Relegation/Promotion
by gtne91 on Jun 7, 2010 6:38 PM EDT
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PrintThere was a discussion of relegation/promotion in college football in the PAC-10 live chat and discussion. I mentioned four 14-team conferences being the best way to do it. Divided Div 1 into 1A,1B,1C,1D. My initial breakdown is based on 2009 attendance. The cutoff for 1A is 41.8K. The 56 1A teams mostly come from the 66 BCS teams, while leaving out teams like Duke and Vandy that arent even trying. It also includes some mid-majors like Utah and BYU. There are some misses, Indiana was the last team in, Boise St didnt make the cut. If the powers that be went insane and decided to divide things up this way, attendance isnt necessarily how I would recommend doing it, but it gives us a good idea of how things would look. Each 14 team conference has two 7-team divisions. Their winners would meet for a championship game, the 4 conference winners would play on New Year's Day, with a plus 1 a weak later. Last place in each division gets relegated, winner of divisions get promoted (winners of 1A dont, but that should be obvious).
I also looked at 1B, all but 15 FBS teams make that cut, mostly MAC and Sun Belt not making it. Seven FCS teams are in my 1B. Yale would have made it but the Ivy doesnt participate in things like this so I didnt include them.
My conferences and divisions for 1A and 1B are after the jump, I didnt bother looking at 1C or 1D. My names are awful, come up with good ones.
1A
Eastern Conference
North:
Michigan
Michigan St
Ohio St
Pitt
Penn St
Rutgers
West Virginia
South:
Clemson
Maryland
North Carolina
NC St
South Carolina
Virginia
Va Tech
Southern Conference
East:
Florida
Georgia
Ga Tech
Kentucky
Miami, FL
South Florida
Tennessee
West:
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
Florida St
LSU
Ole Miss
Miss St
Midwestern Conference
East:
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Minnesota
Notre Dame
Purdue
Wisconsin
West:
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St
Mizzou
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Western Conference
East:
Arizona St
BYU
Colorado
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Utah
West:
Arizona
Cal
Oregon
Oregon St
USC
UCLA
Washington
1B
Eastern Conference
North:
Army
Boston College
UConn
Delware
Marshall
Syracuse
Temple
South:
Appalachian St
Duke
East Carolina
Navy
Old Dominion
SC St
Wake Forest
Southern Conference
East:
Ga Southern
Louisville
MTSU
Troy
UAB
UCF
Vanderbilt
West:
Arkansas St
La-Lafayette
La Tech
Memphis
Southern Miss
Tulane
Tulsa
Midwestern Conference
Northeast:
Akron
Central Michigan
Cincinnati
North Dakota St
Northwestern
Ohio
Western Michigan
Texas:
Baylor
Houston
North Texas
Rice
SMU
TCU
UTEP
Western Conference
East:
Air Force
Boise St
Colorado St
Montana
New Mexico
New Mexico St
Wyoming
West:
Fresno St
Hawaii
Nevada
San Diego St
Stanford
UNLV
Washington St
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Oops, didnt mean to post yet
How does that change anything about the game?
Realistically, schedules arent even very different, depending how many conference games were played. The OOC games allow you to schedule your rival every year even if at separate levels, the criticism of scheduling poorly wouldnt even matter, because its the conference games that determine if you win and make the “playoff” or whatever. Although I guess a Texas/Texas Tech/Oklahoma rock-paper-scissor situation could occur and those OOC games would matter. But that never occurs.
Some sort of relegation/promotion system would help deal with the fact that there simply isn’t a fair and true way to determine who is best out of over 100 teams when they each only play 12 or 13 games.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
The downside
It rules out a one-year glory run after a disastrous season (Illinois’s ‘07 Rose Bowl run, for instance, could not have happened because they’d have been playing in the MAC after a 2-10 ‘06 season). There’s always the possibility that the best team this year was bad enough the year before not to be in the top division.
yep, that’s why the model works better for pro sports than college. But then it’s not like the current and other proposed systems are without flaws.
I think of all the sports in the US, baseball is the one that is really a natural for such a system.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
I agree on baseball
It requires freeing the minor leagues AND major league owners accepting the possibility of a huge loss in franchise value. So, in other words, it isnt going to happen. In the 1890s, I think baseball could have made it happen. Or a few years later, at the time of the SCOTUS ruling giving them the anti-trust exemption.
But when does that ever really happen?
Rose Bowl? Bah. Its not like they made a national title run. If you arent starting in the top 36 or so (so my link below) you arent in the national title hunt anyway.
Also, Illinois wouldnt have been relegated in 2006. Both them and Michigan St finished tied at 1-7 and Illinois beat the Spartans. I would have thought you would have remembered that.
My memory of the '06 season is nonexistent
Actually, Illinois would have been sent down in ’05 anyway, so moot point.
Like the general idea ...
… but the execution leaves a bit to be desired. Conferences of 14 on one level are awkward (a few cross-division games can have a big influence on the results). I’d prefer 6 conferences of 20, split into divisions of 10 (upper and lower). Full round-robin within the division. 6 upper-division champions and two wild-cards for a playoff, or a five-game round-robin instead (a sort of Champions League of NCAAF).
Not my preferred execution, I grant you that
My original idea was 8 9-team conferences (which is the perfect conference size for both football and basketball). However, when I played with attendance numbers the break points were wrong. 56 works MUCH better (8 7-team conferences). I like that better but megaconferences seem to be the way teams are going – hence the 14 team idea.
It's all fun and games until some team gets hugely leveraged and collapses (except for haters and outside observers, where it's always hugely fun)
This has happened a lot in Europe, and could never happen here (I don’t think Universities are allowed to be leveraged and they are legally bound to keep a certain percentage of their endowment liquid), but major, major teams have collapsed- see Torino and Leeds. Leeds collapsing is kind of like NCAA having to take over Oklahoma Football sending it down to division III. It was awesome watching that, because my brother is a huge Leeds fan (funny that, we both played in the Tottenham system). It could never happen because of regulatory law, but watching something like that happen to a school whose connections with good finance are tenuous would be awesome to watch.
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- quote that my youth coach used to throw around, it's been co-opted by Nike, translated roughly it means "Football cannot be total without the win"
As an Everton fan
Im hoping to see Liverpool follow Leeds to League One.
That will probably never happen
just because so many people want to buy them, and the strength of the brand- they may be overvalued, but the’re overvalued because of actual investor sentiment, not owner sentiment (Man U is a perfect example of this, because the Glazers have put up a fantastic number for the worth, which could well be accurate). Their assets outweigh their liabilities, even if they aren’t liquid. I guess the big question is this- are they going to get the stadium done, and will it need to be shared? They finally solved that weird two tiered development system (where one of the academies was kind-of-sort-of shared with Everton).
"Voetbal is pas totaal als je wint"- Adun
"The greatest sin is to spurn the gift"-Alistair
That, and Hicks is just not good at this...
see the Texas Rangers, Dallas Stars, etc. He doesn’t seem to adept at running a professional sports team.
The theory would probably have one similar effect to the Premeirship, in that teams that tend to stay at the top would widen the gap with the middle and lower tier teams who risk relegation thanks to the financial gain that comes from success.
My understanding is the Liverpool cant afford the stadium anymore
And really, neither Everton nor Liverpool can afford half the stadium right now, although I dont get why the stadium share is just a horrible idea to so many fans on both sides.
Seems easy. 3 dressing rooms (Everton, Liverpool, visitors). Two entrances, one facing Goodison, one facing Anfield. Put the gates on the Anfield entrance, the Dixie Dean statue at the Goodison entrance.
And I realize Liverpool will find a buyer before they crash and burn like Leeds, but I can dream, cant I?
As another Everton fan...
… I agree.
Of course, being a Georgia fan, I would also be chuckling when the Yellow Jackets take their rightful place in the Southern conference. (Couldn’t resist.)
That probably will never happen, but should
It’d be nice to see hooligan firms out of Starkville clashing with FAU’s firm in a relegation/ promotion match. It’s make West Ham/ Millwall look like an Elephant walk.
South Carolina Football had been detrimental to both my liver and law school grades.
Another concept
Below is a spreadsheet showing all Div 1 teams (except Ivy League) sorted into 6 levels, 36 teams per level (except level F, which has 50). 4 leagues per level, called East/South/Midwest/West although they arent that at some levels. 9 teams per league, creating an 8 game conference schedule.
Like above the initial sorting is based ENTIRELY on 2009 attendance levels. There would be some fun leagues in 2010 based on this. Some great battles at the top of level A. Some great promotion battles at B (and probably below). Some great relegation battles too.
Plus, if you are one of the top 36 teams, you cant pad your conference schedules with the likes of Vandy or Miss St (except Miss St actually is in A, so in that case, nevermind).
I like this one better than the original one.
Some fun bits:
ND/Michigan/Illinois in a 3 way relegation battle (9th relegated).
The Egg Bowl could be a relegation game.
South B could be fun for promotion: GT, Miami, TCU. Not too mention Texas Tech and USF trying to spoil things.
East B could be a battle, if not the most exciting teams ever.
Yes, Eastern Michigan’s attendance is really that bad. They drew less than half of the 119th team in FBS.
Google doc is now sharing properly
Sorry about that.
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