I’m calling BS on this one…Mississippi is not part of the union. I agree with the rest of it, especially the hiring of miracle worker Turner Gill.

Croom is not a good coach. Period. Charlie Strong and Turner Gill are good coaches. Croom threw his players under the bus after losses and blamed everyone but himself. He also will leave the new coach with less talent than was there when he arrived.

I’m sure he could be a good position coach, but being a good person and crying on tv doesn’t make him worthy of a head coaching position.

You can’t have Gill. After more prominent people reject the job, we’re going to hire him at Syracuse. :)

That Kelly is consistently mentioned for higher profile jobs and even his own mother would have trouble picking Gill out of a lineup is a damned shame. That Magee and Strong haven’t even gotten a sniff at HC jobs is a travesty.

I suspect this has something to do with the fact that the two highest profile black coaches, Willingham and Croom, have been terrible. Obviously, coaching talent or lack thereof isn’t spread genetically (yes, Terry, that includes you) but that’s the way stupid people who hate and fear change think. By the same token, coaches almost never move from HBCUs to mainstream programs. As though a guy who can win on a shoestring budget at Hampton or Southern couldn’t leave a pile of crushed opponents in his wake working at some place like Tennessee.

That Kelly is consistently mentioned for higher profile jobs and even his own mother would have trouble picking Gill out of a lineup is a damned shame. That Magee and Strong haven’t even gotten a sniff at HC jobs is a travesty.

I suspect this has something to do with the fact that the two highest profile black coaches, Willingham and Croom, have been terrible. Obviously, coaching talent or lack thereof isn’t spread genetically (yes, Terry, that includes you) but that’s the way stupid people who hate and fear change think. By the same token, coaches almost never move from HBCUs to mainstream programs. As though a guy who can win on a shoestring budget at Hampton or Southern couldn’t leave a pile of crushed opponents in his wake working at some place like Tennessee.

I’d look for Ron English, former Michigan DC, current Louisville DC, to join the ranks before too long. Word on the street is he’s in consideration for the Eastern Michigan HC job which will hopefully be his first step.

Don’t forget Mike Locksley, Illinois OC and disciple of – erm, nevermind. Forget I said anything.

Orson, you misspelled gubmint. No one in Mississippi knows anything about this “government” you speak of.

Also, Lovie Smith was never DC for the Buccaneers, but for the Rams — Monte Kiffin’s only been holding down the Tampa DC gig for the last 12 years. I can’t decide if Kiffin = Tennessee = redaction.

And I shudder to think of what Trooper Taylor having been a “promiscuous recruiter” means. I mean, it’s one thing to get Momma on your side when recruiting a kid, but… heavens!

Bobby Williams (I think that’s his name) who is the former Michigan State coach, was brought in by Saban this year to run the special teams, which is much improved over last season. Fits the category of ‘retread’ as well.

You should retract the statement about Magee and remove the link to the story, as the entire incident was debunked during the DickRod exodus and subsequent legal depositions.

The initial claim was made by Mike Brown, RR’s slimy agent, not Magee. Magee only said that Pastilong was not interested in hiring him (understandable, since Magee had already followed RR to UM). Brown added the details about an “unnamed administrator” who supposedly made the racist comment to Magee. For his part, Magee never supported that statement nor provided the name of this alleged administrator, though during depositions for the lawsuit RR threw former WVU athletics fundraiser Larry Aschebrook’s name out there as the source of the comments. Aschebrook later swore in an affidavit that RR essentially told him that the racism charges were bogus.

I usually enjoy the articles on EDSBS, but unsupported allegations of racism by a university that were totally unsupported by the facts is a new feature, and one that shouldn’t be continued.

How on earth did you forget UCLA’s DeWayne Walker? I’m a Trojan and I’ll admit he does a lot with little —the 2006 USC-UCLA upset should’ve got him hired somewhere immediately. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go now that he’s stuck behind the bigger names of Neuheisel and Chow.

@10, so TL;DR: “I’m a butthurt WFVU fan without a sense of humor”?

Okay, gotcha.

Since when did “college” develop coaches? I thought coaches developed coaches… Funny me…

Larry Johnson Senior has been doing a bang up job with PSU’s d-line and is an excellent recruiter.
Plus his son is part of Rock-a-fella industries…

Selfishly; I’d prefer to keep just where he is though.

There are a couple of guys on the USC staff who could make good head coaches in the future. Though both are still currently position coaches under coordinators who have turned down NFL jobs.

Todd McNair is an awesome recruiter and coach, he’s a big part of the reason USC has the insane depth at running back that it does. And Ken Norton Jr. has taken over the Orgeron’s role as crazy badass on the USC staff. I’m not sure how he is on X’s and O’s but he sure is inspirational. With the right staff around him, he could be a great HC down the road.

I second theniz’s nomination of Ron English. The only hesitation with him is that while at Michigan he had a lot of trouble against spread offenses, and jumping to a mid-major where the spread offense is their last, best hope at victory over the big boys… let’s just say he’ll have to improve a bit.

That said, he’s got talent and I’d like to see him hired as a HC.

Don’t forget that Kentucky’s OC Joker Phillips will be head coach when Brooks retires. I’d like to think it will be this year — not because I’m in any rush to get Brooks out the door, but letting Joker officially take the reins in about a month will carry a lot of momentum for the Wildcats’ next season.

Thanks for mentioning this, Orson. The lack of minorities in head coaching positions is a shame in today’s day and age. The ‘politics’ of boosters and program funding are responsible for this trend in the NCAA, especially at some of the bigger schools. That’s just being real. I’d like to see exactly how many minority assistants there are in DI football, I’m sure its a fair number. Truly a difficult topic to tackle, especially now when most of us are focused on the BCS.

Holly/Orson: Do any of y’all know whether or not Matt Hinton is going to tackle this topic sometime soon? His takes are usually fair and very astute on matters like these.

Its not a black or white thing, its a good or bad thing.
There are plenty of good white coaches and bad coaches-Weis, Gerg, etc, the problem is with rolling the dice on the black coaches, is propping up these coaches who are just bad coaches who made bad decisions in who they hired to come with them.
Charlie Strong IMHO, would be a good coach anywhere he went because he knows what good players look like and would know how to get them, and plus he has been with the Urbster so long he couldnt fail. I guess you could make Miss St the training grounds for black coaches, because if you can have a winning season there for 2 yrs in a row, you would deserve a higher profile gig. Notre Dame was a suprise when they hired Willingham, and even more of a suprise when they canned him for Charlie “Pro Style Genius” Weis….I think Notre Dame will make an offer Meyer cant refuse, especially if Florida wins the MNC and Harvin and Tebow and Spikes go pro…

This is not as sweet as the Bear shilling for Golden Flakes and Coca-Cola, but it’s pretty sweet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01e1EKdtNrg

So much to like: Old Style, Steve Tasker, Charles “Talk to Chuck” Schwab’s son as a starting QB (yes, really).

I feel Croom shouldn’t be on this list; rehiring him would be perpetuating the mediocre retread problem. This list: http://msnbc2.rivals.com/content.asp?cid=652229 is a similar look at potential black HCs. Personally, I’d take out Mike Haywood and replace him with Corwin Brown, but other than that it’s an interesting list. Pretty much everyone on there is talented and experienced, and it’s a damn shame they haven’t gotten their chance yet.

I though this was a website where you posted obnoxius and entertaining information about college football. When did you go all polictical? Ask Jane Fonda how that went for her.
Stick to being a smart ass and talking football. If I wanted to here a bunch of whining about affirmative action or racial inequality I would go to an NAACP convention. And didn’t we just elect a black President, who incidentally wants to fuck up college football be having a playoff?

As another anonymous person, I too would like to tell you how to run your site to my liking. I have no experience, but if you would like my advice you may email me.

Harris makes an excellent point – twice.

A guy like Al Lavan at Delaware State or Buddy Pough at South Carolina State should be getting looks elsewhere. It only makes sense that if most of your players are African American, and there is a qualified African American coach perhaps the best guy for you program is not some retread white guy or a fetus with shoes. Who cares if the big money Alumni are old white guys who wanna be glad handed. Black guys can do that if they need to.

Harris @ #5 — remember, that coach working on a shoestring budget at a HBCU is also generally playing other HBCU teams on similar footwear-related budgets.

CuseFaninSoCal — why do you hate Turner Gill so? If Leach ends up at Washington, Texas Tech will end up with Turner, which will be both awesome and sad for Nebraska fans.

How in the holy hell did Tommy Bowden stay employed, while Charlie Strong was hittin’ the weight pile muttering, “umm, hey, can I play?”

There is no justice in this world.

It’s always already political. Consciously avoiding overtly politically topics is itself a political decision.

Selfishly, I don’t want Charlie Strong to go anywhere. And I’ve always wondered what the Peach Bowl Fiasco has done to his head coaching chances.

i would gladly trade charlie weis for turner gill at ND

Yep. President-elect Obama = No racism in college football coaching hiring.

If Strong wants a job, get him to take a public speaking course at UF. He obviously slept throught it in undergrad.

I bet the man is a smart guy, but somebody fire up his interviews as interim coach.

And, if someone says, “you bring this up everytime Strong is discussed as HC material..”

I will respond that the reason he is not going to be a head coach at a legitimate BCS school has not changed.

He still, “talks bad.”

Fix it, and someone will hire him.

Ok, everyone who believes in this PC shit should probably skip this post.

Everyone on board? Ok, hold on, here we go.

I don’t give a flying fuck what color you are as long as we are winning football games. I’m an Alabama fan, and we have Mephistopheles as a coach.

This bullshit about not having enough black head coaches is just that, bullshit.

At the SEC meetings held every year, the AD’s and President’s don’t sit around trying to figure out new ways to disenfranchise the black man.

The only color, and I mean the abso-fucking-lutely only color that matters in college football is green, period.

How many times have you seen a black candidate passed up for a job that he interviewed for for a white guy who was obviously inferior?

How many AD’s do you think would look past a better black candidate to get an inferior white coach?

Look, I am all for Charlie Strong getting a chance. But if he is hired because he is black, you are doing a disservice to Charlie and all other black coaches because you are hiring them with unfair practices due to the perception that they are inferior and need an extra step up on the competition.

The best man for the job should get the job, not the best black man for the job.

I fully expect Orson to start campaigning for Tyrone Willingham or Sylvester Croom to be the new head coach at Florida if/when Meyer leaves for Notre Dame.

If you aren’t singing the praises of Charlie Strong from the rooftops if/when Meyer leaves, you are nothing but a hypocrite.

Are you going to pay the salary of the Washington AD who ends up getting fired over Willingham sucking so bad?

It is pathetic about what has happened in today’s world. Everyone holds up Sylvester Croom like he is a fucking saint that just took the wrong job.

The only legacy he leaves behind is the term when an inferior school beats what should be a superior school in a year where the inferior school loses to the Korean War Amputees Lodge 847.

:: Waits patiently for the shouts of “RACIST!” to come down ::

okiedomer, I completely agree, but I feel like it’s going to be a long, long time before ND hires another black coach. The fallout from the Willingham decision was way more negative flack than ND likes getting.

If it meant we would poach Charlie Strong (who I think we were angling to get before, but evidently he is smarter than to accept), I would gladly tie up Bobby Johnson in a sack and drop him off the Demonbreun Street bridge.

Come on, Vandy, do you really want to be shown up by Mississippi State?

You’re overlooking one big reason why ADs are reluctant to hire black coaches: having to fire black coaches.

Ty Willingham has proved beyond any doubt that he is not a good head coach, but people are STILL knocking Notre Dame for firing him. If he was some old white guy who got shiatcanned for stinking up South Bend, nobody would be talking about it four years later.

Take nothing away from Mike Lockesly, Charlie Strong or Calvin Magee… all 3 of whom I would advocate for a head job anywhere, and not because of their skin color.. but shouldnt some of the bitchiness in the “boohoo no black coaches” crowd be pointed at the quality of black candidates??

How many are coordinators with successful teams? Its like Mike Singletary doing all the bitching in the NFL for the last 3 years he couldn’t get a sniff, when he’s only been a positions coach…. you can’t go from bell-hop to Donald Trump in one promotion.

An unprepared and shitty black coach is not any better of a candidate for a job than an unprepared and shitty white coach.

I think Charlie Strong is holding on to be the Randy Shannon of UF. A few more years and the job will be his once Urb leaves.

Charlie Strong’s defense gave up 31 points to Mike Shula’s offense and still hasn’t stopped Shay Hodge. Would a white DC with the same record as Strong be mentioned for a HC position? Same goes for Ron Prince and Dewayne Walker. Their achievements are mediocre thus far.

I think it has more to do with the level of failure the school’s would have to suffer through to justify firing a black HC without generating a huge media firestorm. State should’ve fired Croom 2 years ago. It was obvious the program was going nowhere. They couldn’t because they didn’t want the giant media backlash.

Winning and public perception are all that matter in major college football these days. There’s way too much money at stake.

I have heard that Plaxico Burress is considering taking over Mich St when Dantonio leaves. In all seriousness though some details Orson’s article or some of the comments may be in error but there are currently 3 black coaches out of 119. You cannot argue that number and you cannot say there is nothing wrong with it. This is a huge elephant in the room that more people should be talking about.

“As long as he doesn’t bring Woody McCorvey with him”
Good luck with all that.

How many of the black coordinators who’ve been waiting without a call for years see Dabo Swinney get the Clemson job after being receivers coach and wonder …

No, I bet they don’t wonder at all.

35,
You are absolutely, 100% correct! I am so tired of having this PC racial garbage shoved down my throat. And as a Southern white male, it is shoved repeatedly. College programs and the ADs of such programs want to hire coaches that will win, because wins translate into revenue. It doesn’t matter if the coach is red with purple polka dots; if he can win, the ADs will hire him, and the fans will adore him. Orson, seriously, what is your deal with being the Race Police? Give it a rest, please. You may be stricken with some sort of “white guilt” typical of the journalist profession, but that doesn’t mean the rest of us feel the same way. And it also doesn’t mean that you are more “enlightened” or “tolerant” than all of us rednecks down here in lowly Mississippi, a state you seem to love demeaning. You do know that many black people live in Mississippi, do you not? As Coach Bryant once said, “I don’t have black players, and I don’t have white players. I just have football players.” That’s how I feel about coaches. Black, white, or green with blue polka dots, a good coach should be hired, and a bad coach should be fired. Race has no business in the discussion. It’s about the man, not about his skin color.

I won’t be asking that Charlie Strong be UF’s Randy Shannon or the next Urbinator at UF simply because UF should not (especially after [NAME REDACTED] be a proving ground for a coordinator to evolve into a head coach. That being said, where are the mid-level black coaches that could then move up into the top-flight jobs? Besides Turner Gill?

Crap, I just realized…my name! WTF do I do with my username? It’s useless now!

So what do you name a gal who bleeds Ole Miss red and blue, but still has rooting interests in Alabama, Southern Miss and MS State (by virtue of 2 masters degrees and a paycheck)?

Oh, and if you want more black coaches in NCAA football it’s going to take more recruiting (and I don’t mean h.s. players) from the bottom up…getting some of these kids who won’t be NFL draftees into grad programs instead. I expect the Nix brothers will someday go on to head coaching positions, though likely to lower-tier schools before hitting the big leagues of the SEC, Pac-10, Big 12, etc.

And Zibby, you hit the nail on the head…they don’t hire black coaches because they might have to FIRE black coaches. Like I used to say… I’ll never get married; then I can’t get divorced!

Like I USED to say, anyway…

Trolls of assorted stripes:

One, please don’t telegraph your talking points without acknowledging the disproportionately small percentage of black coaches relative to the number of black players. Players become coaches at a much higher rate if you’re white and at a much lower rate than if you’re black. Fact.

If you dispute this, we disagree on the basic terms of reality. You have plenty of company in this, and you should go hang out with whomever or whatever these people are.

Two, if you don’t like it, read something else. We’re not the “race police,” but unless you scream and yell for black coaches to get noticed, they’re simply not going to get the same shake. Again: half of the players, a sliver of the coaches.

Third, you have no idea what the phrase politically correct means, or that what we’re saying here has anything to do with the phrase politically correct. It is an empty but incendiary phrase taken directly from a tired and hollow playbook of crap rhetoric designed to dismiss facts you don’t want to acknowledge and problems you don’t want to hear about for an instant. Use it again at the risk of shining a big light on your own clapboard verbiage.

Fourth, if you have no humor about being from Mississippi…then I suspect you’re not really from Mississippi, then, or are perhaps doing it wrong.

Complaining about political correctness ? violating Godwin’s Law. Discuss.

41 – I believe the last few sentences you wrote is the whole point. Being a good or bad coach SHOULD be all that it is about; the post takes the stance that good vs. bad is not what it is all about.

You can disagree but the numbers seem to back up the other side.

Also, I don’t think anyone is advocating elite teams hire a black man with no head coaching experience. What would make sense would be for a “mid-level” program to give a proven black coordinator a chance to prove whether or not he is a good coach.

Allow me to throw some further analysis in with this hate soup I’m brewing:

Out of the 25 coaches on that list that was linked, only 13 of them are coordinators.

So you drop your pool of potential black head coaches from 25 to 13.

Joker Phillips is on that list, and he has already been named the HCIW, so that trims the list down to 12. Let’s look at those 12, shall we?

Mike London is now the head coach at Richmond, so now we are down to 11.

Kevin Sumlin is the head coach at Houston, now we have ten left.

Ron English, Louisville defensive coordinator
James Franklin, Maryland offensive coordinator
Michael Haywood, Notre Dame offensive coordinator
Mike Locksley, Illinois offensive coordinator
Calvin Magee, Michigan offensive coordinator
Tyrone Nix, MIssissippi defensive coordinator
Jay Norvell, Oklahoma co-offensive coordinator
Charlie Strong, Florida co-defensive coordinator
DeWayne Walker, UCLA defensive coordinator
Tim Walton, Memphis defensive coordinator

Ok, now that we’ve done that, let’s trim the list again to coordinators from teams that are actually winning.

Mike Haywood comes off the list immediately, as Notre Dame’s offense is abysmal. Some of that blame may lie at Charlie’s feet, but as coordinator, he’s going to take the brunt of it.

Nine Left.

Ron English has only been at a very bad Louisville team one year. I say we give him enough time to turn it around.

Eight left.

James Franklin has been merely mediocre at a mediocre Maryland team. Not what I would consider a big time prospect.

Seven left.

Jay Norvell has been a bit of a nomad, moving from school to school, and he hasn’t exactly left a trail of top teams in his wake.

Six left.

Calvin Magee did good while he was at WVU, but he stunk it up in his first year at Michigan. Looks more like the offense was good because of talent and not necessarily because of scheming.

Five left.

Tim Walton has been at Memphis for one year. Once again, not a long enough track record to establish yourself as a legitimate candidate.

So now we have four assistants out of 22 potential head coaches:

Tyrone Nix
Charlie Strong
Mike Locksley
DeWayne Walker.

Out of those four, which ones do you think are qualified for a BCS conference level head coaching job? How many are qualified for a lower level head coaching gig?

The media acts like there are just an abundance of over qualified black head coaching candidates, but there really aren’t that many. Of those four, only Charlie Strong is the real candidate. The other three probably need a few more years to prove themselves.

“Being a good or bad coach SHOULD be all that it is about”
Yeah, that’s true, but it isn’t what major universities think its about. To them its ‘marketing’ and ‘selling the team’ and other assorted bullshit. You seriously can’t tell me that its not like that. Boosters and school administrators are the ones making this decision on basis other than pure coaching ability.
Like Orson said: “half of the players, a sliver of the coaches.”

Orson,
You’ll notice that I followed up with a list of the potential candidates. As I said before, there just aren’t that many candidates.

You can sing Turner Gill’s name from the hill, but moving him from one head coaching position to another doesn’t change the overall numbers. It isn’t about where they are at, but how many.

If you think there aren’t enough black assistants, do you start some kind of black assistant affirmative action in college programs? What is your suggestion?

Croom won’t get a sniff from another D1 school. And he shouldn’t. The man is a terrible game day coach. Most of the miracles that occurred over the past 5 years were the work of Ellis Johnson not Sly Croom.

Orson,
Good points, and my apologies on directly referencing you. I should not have done that. Sometimes, however, the whole “white guilt” thing can be a tad frustrating to deal with on a constant basis. Also, I would argue that the term “politically correct” has been taken out of its original context for so long, and its initial meaning/definition has subsequently been so vastly broadened, that it can legitimately refer to a wide array of topics (think the old, worn-out argument over the expansion of the meaning of the Confederate battle flag). And I cannot whole-heartily agree that black coaches are passed over for white coaches because of their race. And as I am sure law school taught you, statistics can be very, very misleading. Even in reality. My initial argument remains the same: A coach should be hired or fired based on character and ability, but never on skin color. And that applies to white coaches, too. A white coach should not be hired over a qualified black coach simply because of his being white. That, I think which we can all agree, would be unacceptable. However, I do apologize for my earlier unwarranted personal attack. It was wrong. And by the way, I am from Mississippi (and sometimes I actually can laugh at us Mississippians), and I am not a troll. That was hurtful.

El Kabong—

A damn good question. The root cause is the first question, which is enough to keep us busy all offseason. (And to keep accusations of being “the race police” and other tardbot gens flying in the comments.)

The short answer is: we don’t know, and neither does anyone else.

Troll accusation redacted, Mr. Shuler. Continue your fine legislative work.

Orson,
Also, my apologies for using the term “Race Police”. I don’t know if using it rises to a level of earning me the title of “tardbot”, but it was indeed unfounded. And I suppose, wrong. I fall upon my sword.
And hailstate,
Ellis Johnson, although a good defensive coach, can hardly take the credit for State’s Liberty Bowl season. Truthfully, such credit should be bestowed upon Tommy Tuberville’s annual ritual of being beaten by a clearly inferior team, pre-2008 John Parker Wilson and his uncanny ability to derail a game for Alabama, and Pete Boone for getting rip-roaring drunk and naming Ed The Orgeron a head coach at an SEC school.

No, none of you can have Turner Gill. He’s ours.

OK, realistically, I know that Turner should get a big-time gig, and I’ll be happy for him when he does so. But Syracuse is not a big-time gig. If TT comes calling, well, vaya con dios, Turner. It was fun.

As to the broader point – excellent post, Orson. Don’t let the Fabulous Faubus FanKlub stop you from writing stuff like this.

Orson, I have a problem with using NFL coaches as standards for minority hires. An NFL head coaching position isn’t half as political as a NCAA head coaching position. Coaches are hired to WIN and that’s it. In the college game they have to do more than win, they also have to ‘be the face of the program’. Fair? Not sure to be honest with you.

The NFL has the Rooney Rule also, which arguably allows minority coaches to get at least a foot in the door. Does the NCAA need to adopt a Rooney Rule? Again, not sure.

What I am sure of is that there is a large representational gap in the number of minority coaches compared to the number of minority players. Reasons for that? Too many to list.

For the 1st Question – Why aren’t there many black coaches,? I agree with the answer supplied by El Kabong, @48, he backed it up mightily.

That brings us to the follow up question – Why are there not many black candidates? That needs answered and addressed.

2.5% of Div I coaches are black and there are no programs or practices in place by the NCAA or any conference that I know of to address this.

I am from eastern Arkansas, if there is one thing we understand, that is humor about being from Mississippi.

Trapper John,
Low blow. Just because some of us are not ardent supporters of affirmative action programs and the like for the hiring of college football coaches does not mean we want to segregate the Arkansas public school system. The only “Orval” I applaud spelled it differently. And because flying scares the daylights out of me, I not even that big of a fan of the latter.

@48
Why so zealously opposed to the brothers getting a shot? It’s not like there’s been a big epidemic of black coaches getting HC jobs ahead of white coaches. 3 out of 119 is just embarassing. You seem like you’re awfully eager to tear down a bunch of guys that have worked awfully hard to get where they are, and for often very questionable reasons. Cases in point:

Jay Norvell was at Nebraska for 3 years and left because he wanted to call plays. Those Nebraska offenses were pretty good after the second year or so, and he was universally loved by his players. Offensive genious Bill Callahan wouldn’t hear of it, so he went to UCLA. He was at UCLA for a year and then the Dorrell coaching staff got fired. Now he’s been at Oklahoma and their offense has been….kind of ok.

Calvin Magee inherited a bunch of players that are about as far away from what he needs to run his run/spread offense as you can get. They will get better at it once he gets his type of players in there.

Curiously, the guy that Calvin McGee was passed over for took an offense that was nearly unstoppable last year and manged to drive it off of a cliff. How does that happen when you still have Pat White and Noel Devine? It couldn’t be the guy calling the plays, could it?

I guess my question to you is this: What do you gain by “brewing your hate soup”? Does it really feel good to stand up for white guys every where on this issue?

to everyone worried about the lack of black head coaches, do you feel the same way about the lack of white nba players? or white nfl players? what should be done about that?

peers in

yep, shit still stirring. Goes back to tipi, and damns the whole buncha’ interlopers and land-squatters.

I jest (but only because I don’t have the numbers for O’s #1 proposition).

Here’s how you fix the shameful number:

1) Make sure the players graduate. One oft-forgotten part of the equation when it comes to hiring a head coach is that a B.A. is required for many, if not all, gigs.

2) Offer better pay for graduate assistants. If you are a black football player from a less-than-well-off family and you don’t have enough to play on Sunday after you’re done, you’re not going to take a GA gig when the pay is that lousy and you have yourself and possibly others in your family to worry about.

That’s a start. The pool of coordinators is not large enough because the NCAA and its member institutions do not make it a priority.

I love the U. I love Randy Shannon and what he has done for the program. I believe in Shannon. That said, I would drop Shannon in a second for Charlie Strong. I’ve been yelling for Charlie Strong to get a job since I saw what he did in the 2004 Peach, shutting down a pretty good Miami offense and calling a very balanced game on offense, if I recall correctly it was a great mix of run and pass and only turnovers and sacks were the big factor in the lack of offensive success. Plus, Charlie to me just seems to have “it”. Charlie Strong is above all this no offers mess, he should be getting good offers, like real good ones. Like the caliber of Clemson level jobs, if not better jobs.

And if I was any MAC school at all, any C-USA school, and like half of the Big East and 80% of the WAC or MWC, I would give Trooper Taylor a shot. Trooper could be solid gold in a HC position, and if Trooper Taylor got a job, any job, even the job at Utah State, I’d start paying attention to Utah State. Isn’t that more then enough to get the job at those mysterious 25 members of D-1 that it takes you just as long to name as it does the bigger 85 schools combined?. In my eyes Taylor is a recruiting master a la Coach O in waiting, and you can do far worse at a ton of schools. Also, Croom deserves to fall into some silly job in the D-1 ranks, you can’t tell me he isn’t a better option then whatever the heck anyone in the C-USA has, or that he wouldn’t take any D-1 job you offer him. I really don’t care all that much about black or white and numbers, but you can’t deny their are a lack of black coaches, a statistically significant lack, and that there are at least a few really good black coaches you could hire, and will probably not get jobs. Even if you want to make the argument that perhaps there arn’t enough qualified black coaches to make the proportion of black coaches to all coaches match black Americans to all Americans, I think it’s undeniable that there are black coaches that should clearly have jobs right now, and I think that is a problem. I’ll care a LOT less when people break down Strong’s door with offers, and people take a chance on someone like Taylor at any program and Gill at a BCS program that isn’t Iowa State or the like.

Some of these hilarious posts remind the rest of us that there are a LOT of Southern college football fans. Pro tip: Stop yelling “PC” whenever you get the willies about race and people might believe you’re actually educated and literate. Maybe. Probably not. LOL. “Go Rebels!”

Lovie Smith was LB coach at TB and D.Co. at Chicago, but you are correct. He is a black coach.

@64

Gee, on a fucking University of Florida guy’s blog there might be some southern football fans? This is a far more honest, candid debate about race in America than the media narrative of “Race in America”™ so central in the recent election.

Do I agree with a lot of these troglodytes? Fuck no. But geography has nothing to do with it. Want some fun facts? Here ya go. Second largest slave port in the U.S.? New York City. Home of America’s black ghettos? Chicago.

Now, resume digging in your ass for the mushrooms you are apparently so fond of.

There should be a concerted effort by the BCA to get more young black men into coaching at the GA level. That’s where it all has to start.

If not then you run the risk of just hiring a guy who could turn out to be the next Gerry Faust…or Charlei Weiss….

What a thread.

The lack of black head coaches is merely the product, and visible representation, of systemic “racism” from GA hirings on up. I put racism in quotes because it’s not quite that simple, but close. Fewer black men will get chances at being GAs. This is not worrisome on it’s own, but it means fewer blacks are qualified to move up. This continues up the ladder until you get to HC, where so few blacks are left, after being unfairly pushed out of the game (unfair because so many dozens of white mediocre coaches get hired again and again). The “AHHH OH MY GOD PC OBAMA WHITE GUILT” posters here are correct on their point that there are not very many black coaches qualified to be HC. But why is that? How can blacks make up a majority of players, but somehow end up being 3/119 at the HC positions, and all others “unqualified”?

It has more to do with GA hirings than HC hirings. If you don’t let them in the door to begin with, they won’t be there at the top 20 years later.

Unfortunately, it’s hard to track things like entry-level coaching gigs, and even harder to reform, as it takes a generation for those entering to get to the point where they are visible (head coaches).

“Ty Willingham has proved beyond any doubt that he is not a good head coach, but people are STILL knocking Notre Dame for firing him. If he was some old white guy who got shiatcanned for stinking up South Bend, nobody would be talking about it four years later.”

Disagree. He still got fired way too prematurely, and he’d still be used as an example along with Bob Davie in all the “fire Charlie Weis” talk going on right now, and any future “fire ______” talk that emerges about that program. The talk will only subside once the program finds a coach that can bring some long-term success to the program, regardless of who gets hired and fired in the interim and what color his skin is.

One thing that University Presidents and Distinguished Alumni look for is guys who have a connection to a firner ciacg. Son’s of coaches are much more likely to get a crack than other guys. Look, I’m not saying they don’t have a better idea of how football works after sitting at the knee of a learned sage. But the problem isn’t at the headcoach position, the problem is at the entry level position. If the spawn of Bowden, etc take the entry level job that would have been done just as well by an African American kid. When does that kid get a chance to break in?

As a WSU Cougar, I’m stunned that UW isn’t making a run at Turner Gill. Then again, other than Pat Hill and various blind hopes for Jim Mora, what the hell is UW doing?

Then again, this Belotti to AD and Chip Kelly to HC stuff at Oregon might put Chris Peterson back in play.

Two points.

First, as expected, I saw more than one negative comment on this thread, directed at entire groups in stereotype-fashion…and, as expected, all were aimed at Southerners, Mississippians, and other “troglodytes” of the melanin-deprived persuasion. The high priests of Tolerance strike again!

I understand that many of you get tired of folks who have a chip on their shoulder about this, Southerners especially—heck, I get tired of it too—but you should take a moment to ask whether they have a point nevertheless. Whether, in fact, it is perfectly acceptable to run folks down as a group using stereotypes, so long as they are not part of a Designated Victim Group; whereas if they are, political correctness obligates us to tap-dance ever so gingerly around their every last sensitivity.

I personally have a problem with both ends of that equation.

Second, I am breathlessly awaiting the great “Why are there so few white people in pro basketball?” thread. The percentages are even more out of whack there…surely this is a problem in even more urgent need of a solution?

Mike Locksley (illinois OC) is another good one, he interviewed for Clemson.

Outstanding recruiter.

While I agree on most of the merits of the issue at hand, but as a “Southern Football fan”, #65, put up or shut up. I eagerly await all the minority candidates hired at Washington, Syracuse, Kansas St. and looking in the recent past, LOLMichigan, Nebraska, Illinois, and the like?

Yes, that notorious Jim Crow and Slave state, Hawaii, is also on the list.

3 words: Billy Dee Williams

An excellent, thought-provoking post, Orson. Although you may get an argument from Bears fans these days about Lovie Smith being a good coach (at minimum, the guy surrounds himself with crappy coordinators… bleeping Ron Turner and his infatuation with the no-lead-blocker fullback dive in short-yardage situations…)

“Ty Willingham has proved beyond any doubt that he is not a good head coach, but people are STILL knocking Notre Dame for firing him. If he was some old white guy who got shiatcanned for stinking up South Bend, nobody would be talking about it four years later.”

Maybe. Or maybe it might help ND’s cause if they didn’t just retain a white coach who has a worse record, percentage-wise, after four seasons than the black coach they wasted no time in firing after three.

[/Not saying… just saying.]

I think Alabama knows a thing or recently learned a thing about coaching hires. One has to wonder where the program would be if we would have hired Croom, who was considered for the job. To sidestep all of this, once Shula was fired, they simply stated that
“Alabama will be looking for a PROVEN head coach.”
Which is code for : We already have Nick Saban at the end of the NFL season, the rest of this search is for show, like the WWE. I dont think there is a law or requirement to interview Black Head Coaches or candidates like in the Pros. So basically, universities will hire and fire who they want., most of them being white. Many know most university presidents are pressured by the BOT and boosters, and they pay most salaries of the staff, so they do have a say in who gets interviewed or who they want coaching their team.
And most of the coaches searches are done thru the AGENTS, so you can start there. Follow the money, you will have your answer. What black Head Coaching candidates were interviewed by Tennessee? Clemson? Syracuse? Out of all the vacancies this year, who will get the Black guy? Maybe Miss St……but how will that look?

I agree that the trouble starts with there being more white GAs than black GAs. The answer to this is far less entertaining/controversial than one might imagine: it’s because white kids ride the bench and therefore have nothing else to do but dream of being coaches. Remember the old phrase, “Those who can, do. Thos who can’t, teach” ? Insert “coach” for “teach” and you have your answer.

Don’t believe me? Take a look at any given game on any given Saturday. Who is the dork wtih the headset, giving the signals to the starters on the field? That’s right. It’s your next GA.

Orson, as to the “troll” reference….

I resemble that remark…

As far as I can tell, the thread was won by posts #43 and #63, and the rest of the thread is merely a pale imitation of a radio talk show that has taught me little about the issue but much about the plight of oppressed Southern white boys.

The comment about position coaching salaries particularly hit home. Within a year or two out of school, you can make more money taking a HS teaching/coaching job, than you can working as a position coach at my alma mater. It’s a persistent issue in attracting talent of any variety.

So, here’s the question: Since coaches undeniably do tend to hire younger coaches and GAs from their personal networks, how do we get them to cast a broader net?

Orson:

This is my favorite website on the internet(s). I visit EDSBS at least three times daily. It is a nice contrast to my job, which is highly stressfull and demanding. I come here to laugh, and to get some actual news without the message board trash. Your humor is smart, and I greatly appreciate it.

I want to offer a bit of unsolicited constructive criticism. Arguably, the biggest game in the history of the SEC is going to be played Saturday between my team and your team. Highly charged political topics like minority hiring should be saved for the post season, when we have nothing left to discuss. If I wanted to read/write about controversial social/legal issues, I’d go back to the brief I’m supposed to be working on instead of visiting your site. Now gimmie some footbawl!

Slow morning here in the cube so I actually read all 82 posts. Some very good, and not so good, points made by both camps, including my Bama bretheren. The ‘dumb white guy from the south’ response was expected and delivered on cue as was the ‘you yankees can kiss my ass’ rebuttal. Not exactly earth shattering commentary.

I think the bottom line is the stat from Orson: 3 out of 119 coaches are black. Regardless of your opinion, that is incredibly out of balance. What’s the fix? Obviously no one here is enlightened enough to provide an answer. It appears 116 college presidents aren’t either.

Southern Bama grad dorky white guy out.

@79 – to prove your point…..Brian Schottenheimer. (Marty’s kid). Told his dad that he wanted to coach someday since he would never make it as a pro player. Dad said – go to UF (as a backup QB) and learn at the feet of the master – Steve Spurrier.

Maybe there is that glass ceiling for black players. (If you don’t think you’re going to ever be a head coach – what is the point of trying?)

Someone else said it best – pay the GA’s alot more $$ -

I would add – …. and go out of your way to recruit black assistants.

Well, IMO, it begins at the GA level. GAs become Ass. Coaches, then queue up for the 8-10 D1-A openings each year.

One thing that puzzles me is that something like ~21% of Men’s Basketball coaches are black, so how are the supposed racist ADs and alumni boosters avoiding hiring black FB coaches but apparently have no issue hiring black BB coaches?

This leads me to think it’s a kink in the “system” rather than an overarching conspiracy growing unchecked in the most PC portion of America.

(tts dated last year, but this is the only concise link I could find with a quick search: http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stories/053007aao.html )

I don’t know if I will end up with the last comment, or if people are even still reading this thing.

The people throwing around the “dumb southern redneck” shit can eat my ass with a spoon. They seem to be the only people that it is still ok to discriminate against 100% of the time.

There have been some good points put up here, but let’s throw out a few more:

Out of all the openings that have come up in the last three years, how many have been filled by people who did not have head coaching experience?

In 2007, there were eighteen openings.

Six were filled by people with no prior head coaching experience. (You could almost count Bill Stewart here, except for a short stint at VMI).

Out of those six, three were hires from personnel already on the coaching staff. One of those was a minority hire, with Ken Niumatalolo at Navy.

So we have three positions that were filled by people with no prior head coaching experience:

Bo Pelini, at Nebraska
Larry Fedora, Southern Miss
Kevin Sumlin, Houston

Out of three potential positions, one, or 33.4%, were filled by a black candidate.

All three of the hires have an impressive resume, and it is difficult to put up another black candidate that is more deserving than they are.

If I get the energy, I can go back down and do 2006, 2005, etc., but I think a point has been made.

Please, please, please, understand that I am not a racist and would not care if Alabama hired an all black staff and only recruited black players. I don’t care, I just want a team to win.

But I will not ever approve of a coach not getting hired because he is not black, just as I wouldn’t approve of a coach not getting hired because he is black.

Is it a problem? Yes. Is it a big, grand conspiracy by The Man to keep black coaches down? Good grief, no.

Here is the reason there are not very many black football coaches in NCAA football:

Ask the black college players what their plans are after college and they will say Pro football.

Ask the white college players what their plans are after college and they will say they want to coach.

Ten years later the black players are coming off their NFL careers and the white players have been coaching for ten years. It’s hard to make up that time quickly.

@35……FAIL….See Dabo Swinney.

My Coogs just went with Kevin Sumlin and he has been no different than Art Briles. Both are adept at putting inconsistent teams on the field and can not game plan to save their lives. It is a great day when you no longer notice a man’s race, but only that he sucks as a head coach.

How about Hispanic coaches? Can there be incentives to hire them? Maybe they get to fit three recruits into each scholarship spot?

I dont know much about this issue at all, but it seems the less than 3% head coaches statistic needs to be examined. As one poster suggested, a head coach in college is the face of the program. Does this hurt recruiting amongst the talent pool, of which many if not the majority are black? If this is not the reason, then does it hurt donation amongst the alumni, many of which(especially the largest donors) are white? If this were true, and AD’s were aware and factored this into decision making, then this would be racism, if not directly bigoted, then at least reflecting more subtle prejudices. However, I wonder about the lower level positions not being filled. Some suggest that the jobs dont pay enough, etc, but why would this necessarily be a bar to blacks over whites? I don’t think the correlation is as obvious as some posters have suggested. This would be self-selected at best.

Other point to consider: If a degree is indeed required to enter the ranks of coaches, then we should look past the raw percentage of players by color, and instead look at players who are granted degrees by race. Also, what is the average SAT by race? If a preponderance of one race owns the lower quartiles, would this explain some of the exclusions of less educated players of one race from entering coaching tracks? How about players disciplined for behavior by race? This too might have an effect if there were a large statistical difference. Unfortunately, these data are likely unavailable, for a variety of reasons, but I would suspect that the same people who would endorse a quota type hiring scheme would also suppress such information if it was politically unpalatable.