier read than Wonderful Life.
Then again they were both books I had on my shelf that I bought for recreational reading.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
It's in my bookcase for precisely the same reason
I also have ten years worth of the American Museum of Natural History magazine with his monthly columns in them. I sure do miss Steven J.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
I would consider it bullshit
Do not click on this link unless you have some time at your disposal.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
For a book that really should be absolutely fascinating
son of a bitch, that shit is boring.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks. for the perspective
I certainly see why people in the field have issues with Diamond and his books. I think he makes some valid points. His arguments would have been stronger had he actually finished reading the book.
Given the mission of this class, I still think GG&S is a good fit, but I can see why you might want to stay away from it in an Anthro class.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
The problem, as with a lot of things, is not with Diamond himself
It’s with the people that have positioned his book as the definitive source for how civilizations developed, which is patently wrong.
He has at best come up with a complimentary theory for why certain civilizations have progressed and others have not, but people who read it take it as gospel and then accuse those who disagree as being racist.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
"People who read it take it as gospel and then accuse those who disagree as being racist."
What is “the Internet,” Alex?
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Do not think of white elephants!
Thanks for the link. It really just expounded upon some of the things that struck me as simplistic when reading GG&S.
I remember laughing at his story of a bunch of scientists who failed in a short-lived attempt to train zebras as “proof” that zebras cannot be ridden. I suspect that the same scientists would have struggled to train a truly wild horse from the steppes of Mongolia in the same time period.
If they were really committed, they’d have to eat the most resistant, breed the least resistant, and continue doing so for at least a full human generation, potentially more. For the proper motivation, they and their children should be limited to barely above subsistence diet until they have produced a pool of zebras that can be ridden.
Given a large enough pool of zebras and sufficient motivation, I’m confident it can be done. So is this guy.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Squee! I wanna zebra that jumps!
I mean yes, excellent critique. I had to read the book for a Medical Geography class at LSU and took issue with most of it. We were in a combined dept so the prof got my pissiness with the book and did not try to change my mind about it. Smart man.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Assuming a Clovis timeline for NA/SA
(and Al Goodyear is pushing that back as we speak) apparently 11,000 years is not enough time to select for a large herbivore that can be ridden.
Either that or the original inhabitants of North and South America just liked walking.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Domestication of wild animals is not driven my transportation
It’s driven by the need for draft animals. The original inhabitants of the Americas were the first to domesticate wolves, most likely, so they were certainly aware it could be done.
Most of the civilizations in the Americas especially central and south america were slave based, so the need for draft animals was much less.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Slave based?
There were white people in the Americas?
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
You should read more history
White people were last into the whole slave thing, globally-speaking.
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps I should
“There is no king who has not had a slave among his ancestors, and no slave who has not had a king among his.”
I really have taught history, and I am quite aware of the universality of slavery. That Wall and them pyramids didn’t build themselves.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda hit "send" a bit quick there
’cause what I meant was that Western Europe was late to the slavery game. I guess one could argue whether serfs were slaves or not, but a lot of people seem to think that slavery began with the European colonization of North America, when it was a global institution millenia before that.
And I fell into the “maybe you should read more about xxx” pitfall. I hate when I do that.
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
No hurt feelings here.
I literally laughed out loud at your admonition. I knew somebody would fall for it, I just didn’t expect it to be you.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
It's also why it was so easy for the Spaniards to conquer
the Meso Americans.
When your whole method of warfare consists of taking slaves, it kinda blows your mind when the other guys kill everyone.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Bludgeoning weapons designed to knock enemies unconscious
are about as effective against metal armor as cotton and feather armor against slashing weapons.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Come on now
Give the Mesoamericans a little credit for their use of obsidian
ESS BEE CEEE SPEEEEEED!
by MightyMightyMitzu on Jan 6, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
if Mesoamericans = Aztecs
The Mayans where a whole different problem for the Spanish. They never did really get conquered the way the Aztecs and Incas did. In those two empires there was a leader at the top and once the was taken out, the rest of the power structure fell into line. The Mayans were like feudal Japan (another place that was never colonized) with separate city-states that were constantly at war with each other. If one city gets taken the rest don’t fall into line, they feel stronger because one of their rivals is weakened. There were Mayan uprisings into the 1850’s and that’s pretty much the reason the English-speaking nation of Belize exists today. The Spanish couldn’t control that section of coast because they couldn’t keep control of the Mayan highlands in Guatemala and the Yucatan.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
Admittedly my Mesoamerican knowledge
is limited to an upper division Colonial Latin America class I took my last semester at Directional State University and I did most of my research for that class on piracy, but my point was I don’t recall establishing the Viceroyalties of New Spain & Granada being cake walks
ESS BEE CEEE SPEEEEEED!
by MightyMightyMitzu on Jan 6, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
Mesoamericans means Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas
generally. You’re right in that the Mayans were never fully conquered. But they did abandon their cities, which was pretty much what the Spanish considered victory, they had never been exposed to the guerrilla style warfare that lasted for the next couple hundred years.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I'd call it Marxist
But I’m a banker at heart, so I respresent the evil side of capitalism
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
There is no evil side of capitalism
Just ask Ayn Rand.
Then watch companies make decisions about acceptable levels of lawsuit damages versus fixing products they know are flawed and/or dangerous.
/conflicted on that one
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Aha!
I was wondering when Bitcherella, Queen of the Evil Novel was going to show up.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Ooh! I know!
Throw some Gene Wolfe at them.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
I am an old fart after all
but I still loves “me droogies”
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Gotta go, time for the old in an out.
"I'm colonel cool! And I'm the captain on this rocket to the stars!"
I'm not an old fart, but all I remember from that movie
is the “Singin’ in the Rain” scene and the mindwipe.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I love me dystopian and/or apocalyptic movies
Any suggestions? I’ve got Mad Max saved on an external hard drive and ready to go
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
LARRY RUN BARTERTOWN

I don’t care how badly that picture mocks my beloved home state/team/stereotypes, it still never gets old for me.
"Wer viel Bier trinkt, schläft gut. Wer gut schläft, sündigt nicht. Und wer nicht sündigt, kommt in den Himmel!" Martin Luther
by Go Big Rev on Jan 6, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
of all things Holy
WOW
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Bust a Deal, Face the Wheel
……does that mean Newton’s dad gets the Gulag……?
No one's really gonna to be free until nerd persecution ends - Gilbert Lowe
i wish i had this image back when i managed to luck my way into teachinga class on modern apocalyptic lit last year
though the movies i had us watch were children of men, eternal sunshine, and donnie darko
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
And Pitt's fail and flail with this whole affair
amuses me to no end. I couldn’t have dreamed up something so delicious in my worst rageohol-fueled rantings.
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
by MtnEer_in_SC on Jan 6, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Believe me
The schadenfreude is off the charts in Huskerland.
by Cheeseandcorn on Jan 6, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Terelle Pryor promised to return for his senior season.
As the Wu-tang Clan so eloquently put it, word is bond.
[FOUR SPACES]
Some bond.
Tressell just got bust in his head. Two times God .
(pregnant pause)
Word to mother.
by Ardbeg on Jan 6, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
its....its beautiful...
should have sent a poet….
wait. that doesnt work with written word does it.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Green.
because Wu-Tang Clan ain’t nothin’ to fuck with.
Once bread is toast, it can never become bread again.
by Awesome Bill from Dawsonville on Jan 6, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Supposedly now Scrap is going to UConn for an interview
I really don’t want him to leave, but if he has to go, I hope to hell it isn’t to fucking PITT.
So Driskel's 3 "unreal" plays...
…were a TD, an incomplete pass and a sack?
Addazio has scarred you worse than I realized.
THAT MAN SHALL NOT BE NAMED
"I’ll tell you one thing: The grass at Tiger Stadium tastes best."
by LesMilesEatsGrass on Jan 6, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Point of Order...
WHEREAS, the former UF coach who is now at Illinois is referred to on EDSBS as [NAME REDACTED],
WHEREAS, the former UF offensive coordinator who is now the head coach at Temple was equally as repugnant,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the EDSBS commentariat that said former offensive coordinator shall be referred to on these here Internets as, “HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED.” Dear Leader is authorized and requested to issue a proclamation each January, calling upon the Commentariat of EDSBS to observe these RULES OF ORDER with appropriate programs, ceremonies, and activities.
My only argument is you're stupid.
by boddagettaflyer on Jan 6, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Which I did have to do.
So I’m on board.
Now, let me just go back and edit that previous post…
/ohwait
I would prefer that both be referred to as [NAME REDACTED]
Will this cause confusion? Yes, so what. It’s a metaphor.
third
but we need an acronym. HWSNBN, or SNBN for even more brevity.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
How about
HeWho? It’s like Hee Haw but ever so different.
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I like where its going
when someone gets off their lazy ass and compiles that EDSBS user’s guide, one of these will have to be in the Glossary.
/continues to sit on lazy ass and do work i get paid for
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Let's be honest here
/continues to sit on lazy ass and get paid to read edsbs
by DC Gator on Jan 6, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Objection. Confusion.
For roughly the last ten years, the term “He Who Must Not Be Named” has been used at MiamiHawkTalk to refer to a certain former coach from the late 1980s who oversaw Miami’s worst stretch of post-war football (well, until Shane Montgomery took over). In fact, if you try to type said coach’s name in a post over there, the board software will automatically render it as “He Who Must Not Be Named.”
Et Universitatis Ohioensis delenda est!
the one playing in a bowl tonight
/question avoided
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Well,
Barry Sanders had some of the most interesting 2 yard losses and when he didn’t…
and
as a QB, he is only responsilbe for the the “PASS” part, not the catch, so yeah,
DRISKEL I Can HAZ?? YAI!!!*
*reserve right to completely not wantz by mid October
.

"Smell the perfume but don't drink it because it might kill you." Erin Andrews recounting advise from Gary Pinkel
Open thread for the Tebow pre-game?
I think everyone should have to bring their favorite “Haters gonna Hate” pic to the party and Drink for every Jesus/Lord reference.
that shirt
would irk the hell out of me, if i wasn’t laughing so hard.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
I guess "rape" falls under Adultery right?
So ’Bama was very sinful that night, lots of purgatory to look forward to.
que?
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
insert
tebowcryinglikealittlebitch.gif
i’m too lazy to open my tinypic and find it. use your imaginations.
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
ESPN AMERICA CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
FIFA AND SEPP BLATTER CAN GO EAT A HOT BOWL OF DICKS.
fun moment from under armour game
Some Red Team kids were doing Gator Chomps on the bench, and a bemused large kid (OL?) just sat, stared at the camera with a small grin, and shook his head at them.
Don't know where to post this
But the Army All-American game is Saturday…today is the day the kids are arriving to get all the measurements taken and their high school allowed swag. I have forgotten how much changes between high school seniors and 21-yo college players. You can seriously tell some of these kids are athletes though.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Whoo-hoo! Open Thread for High School Kids playin' FOOTBAW!
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
I know, it's why I'm Acited
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
ANNOUNCEMENT
Today I will be begin a course in NCAA Regulations. I’m currently staring at the watered down version of the Division I Manual, as it’s only 400-some pages. From now on, I’d like to you to think of me as your personal BylawBlog, except not nearly as accurate or correct and with a little bit of a drinking problem. But yeah, just like it.
by Peter Gray on Jan 6, 2011 11:04 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
So you'll be in charge of compliance for me when I take over at Michigan?
We’ll pay you and everything.
I demand either less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it.
/demotivator’d
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Apropos of nothing
Cat from Red Dwarf has not aged well:


Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
unfuckingcanny
help me, Arsenal, you're my only hope. never mind, I'm screwed. ROLL TIDE.
New year = starting a fresh list of people who can eat a hot bowl of dicks.
He's gonna work for the Cavs now
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Rec'd
For the rarely seen Red Dwarf reference.
by little red corvette on Jan 6, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
that name looks like you just hit a capital T and bashed the keyboard
then capital B and did the same.
/seems fake
//sure its real, though
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I think he was the Carolina Panthers first featured RB
His full name is still one of my favorites to say, but when he was drafted by Carolina, he suddenly became “Tim”.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 11:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought they changed his name to....
Tim Biakabutookaseasonoff
um, where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?
by Big_Mikethebulldawg on Jan 6, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Buckeye fans remember him well...
…I personally saw him run for 300+ against OSU. I think this was ’96 or ’97
Didn't he?
Tear their ass up in ’95 which allowed Northwestern to go to the Rose Bowl?
by ChocolateCity on Jan 6, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
yes
he ran for 313 yards, half of them with shawn springs on his back
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
This would be true except
we didn’t actually start playing football until 2 days ago.
The 1-9 doesn't bother me; it's the disparity in gameday fashion sense.
by roger_t_shrubber on Jan 6, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
/SEC mentality'd
nicely played!
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
1-0 against sec bowl teams in the 2010s!
saw that somewhere, forget where.
by Philander Chase's Sweatervest on Jan 6, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's possible his name is also just the gibberish he screamed
When he tore every ligament in his foot in 2000.
by Run Home Jack on Jan 6, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Are we getting a 35 for 35 on the godaddy.com Bowl?
I missed the parade and fireworks last night in Mobile so I need someone to pump up the volume for this spectacle!
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
Parade coverage
http://blog.al.com/live/2011/01/danica_patrick_leads_parade_be.html
Et Universitatis Ohioensis delenda est!
A humble suggestion for the new leadership of Michigan football.
Football by democracy.
When the St. Louis Browns were in dead last in the American League, as a promotion, the owner decided to have fans mail in votes for the starting lineup of a game in August. Anyone who mailed in a vote got a ticket to the game, and sat behind the Browns’ dugout. The fans managed the game by holding up large cards voting “Yes” or “No” in response to questions posed by a Browns employee (for example, “Should we bring in the outfielders?”)
The fan managers made only one mistake, trying to steal a base in the first inning. The Browns won 5-3.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 12:01 PM EST reply actions
Their opponents would have won the game if they'd just started...

… stealing their signs.
Like SBMWV? Try PegPelvisPete! The same great taste of SBMWV w/50% more snark & just 140 characters per serving!
by She Blinded Me With Violence on Jan 6, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Bill Veeck
His usual line to make light of the fact that Browns’ attendance was so crappy was a fan would call the office and ask “What time does the game start?”
Veeck’s reply: “What time can you be here?”
by ChocolateCity on Jan 6, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
One fifteen or so,
but I have to leave by halftime to catch a nap by the lake.
www.charliebaumandeservedit.com
oh hello newwwman.
popping up to see if anyone is trash talking, or see who you can troll?
FWIW, I actually enjoyed your take on the game. The driving metaphor was good.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
If Michigan fans knew something about football, I'd be behind this.
Also, what happens when the “coach” leaves at halftime.
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
by SPORTSGEEK42 on Jan 6, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
So I just had a staff meeting from 10 - 11 to discuss some menu changes
At the end of the meeting, one of newer dishwasher came up and asked, “Do we really get all of our ingredients locally?”
I replied, “As many as we can, the crab and lobster obviously aren’t local but almost everything else is?”
He said “That’s mighty white of you” right in front of my mixed race fiancee. And he didn’t understand why she’s pissed. He simply said “What, my dad says that all the time.”
God kids are dumb.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Maybe also why he's just the dishwasher?
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
First real job not on his family farm
He’s one really hard worker but he just doesn’t have a brain-mouth filter.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
The filter only works
if you know what to filter.
I grew up in rust-belt northern WV: there were all of two black kids in my HS of 1300 students, and someone had to explain to me what a synagogue was. When I think of some of the usages I learned (and casually used) in my childhood, I cringe to remember them.
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I had that same thought process the other day when I texted an ex of a different race that
Bama had beat MSU “like they owned em”.
Later thought I should perhaps use a different phrase.
"It's not gonna be free this time."
If his dad says it all the time, is it really his fault he didn't independently evaluate it?
We use lots of idioms without understanding their origins. You’re particularly not going to reevaluate things your dad says, particularly if he was (like mine) the type to spank you for even mild cursing or inappropriate language.
Like my dad, I used pot calling kettle black without thinking until a professor told me it was racist. Then I researched it, and etymological texts suggest he was wrong. But I still avoid using it now, because of course now I have to kowtow to others’ potential “ignorance.”
Not buying that that is racist. Pots and kettles were traditionally black cast iron.
What does that have to do with race?
"It's not gonna be free this time."
a lot of things that are called racist arent.
its just an easy shortcut, almost impossible to disprove.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
The phrase implies it's bad to be black.
The question is, why? Some authorities assume that it’s because the pot is insulting the kettle, relate that to a generally distrust of blackness, thus infer an a racist double-meaning. Others experts say it is rare for idioms to employ a double metaphor/simile like that. They agree that the pot is insulting the kettle, but say it relates to the fact that most cooking was done over open fires at the time that blackened pots (of any metal) in soot, thus the pot is saying the kettle is dirty. I think the latter is more plausible, especially given the limited exposure to non-whites in England at the time. Of course, it’s also possible that the original phrase was not racist, but that it survived (unlike lots of idioms that became outdated) because people began to reinterpret it with the second meaning.
Ha! I do love me some etymology
It’s basically saying that you are insulting a person of the same ilk as you – it has nothing to do with racism. Let’s re-word it: “that’s like the macintosh calling the granny smith an apple”
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Ohh I totally agree with you that the phrase was never meant to be racist.
though I feel like it took me forever to actually understand that phrase when i was younger, until i realized the fire/soot thing.
indeed

At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Ewwwwww
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
It isn't racist, but some people decide it is easier to alter their speech than
deal with ignorance. I had a professor who inaccurately claimed handicapped was offensive because it is derived from cap-in-hand beggars, which somehow became flip-flopped to handicapped. Thus, handicapped was inappropriate, but retarded was fine.
People wrote it down around me and everything. I talked to the professor about it after class, realized I would be forced to either bang my head against a wall or accept nonsense multiple times, and just dropped the class.
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
I once used the phrase "beaten like a red-headed stepchild"
in front of… you guessed it.
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
well
he/she should probably be pretty proud you didn’t think so little of them as to beat ’em
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not, but at what point do you expect people to start thinking critically for themselves.
I would think that 16 is old enough to realize that Pops isn’t always right
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I grew up in back-ass Ohio
. . . and heard stuff like that frequently. It’s ignorance, not malice, when (as I suspect) you live in an area where “ethnicity” boils down to answering the question “Norwegian or German?” The kids I grew up were too naturally polite to maintain those sorts of attitudes/language once they were actually exposed to someone different, and I hope that’s true for you too.
But now that you have a teachable moment . . . .
Et Universitatis Ohioensis delenda est!
Oh, we had a long discussion on the origins of that phrase
It’s gotten a little more diverse, but when I was in school, there was one black kid in my class, so yeah, kids here aren’t exposed to a lot
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I have relatives in Dinwiddie County, VA
All of them farmers, all of them wear camo and/or Carhartts year-round… And the slurs that they toss around at the dinner table would make most of us blush…
These folks also have rarely ever left their home county, so I suspect ignorance must play into it somewhat..
half agree
but I think most people should be given a presumption of innocence. And then corrected, but gently. After a few data points, he may interpolate the rest.
That's where I was headed
My guess is that one quiet side-conversation about “how do you think that sounds to [fiancee]?” and reminding him that not everyone in the world comes from Monoculture, Wisconsin is likely to do the trick.
Et Universitatis Ohioensis delenda est!
Hell she's half Puerto Rican
it’s a miracle she contained her temper.
/stereotypes are fun and in her case based in reality
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Another portion of the lesson
The kid should be glad he’s learning this near home and from someone who didn’t blow their top over it in ways that could either disfigure his face or damage his career.
Et Universitatis Ohioensis delenda est!
An employee in the Washington DC mayor's office
got in big trouble a few years back for using the word “niggardly.”
To save the trouble of Googling for definitions, it means “reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly.” Of course, some people took it as racist, and even after the word was explained to them they insisted he’d used it because it sounded like a racial slur, even though it wasn’t. I suppose they were proud of or unaware of showing their ignorance by admitting (1) they didn’t know what the word meant, and (2) presuming that since it sounded bad to them in their ignorance, he must have used it for that reason.
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
This chapped my hide to the fullest extent
allowable by hide-chapping, I wasn’t even going to bring it up b/c it still makes me fume…
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
To clarify:
Smoking crack is okay.
Using correct english is not.
/notmovingtoDC
by Albino Tornado on Jan 6, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
needed adding:
/notmovingtoDC-EVER
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"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
honestly the main turn-off is the population density
i like open space.
and hate traffic.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
The new metro line that there are building has a stop outside my office.
In a year or two i could ride from basically my doorstop to my work. Everyday i notice progress in the construction I get super happy. That said my commute is only like 25 minutes each way, which is way low for the area.
Um,
everyone but you?
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
you can take Burbz off that list
I had no clue. “Uppity” has always preceded “white people” to me but still dont know derivation.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
It was apparently a term for slaves
that would talk back to their masters, misbehave, etc. Luckily I learned this from a fellow honkey.
Ahh
Yeah I can see how it would be construed as racist from that context. To be honest i almost never use it and if i do it is never meant in that context, though it is good to know others could take it that way.
/learningnewthingseveryday
I never knew it was racist either
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
You should watch Blazing Saddles
Much easier to ignore the questionable quality of things that are covered in cheese.
Have him read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
I guess my Dishwasher past (part time job) shows through,
or I’m too innocent and naive, but what was he even trying to insinuate? That talk of crab & lobster is somehow snobbish (read: white)? I grew up an Air Force brat so I moved around and saw not just AMARICANS of different shades, but them thar foreignars too, I feel I decently well schooled on various forms of racism, but I don’t even understand what your dishwasher was saying.
"Might white of you"
Implies that the right thing to do is something only white people do. It’s not necessarily the phrase itself is offensive, its that according to the phrase doing good things make one like a white person, what does it imply about people who are not white.
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Got it, thanks
But I’d think that would be equally construed as a put down of someone being a goody two shoes as well as the implied put down of non-whites. Kind of a panracist comment no?
It would be if the phrase didn't have it's roots in the Klan
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
I don't think I've ever heard that before.
Learn something every day.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
If you haven't learned something in today's comments
you’re either dense beyond repair or really, really, smart.
Much like "mighty Christian of you"
Implying that a) all Christians are good people and b) only Christians are good people.
Possibly my least favorite phrase ever.
Much easier to ignore the questionable quality of things that are covered in cheese.
I think it's more an expression of gratitude by complimenting someone who for satisfying the ideals of Christianity
That’s how I took it at least. I don’t think any phrase that promotes one’s religion as good is necessarily damning of the rest.
Sometimes you can scheme it up, even execute it up, and then some guy named Tank bats the ball down and you go home a loser. -Chris Brown
I wonder if anyone else experiences this
But today I had the rare treat (in Gainesville anyway) of a guy wearing a Wf’nV hat when getting lunch, and I just assumed that’s what both the main Wf’nV commentators look like.
Just for a short time, brah, my avatar is an actual picture of me
From a couple of years ago. So, does this match your expectations?
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
/everyone clicks profile pic at same time
NEEDS MOAR OLD PROSPECTOR BEERD. but pretty close.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why is there no burning furniture
in the background?
/amconfused
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Because I am facing it
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Whew!
Good to know…
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
You could pass for a long lost brother of TKK at DawgSports
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
WHAT...WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?
WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE.

ME AND MY BOYS WERE SEARCHIN THE GOOGLE FOR SLAVES AND NI**ERS AND WE FOUND THIS PAGE! JUST A BUNCH OF FAG TALK ON HERE! SO WE CALLED UP OUR BOY PAULY Z. PAULY Z FINISHED 8TH GRADE SO HE KNOWS SOMTHIN ABOUT ALL THIS BOOK TALK!

HE SAYS ANYONE WHO DOESN’T READ HUCK FINN AND UNDERSTAND THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT IS MISSING THE POINT. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF BOOKS THAT SHOULD BE CENSORED FOR A HUNDREDS OF REASONS BEYOND JUST MENTIONING NI**ERS A FEW TIMES. YOU SHOULD BE OFFENDED BY THE WORD, AND NEVER FORGET WHEN & WHY IT HAPPENED. IT SHOULD BE A HORRIBLE WORD TO PEOPLE, NOT THROWN ABOUT IN EVERY DAY SPEECH! DID I MENTION WE HATE JEWS?
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 2:19 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I truly do not know what has happened to this here internet weblog today.
But I’m not complaining.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
We're all testy b/c the end is nigh
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'M NOT TESTY.
MAYBE YOU’RE TESTY. I’M JUST FINE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
/twitch
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry that was the
macintosh calling the granny smith an apple there….
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
TESTY?
WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT TESTY? JUST TRYING TO GET THROUGH THE DAY WITHOUT . . . .
FUCKIN’ NEW YEAR’S RESOLUTIONS!

Et Universitatis Ohioensis delenda est!
Someone needs to give him human eyes
like this

The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick!!!
someone needs to be drawn and quartered!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"It's time for everyone's favorite apartment game: 'Find the Smell!'"
by CoastalCowbell on Jan 6, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I want to see the rest of the tumblr
but i r scared.
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
meh
40% terrifying
20% humorous
40% not that abnormal looking
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Kermit
is high as a kite.
Beat the rush.
by Ancient Chinese Secret on Jan 6, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I consider mean look Big Bird to now be the official death of my childhood
and according to my parents I didn’t really watch Seasme Street
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Big Bird can see into
your soul!
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
And RIGHT INTO
the deepest depths of the Uncanny Valley!
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
That flag tattoo is falling out of rectangle
and into quadrilateral territory
/maffed
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
you try tattooing straight lines on jello
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Ewww again!
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I find it curious that you felt the need to censor the N word
But had no problem letting “fag” just hang out there
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
oh god, here comes another thread
but, touche.
At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Please, no one cares about the fags.
tbh, I didn’t really notice until you pointed it out.
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
Maybe Bourbon_Meyer is one of the creators of South Park
"They've just discovered a new use for sheep over there at Clemson... wool." - Lewis Grizzard
by GwinnettGamecock on Jan 6, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
that was a great episode
most of ’em are.
but i’ve always suspected Fearless Leader was somehow related to Matt Stone


At war with the concept of the Venn Diagram
by Bourbon_Meyer on Jan 6, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He ain't heavy he's my TeenWolf
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Boring?
Or just not about footbaw anymore?
by Chloe Denmark on Jan 6, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
The offseason is starting early.
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
I just keep picturing Kevin Bacon in "She's Having a Baby"
“College is like high school with ashtrays.”
"It's not gonna be free this time."
Add an extra z to your handle
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
But this is just what the past few off-seasons looked like
And on Fridays we get The Digital Viking
"My goal is to win a national championship at West Virginia University" Dana Holgorsen
Wow
I’ve been ass-deep in work all day, and just took a moment to look at where this thread went.
/love you weirdos.
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
Get back to finding us a new coach, Brandon!
"Fandom is irrational and emotional and therefore should be fun." - Wolverine Liberation Army
Fuck you!
It’s a process.
Ah, ah, ah, a pirate first with a lawyer's wasted education, and himself bound by the fiendish ties of a legal disputation.
and Fuck Clemson!
The USC Cocks pay my bills but the LSU Tigers have my heart.
by Anthropologal on Jan 6, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Since time travel and race relations have been taken off the board this early
I figure we might as well go for the trifecta of things you don’t discuss on the internet until you discuss nothing but them. All due credit and respect to Msr. Goodwin.

Fitting that a German would bring this up.
/East German Secret Police’d.
by saxattack29 on Jan 6, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not a drop of German blood in me sir
I just can’t resist a good pun, especially one relating to a tasty beverage.
I hate to rain on the parade, but something related to football.
Contain yourselves, ladies of Palo Alto, because this is coming back to Stanford for another year.
Could be worse
Could be Dad:


Ah, those old unis… and look, the boy’s got his Dad’s old number!
Sock 'em, bust 'em
That's our custom
West by God, Virginia!
by An 'eer with a beer on Jan 6, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Somebody break his nose back the other way
Hockey players and Owen Wilson are the only ones allowed to have a nose that goes in mulitple directions and ignore the available methods to fix it, despite having ample resources to do so
"Ah, that's repulsive, that's repugnant, that's recorrigible, that's retragnicent. These aren't even words. These aren't even wo...what am I saying, I don't even know. I can't go on, I can't go on anymore, make it stop." ~ Puppet Michael Floyd
Pete Carroll's Persistence of Memory nose would like a word.
Once bread is toast, it can never become bread again.
by Awesome Bill from Dawsonville on Jan 6, 2011 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
On January 10th, 2004
I got married in Vegas….by Elvis… to a woman who was 8 months pregnant with our first child….
I am still married and am travelling from Alabama to Glendale solo to watch the game.
/I WIN.
by Board Certified Scrotologist on Jan 6, 2011 5:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs























