"YOU SUCKED OUT THERE TODAY." "WE DID, WE DID."

Correction: Old women can say anything derogatory to anyone in the South, provided she follows it up with “Bless his/her heart.” If a man says something derogatory in the South, he has to follow it up by stuffing his mouth with Skoal and threatening to drag someone out in the yard and woop their ass.

Thats some funny shit

but no man can rock a lesbian golf hat quite like steve spurrier…. because if you look closely, he resembles a lesbian

If my public education history courses are correct Bowden did face Paterno at Gettysburg.

Whoever thought it was funny to shit talk General Lee in the video can play a nice long game of “Hide and Go Fuck Yourself”.

That “Morning Zoo” cackle is tedious, but the bit was funny enough. And fuck Robert E. lee.

I hate Bob&Tom. And Robert E. Lee was one hell of a model American.

LitiG8r,
Amen to that. And when the shit-talker gets finished, he can go drown in his own urine.

And Harris,
No, fuck you. Keep your fucking mouth shut about General Lee, you piece of shit. Fuck you, Harris. Fuck you.

I predict a glorious comments section.

Techie,
You are probably going to be 100% correct. As that video alluded to, if you want to rile up the Southeastern population of this country, talk poorly about either Jesus, General Lee, or Bear Bryant. If you do that, we are going to get pissed. And I make no apologies for that, either. Harris, go fuck yourself.

Damn, skip the Ritalin this morning?

Chill.

Good as he was, Lee lost at Gettysburg through his own overconfidence and unchecked ego. Even said so himself, long before Longstreet ever had a chance to write anything.

It sounded much like “I did, I did, but they’s good kiyuds…..”

He also was soundly whipped by Grant from Wilderness to Appomattax. Them’s the facts, and no amount of hero worship will change them.

Sullivan013

MSGTW,
+1 to you. Harris, you are a douche. Shut it.

How many of you yahoos even know anything about Robert E. Lee? He was an excellent gentleman, a good engineer, and a mediocre army commander. Yes, I said mediocre. On the other hand, his two best generals, responsible for most of the success of the Army of Virginia, ‘Stonewall’ Jackson and ‘Pete’ Longstreet, were absolutely superb field commanders but complete shits in person.

Not to mention the real Robert E. Lee would be simply appalled at his name being included in such little bursts of gutter language. He would have thought you were the most reprehensible scum in the country.

Sullivan,
I’m not afflicted with ADD or ADHD, so I don’t take Ritalin. But thanks for your concern. See post Number 9 for my reasoning on why I got so riled up.
And here’s a history lesson for you, coming from a History major. The South does not make it to Gettysburg, much less Appomattax (are you fucking serious with that one?) without General Lee. In fact, the South doesn’t make it past Chancellorsville without him. And no amount of hero bashing will change that fact. Furthermore, my little sister could have defeated the Army of Northern Virginia after Gettysburg with Grant’s enormous advantages in troop numbers, munitions, transportation means, etc. Don’t be stupid. Yes, the South lost at Gettysburg due in large part to the strategic mistakes (one of which is more glaring than the others) of Lee, but without him, the South doesn’t last past 1862. And any credible historian will tell you that there is no comparison between Lee and Grant as far as military genius status goes. ES&D, Harris.

Just remember that General Lee may have surrendered but I didn’t!!!!

PS Peter Warrick stole my bike

Comparing Bowden to Lee like that was flipping brilliant.

That guys gets the Carlos Mencia Award for joke repetition. It was funny the first couple times….

Now back to your regularly scheduled Civil War flaming.

LitiG8ter applies flame to sullivan013’s gasoline in 3…2…

Aren’t Jesus, General Lee, and Bear Bryant kinda the same person? Like the Holy Trinity of Southerndom?

Jason at 15:

Took too long to post, ya douche.

/hanging head in shame

That sounded a lot like comic Tim Wilson. When I was in law school I remember him being friends with Macon’s local country music DJ/meth dealer. Long, long story.

Ah, Robert E. Lee. One of history’s examples of a capable, honorable man in service to an evil cause. Cf. Rommel, Erwin.

[/casually drops lighted match]

MaconDawg,
I’d believe that, since one would have to be high on something to come up with that awful “Stairway to Heaven” cover written and performed by Tim Wilson. His masterpiece, however, was titled “Stairwell to Heaven.”

ProfKid93,
It is taking every thing I’ve got not to react violently to your post. Must resist the bait….. Shame on you.

It is Tim Wilson, writer of such classic songs as “The First Baptist Bar and Grill” and “Jeff Gordon’s Gay”

I heard him on a radio program the other morning talking about how much money we could save on a border fence if we just annexed Mexico and built the fence along the Mexican-Guatemalan border. He said but then Americans would just bitch about Guatemalans taking our Mexican-American jobs.Illegals would just sneak over the border with Belize IMHO.

Yes, Brother Wilson, from Columbus, Ga.

He has some interesting cultural insights, and his songs are hilarious.

Mr. Shuler -

Relax, I’m only being half-serious.

But you lead me to a question – do Southerners sing along when the Battle Hymn of the Republic is played on the Fourth of July?

Lee is YOUR hero, ass-face. To me he’s just the guy fighting to keep millions of people in chains. To paraphrase Public Enemy “Lee was a hero to most/but he never meant/ SHIT to me/Was racist, it’s plain/motherfuck him and John Wayne” You already get to enjoy the monstrous irony of celebrating his birthday along with King’s so why don’t you just go ahead and shut the fuck up now, hmmm?

ProfKid93,
I hear you, and that’s why I didn’t unleash some sort of verbal tirade upon you. I’m chilled, I’m relaxed, and I’m even chillaxed. And yes, we do sing along to the Battle Hymn of the Republic, and we even celebrate the Fourth of July (although Vicksburg residents did not celebrate the 4th for a long while, considering it fell to Grant on July 4, 1863). We do so in large part because after the war, General Lee urged his men to forget the bitterness they held towards the Union and become loyal patriots of the U.S. once again.

Fun fact of the day:

Robert E. Lee was morally opposed to slavery, referring to it as “moral and political evil”.

Grant, on the other hand, was not only a Slave owner, but once quipped that if he had thought the Civil war was about ending slavery, he’d have never fought it. (Lest you think he was all bad, he WAS a drunk. So he has that goin’ for him).

Fuck you, Harris. Lee himself “abhorred” (his very word) the institution of slavery, and he freed those slaves that he inherited from his father’s estate. That is something the family of Ulysses S. Grant cannot state. And even if you did actually know something about Civil War history (which you clearly don’t, presumably because you were too busy busting rhymes to pay attention in class), it still doesn’t mean you have to bash the heroes of someone else. I greatly admire Dr. King, just not in the same fashion as I do General Lee, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to bash King, even though he had his faults (adultery, for one). I know that King did wonderful things in his life for many, many people (the same way many people feel about Lee), so I’m not going to curse and decry him. Read up on Lee, and I’ll think you’ll be surprised to learn that he wasn’t some mint julep sipping, slave whipping, plantation owner that happened to stumble into a military career. And if you want to have any sort of credibility, don’t quote Public Enemy. It makes you look ignorant and juvenile.

Is this the most ingeniously ironic thread ever? I hope so, for EDSBS’s sake.

Not you – and yet Lee managed to cope with having house slaves in Arlington and holding on to the Custis slaves for 5 years before providing for their manumission. So one might not describe him as an activist on the subject of abolition.

Harris:
As a white southerner, I’m as amused/disgusted as the next guy by those who persist in their attempts to keep the Confederate Banner aloft.

Mama always said, “Don’t lower yourself.”

You think Lee and/or Wayne were more racist than the guys in Public Enemy?

Nothin like a good ole race war to get my weekend started. Ain’t nobody mentioned Asians yet. Come on y’all may as well put everyone in the pot!

lot of KA’s in the crowd today, I take it.

NRBQ,
That is what drives me crazy about defending General Lee. If you do so, you’re automatically lumped in with the inbred redneck Ku Klux Klan types that want to replace the Stars and Stripes with the Confederate battle flag. No one posting on this site, particularly myself, wants to “keep the Confederate Banner aloft.” But that does not mean that I cannot defend General Lee for being the great man that he was, or for arguing the merits of his military genius. Don’t you dare lump in with those racists.
And DC Trojan, don’t believe everything you read on Wikipedia. Lee may have taken time to ensure that when he freed the inherited slaves, they would have a place to go, but he freed them nonetheless.

Little known fact. Star Wars was based on the Civil War. The Death Star was the South.
The had clones instead of slaves. And they were Polynesian.
Seriously, look it up.

I don’t give two damns if Lee cried himself to sleep every night over the plight of every field slave in the Confederacy. The man made his choice to stand with a nation dedicated to chattel slavery and, yes, I will look askance at those who call him a hero. What he said is irrelevant compared to what he did. It’s not like Lincoln had any great notions of racial equality.

Shuler -

Like I said, full props to Lee the man. I’ve always considered it a great irony that the noble man who believed war could be fought as an honorable profession was beaten by a couple of shall we say less-noble men (Grant and Sherman) who realized that the nature of war was changing. Although I’d gladly smoke a cigar with any of the three of them, which is as an apt a statement of the weird and wonderful contradiction that is America as I can think of.

And while I understand where you’re coming from, Harris, you need to do a little more reading. in particular, look for the story of Lee at the communion rail.

This is the most profoundly ridiculous thread in EDSBS history . . . and I love it! I am always amazed at the level of ire raised over these very dead white men.

“Grant was a drunk!!!”
“Lee got whooped at Gettysburg!!!”
“Bragg liked to rub donkey droppings on his genitals!!!’

Settle the fuck down, people.

I’m waiting on the ‘Big 10 won the Civil War’ post…

Harris,
He stood for his state (his words, not mine), and he knew full well that slavery was coming to an eventual end with or without a Confederate victory (which he was pleased with by the way, see posts 27 and 28). Even the President of the Confederacy himself acknowledged that slavery would eventually end. So don’t pull that bullshit that because he sided with the Confederacy, he must be a racist scumbag that wanted to beat slaves for the rest of his life. But I do applaud you on your knowledge of Lincoln.

This shit is too funny.

Re: Lee at communion rail: Well, bully for Lee and had he won the war, he could have wiped his boots on that black man’s back before raping the man’s wife and selling his children. I find myself unmoved by the “Good man who fought for bad cause” argument.

Mr Schuler Goes to Washington involved in a vainglorious, vitriol rich, one-man-race-baiting-circle-jerk on a college football blog’s comment section? I, for one, am shocked.

Harris,
Your last comment just proves how ignorant you are on the subject, and it also shows how you would rather remain ignorant than open your eyes to the truth of the man. You have painted Lee as a slave whipping racist, and by God, he’s going to stay that way in your mind. The truth be damned! The notion of Lee wiping his boots on the back of any man, and then raping his wife and selling his children, is beyond ridiculous. It’s sad that you would even write that garbage.

and I quote the Sheriff from “Squidbillies”:
“And a white man set them free…..”

A guy from Collegehumor.com had “Abrahams Facebook”
http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1769141

Note: It was written by an Auburn grad. Looks like the Turner Gill theory was correct then.

Can’t wait to see how far this one goes. Personally the Lee reference was a bit odd to say the least. What a fucking hack. A Custer reference would have made more sense.

Mr Shuler etc. – It’s funny, the only time I’m ever told to read up on something to understand a person or an idea’s place in history, it’s because they were on the losing and in many cases wrong side of history. And believe me, I come from a place where there’s a long collective memory and a lot of loss to occupy it.

Lee may well have abhorred slavery, but it’s a peculiar kind of abhorrence that permits the ownership of slaves under any circumstance. I don’t doubt that Lee had many fine qualities, including working for reconciliation after the Civil War, but you can’t overlook what he was defending, and you can’t in any seriousness expect an African American to react with serene equanimity on the subject.

worstfan,
+1. Not much I can say besides well played, sir. But again, just because I wasn’t ready to throw the entire Auburn program under the bus, and just because I’m not ready to burn General Lee in effigy, doesn’t mean I some sort of backwoods Southern redneck racist that makes love to my pet goat.

Uh-huh. And what exactly do you think slavery entailed? Despite what you may have heard, it was generally unpleasant for the slaves. Shocking, I know. Children torn from their mothers and sold to the highest bidder? Yep, that happened. Slave-owners raping slaves? That too. Slaves brutalized, dehumanized, beaten, killed and worked like, well, like slaves?. Golly-gosh, yes. Did Lee support all that? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say he didn’t. Did he fight to preserve that tradition? You bet your ass he did and, certainly by your definition, fought hard and fought well. So, please, do forgive me if I’m not willing to fall all over myself praising a man who was perfectly willing to kill and die to preserve slavery.

This is why I refuse to learn anything about the Civil War. Is there anywhere I can get a completely unbiased, factual and historical synopsis of The Civil War? I have yet to find it, but hear the PBS documentary by Ken Burns is worth the 18 hours or so.

“Don’t be stupid. Yes, the South lost at Gettysburg due in large part to the strategic mistakes (one of which is more glaring than the others) of Lee, but without him, the South doesn’t last past 1862.”

So, it’s a good thing that the South had Lee? Three more years of carnage for a losing cause is a good thing? Wow. All things considered, I would think the moral response is “too bad the South had such a good General; it only prolonged the misery of the country.”

And this coming from a son whose mother still celebrates Lee’s birthday every year by wearing a stars and bars head scarf to work…at a public school.

Harris,
We’ll agree to disagree. And after having given it some thought, I’ll agree with you that you have a right not to look upon Lee with any sort of deifying gaze, and that you shouldn’t be called out for failing to do so. That was my bad. All I was trying to argue is that he was the sort of man that I can look up to, and that doesn’t make me some crazed racist. That is because he was not the sort of Southerner that fought so he could whip and rape slaves. That’s all I meant to convey.

Holly that is awesome! However, can we please get back to the fact that Peter Warrick STOLE my bike?

PS @52 There is no need to bring Thomas Jefferson’s sexual habits into this discussion.

I never called you a racist (though I’ve got my eye on you). My point was merely that the man you call a hero fought to preserve a monstrous injustice. Whatever his personal reasons and what ever his personal feelings, that’s the truth. That’s no more heroic fighting to protect Robert Mugabe. I think it’s odd you look up to him because, by your own reckoning, the man fought for something he didn’t believe in and lead other men to their deaths for a cause he didn’t support. I’d have more respect for the man, I’d maybe even call him a hero, if he had believed in the Confederacy and later admitted he was wrong. I disagree with George Wallace on nearly everything, but I have to give him credit for renouncing his bigoted past.

Holly-
It’s good to see that your lack of opposable thumbs doesn’t keep you from posting.

Well, I’ve stirred this pot enough. Harris and DCTrojan, I totally get where you’re coming from – I generally gag on antebellum romanticism and rooted for the fire when I watched Gone With the Wind. But I also know that we’re all imperfect, and despite the fact that Lee, whatever his reasons, chose ill when he had to make his choice, doesn’t mean that there wasn’t also something to his personal character to admire. On the flip side, Shuler, veneration of the “noble dead” propped up for years the supposed righteousness of the lost cause, and a whole lot of black people had to live with that. That may not be true today and certainly may not be true for you, but it’s a lot of history for my African-American brothers to just set aside.

But let me be a uniter – I root for Notre Dame, you can all agree in hating me.

@ ProfKid93: You too? Shit, son. You a good ol’ boy. You and me are gonna talk mad shit around here when (and if) Weis ever puts it all together.

Borat can sum this up:

ProfKid93 – imperfection is why I’m not getting all crazy about this. Much as I enjoy my adopted homeland of many years, my legacy of shame is an Empire upon which the sun never set, and the fact that my forebears reacted to the final smackdown of the 1745 Rebellion and subsequent ethnic cleansing by either selling out to the English, or taking their shit on the road to vent at the expense of the locals around the world. And just because you can look at infrastructure, civil service, and education in those former colonies that shame the slack-ass efforts of rest of the European colonial metropoles, it doesn’t change the fact that it was wrong.

Truth be told, the southern states of the Union were a bunch of rank amateurs when it came to spreading misery and bondage – but then when it came to bondage, they didn’t have the advantage of a ruling class raised in boarding schools, wink wink nudge nudge.

I guess it doesn’t matter now that the reason the Civil War was fought had more to do about taxes than slavery? Anyone?

The Snake will Drive Again— Read Shelby Foote’s 3-book epic on the Civil War. Far and away the best (and most unbiased—-presented with purely facts and no other opinion/commentary) Civil War literature that is available.

I got to work and when I get back this place has turned into the Huffington Post!

Anyway, what is this Civil War everyone is talking about? I’ve heard of Robert E. Lee, but I always thought he fought in the War of Northern Aggression.

This thread will live in infamy.
Simply put: U Crackas B Trippin’!!

If the South would have won, it would mean that the Big 10 now would be the dominant conference. And the south wouldn’t be Mayberry. It would be one big Morgantown.
The SEC would be looked down upon as the WAC.

Just for kicks, if the South would have won, where would the North be in quality of living vs the South in quality of living? Would Baseball be the darling of the SEC? or Hockey?

damn, howd did yall get to be so smart?

What I’d point out first of all is that Orson doesn’t strike me as any kind of southerner I’ve ever met — more like the metrosexual descendant of New Yorkers who moved from Queens to Atlanta when the local Coke plant closed.

So for him to say that he disagrees with pretty much every football stance taken in that broadcast desn’t strike me as strange at all, but it does remind me of Lt. Willard telling Col. Kilgore how to surf in “Apocalypse Now.”

Mr. Pelican Pants @ 67:

The Pac-10 would still bet better than the Big 10. The South’s quality of life would be right up there with Brazil’s. The national sport would be cockfighting, of course.

Sam Houston is a punk-ass bitch.

1. despite his transgressions I think Swindle’s a bonifide son of the cradle of Jack Daniel whether he likes it or not.

And this thread pales in comparison to the Race War staged over those LSU tailgaters last year. Step it up people.

TheTSU,

Son, you just went from preachin’ to meddlin’.

Auburn and Tennessee suck.

Going back to Lee’s defeat at Gettysburg……

Lots of things went badly for him, but one key driver:

Cavalry. Or lack thereof.

Buford and his Union cavalry troops provided a textbook display of mastery of the Cav mission in the defense (delay, deceive, attrit).

Jeb Stuart had his cavalry troops joyriding all over the Pennsylvania countryside. Glamorous? Sure. Low-risk? Sure. But his failure to accomplish the mission left Lee blind at critical moments in the battle. Stuart didn’t even remotely accomplish the Cav’s mission in the offense. Any resemblance was purely serendipitous.

These are among the basics of the mission that are still relevant today.

Note 1. It’s good to see my fellow readers back away from the virtriol and see nuggets of thought and value in each others arguments. This is the most intelligent reader base in the sports blogosphere, and it’s been fun (and funny) to read the thread. Thanks again Orson & Co. for helping to make life worth living.

Note 2. Go Irish! (placed so that the rest of you motherf*ckers can continue to gel towards each other with a common foe in mind…)

Scouts Out & Forward

OK short and sweet: Southerners who fly Stars and Bars flags, worship Lee, or do any other of the countless things I’ve seen are FUCKING GAY. This is from a man who grew up in Louisiana, where I’ve heard Martin Luther King day called James Earl Ray day. That shit is just stupid. “Oh Southerner’s were just fighting to keep the North from telling them what to do, or to keep their way of life.” Yeah, ok. Go fuck your sister/wife then fuck yourself with a pineapple.

That Bowden impression is great.

Snake/54: Read James McPherson’s Battle Cry of Freedom, and if you want to learn more, read the books cited in his footnotes that look interesting.

If anyone wants a unique perspective on Lee’s and Grant’s generalship, I highly suggest J.F.C. Fuller’s Grant and Lee: A Study in Personality and Generalship.

…

Speaking of Civil War stuff, I’ve often thought it’d be fun to compare coaches to Civil War generals. For example:

Charlie Weiss / Winfield Scott: “Ol’ Fuss and Feathers” was too fat to get up on his own horse, so he had to be helped onto it each morning.

John Tenuta / James Longstreet: Excellent assistant; excels at defense by sending them all. Did not/would not likely succeed with a command of his own.

Les Miles / Robert E. Lee: Ultimate risk-taker, and it seems to pay off most times.

etc.

I would think Les Miles would be more of a Grant. He succeeds with someone else’s army and after the conflict is elevated beyond his competency level by his booze empowered fans.

Black guys leaving Vietnam and laying down roots in the southern states may also the reason for the fall of the Big 10 and other midwestern schools. Well, that, and the fact that the SEC will literally sell its sole to pay for coaches that can recruit these athletes.

count me as one who would sell his sole for a recruit.

FSU -> Fulmer Cup Points - DUI, weed and booze + falling asleep in the drive-through lane of a McDonalds + multiple arrests in teh past twelve months (does he get some sort of combo points like mortal kombat?).
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/01/31/Parker.FSU.ap/index.html

“He’s a good kiyud” pending