CURIOUS INDEX, 2/15/08
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Roll Bama Roll responds to Brian Cook’s slam of Alabama’s 4732 scholarship class this year. Many insults are paid to Brian’s hair, but as someone with an NHL-worthy playoff beard right now, we can’t say shit other than Brian is oversimplifying the case a bit (Alabama skoolz, represent!), but he’s not totally wrong here.
And no, that’s no faux-hawk. Our hair just does that. When it’s long, it looks like Doc Brown in his younger days. TAMU mascot Reveille VII is retiring, leaving her duties as Aggie mascot to enjoy the glorious life of a retired dog, licking her privates, sleeping, eating, crapping, and occasionally asking to be stroked. In other words, pretty much the life you’d want to lead, all things being equal. Reveille traveled over 10,000 miles a year around Texas for alumni functions last year. Meaning she got out more than you did, most likely. But you didn’t do it on a leash, so be proud of that. SMQ explains the influence of death on the college football rulebook. Also includes the megafunky but legal trick formation LSU used to baffle DevilGrad tells us to look to UVA to enter the Fulmer Cup sooner rather than later. Why? Bobby Pruett, former Marshall head coach, is unretiring to join the Cavaliers’ staff as defensive coordinator. Finally, if you bury us in this, we vow to come screaming out of hell and kill you with a rocket launcher that shoots rabid wolverines from it.
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1
Mike says:
LSU had a play tricky enough to baffle themselves?
February 15th, 2008 at 11:28 am
2
Last Dragon says:
That my friend is another example of SEC speed. Able to fool yourself….
February 15th, 2008 at 11:35 am
3
Eirishis says:
Wait – there is such a thing as going out without a leash? I, along with your other married male readers, am confused. TCOAN must have you well trained, Orson.
February 15th, 2008 at 11:41 am
4
ThreenOut says:
“Surprisingly, Dracula was a Bulldog Fan” Funny.
Keep making posts about EA and your wife will make sure your buried in a UGA or UT one methinks.
February 15th, 2008 at 11:43 am
5
Baconpants says:
Just read the Roll Bama Roll post, and all I can say is wow, that response makes as little or less sense than Brian’s post. I am not invested in either, so angry Bama fans, don’t unleash your dogs on me, but I think that by just picking apart spots where Brian was incorrect (OMG, we have 30 and not 32 recruitz!!!), and then attacking UM and RichRod, you failed to address what I think was the point of Brian’s post, which is that there are ethical concerns about oversigning kids on promises to get them into school, with the knowledge that it will likely not happen, and also with dismissing kids from the team before they have completed four years. I am not talking about cases where kids fail out of school or cannot keep themselves eligible, I am talking about releasing kids from their scholarships when you want too big of a recruiting class than you have scholarships for. I don’t care what you say about how scholarships are renewable on a yearly basis, when a coach sits with a hs kids parents, they promise, among other things, to provide that kid a college education. If the NCAA, Bama, and all the other schools that do this still purport to be academic institutions, and not the NFL farm league, they have a duty to give kids scholarships to allow them to complete their degrees (all this assumes the kids do their part and remain academically eligible).
I also think Brian’s post was worse for the fact that he tackled a big subject that opened a huge can of worms in an article at FanHaus where articles are necessarily 3 paragraphs of dribble.
February 15th, 2008 at 11:47 am
6
Tater Salad says:
I think the biggest problem with Brian’s article is that it is premature. That’s what the rational Bama fans are ticked about. Everyone is assuming that the recruits were lied to and that some unsuspecting players are going to lose a chance at getting an education.
These coaches know what they are doing and are very good with numbers. They likely know which recruits will not qualify. They also likely know who will be gone through attrition.
And finally, does it really take an article on Nick Saban in 2008 to show that there are ethical concerns in recruiting? It’s college football, and more specifically, SEC football.
February 15th, 2008 at 11:52 am
7
Whiteshoes says:
Baconpants – I think the reason why Bama fans are upset is that Brian’s post singles out Nick Saban / Alabama for the practice. If you want to say that oversigning is unethical, then that’s fine, but don’t single out a particular coach with labels like “snake oil salesman” etc. when the practice appears to be commonplace.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
8
Expat Ohioan says:
Reveille VII retiring? She was a real bitch.
Sorry.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
9
Bobby Decatur says:
Hey Avondale! You’re standing exactly 4 blocks from my house in that pic. Enjoy the APC while you can…it’s going down with that water oak behind it for the new Publix within the next 6 months…
February 15th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
10
Picture Me Rollin says:
Can we please all drop the “poor college football player” bit. I doubt that you can find any player on any team regardless of coaching change that did what they were supposed to do and was asked to leave the program. Sometimes college kids have to actually go to class, practice like they want to play, and be responsible citizens, unless they are really good athletes or their parents are very connected.
There is not a player that was signed this year or any year that will not get to go to school and earn a degree… if they put in the work. The sad fact is there are quite a few who don’t. And I am not referring solely to Alabama.
We could go on all day, and we obviously are, about ethics in college football but unfortunately the two are not synonymous. I am not dismissing the need for ethics just saying that if your going to start fixing it, over signing isn’t the place to start.
If Michigan or Ohio State were coming off championships, I don’t believe you would hear a word about this.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
11
Shane MacGowan's Teeth says:
I have to agree with MgoBoy on this one. Still, he can eat a dick.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
12
3rd says:
fact is brian cook wrote a poorly researched, hatred filled piece of shit article and rollbamaroll took him to task for it. Hopefully next time brian will either a) keep his fucking mouth shut about shit he knows nothing about, or b) put in the time to learn about his subject before he spews his opinions everywhere
Hopefully he’ll choose a?
February 15th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
13
DevilGrad says:
All Brian failed to do was illustrate his post with a cartoon to give y’all a ten-minute head start on reading comprehension to get your hate on.
http://michiganzone.blogspot.com/2006/02/bama-riots-over-bear-bryant-cartoons.html
February 15th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
14
TheMile says:
A much more rational discussion of this happened exactly a year ago with Kyle of Dawg Sports. Good points on either side are made in both the post and the comments:
http://www.dawgsports.com/story/2007/2/15/232527/365
February 15th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
15
Coop says:
I certainly side with the Alabama fans in this argument, but I think it is hilarious that they don’t think that Saban will run off players from the past regime.
Let me put it to you another way:
Open up a program from Alabama’s home opener from 2007, and check out the roster.
Then, open up the 2008 version in September and, again, check out the roster.
You are going to find players that were sophomores and juniors on that 2007 roster that will not be on the 2008 roster.
And, I will also guarantee you that the ones who have departed are not all “violation of team rules,” casualties.
We covered this yesterday, but this is the epitome of the spirit of the law (Brian) vs. the letter of the law (Alabama).
You will have kids quit and/or transfer, you will have kids get medical exemptions so they can stay in school, but not count against the 85 rule, and you will have a couple of walk ons that will have their scholarships yanked, and you may have a couple of “violation of team rules,” guys thrown in there for fun, as well.
Also, there is probably a walk on or two that was on scholarship for a year or two, and now they won’t be.
But, here is what I don’t understand:
THIS HAPPENS EVERYWHERE AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS A REGIME CHANGE.
I guarantee you that, next season, RR will have run off several players from the previous regime who just are not in line with where he wants to go as a program.
But, something tells me that Brian will not be writing any articles about Michigan doing the exact same thing.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
16
maskedavenger says:
Bama gentlemen:
I think that Brian’s point is relatively simple – if there are 30 signees and only room for 25 then by simple mathematics 5 aren’t going to make it. Now if it just turns out that the Alabama staff was clairvoyant, and exactly 5 turn out to be academically ineligible then fine. But what if its only 3? Then 2 guys get screwed. Further, there was some indication that on occasion, the school will make it so a kid is not academically eligible who might otherwise be so. If true (and I have no idea whether the source mentioned by Brian is credible on this), that is quite callous because it funnels a kid to prep school or junior college who might otherwise be able to play Division I football now.
This is not the first time this question has come up, Brian and Orson examined it more in depth a year ago. I think Orson agreed that the SEC oversigns:
http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2007/02/23/coming-or-going-southeastish/#more-3157
February 15th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
17
TheMile says:
“THIS HAPPENS EVERYWHERE AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS A REGIME CHANGE.”
This is simply wrong. Not all schools oversign, and see the 85 number as a hard limit. They’ll push for greyshirts rather than pass 85.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
18
the beefy ghost of prop joe says:
Notre Dame fans across the internets are shocked that Brian would write an article that takes a narrow view of a complex issue or resorts to name calling.
Here’s to hoping to bring the weekend on with more EA pics, or at least some more classic Nature Boy
February 15th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
19
ThreenOut says:
Somebody is slightly moderately biased towards their own program of choice!!!! The Germans bomb the Moon!. Bush defeats Truman!!!
February 15th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
20
Brian @ MGoBlog says:
I was just going to make a Chris Benoit joke, but all the comments are about this Bama thing. So a link to further explanation.
http://mgoblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/alabama-fans-cannot-think-logically-but.html
No, Saban is not alone. No, that does not exonerate him for being a douche. Yes, I do take a narrow view of the exploitation of players. I think it’s bad.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
21
Brian @ MGoBlog says:
Also, my hair is fucking awesome.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
22
Billy in Baton Rouge says:
Dude so THATS why you kept babbling about 1.21 jiggawatts that night on Bourbon St…I figured you were just talking about the amount of alcohol in the hand grenade I gave you.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
23
crimson daddy says:
Is it the school’s fault if a kid doesn’t qualify?
And the kids that are going to greyshirt are told this beforehand. They know going in. So should they not be allowed to go to the school of their choice?
February 15th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
24
Will (the other one) says:
Re: Orson’s hair.
You call that “long”?
Also, why don’t we let results on the field settle this UM-Bama feud. What happened the last time they played?
February 15th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
25
DevilGrad says:
To answer the question in #23, hell yes. Barring head trauma or large amounts of purple drank, most kids too stupid to get into college don’t get that way overnight, and your coaching staff needs to do its diligence on that front. Some schools — even ones with Division I-A football — find it helpful to have a special staff to help determine such things; they call it the “admissions office.”
February 15th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
26
Warthen says:
TheMile
Please don’t send Bama fans to DawgSports. We try to keep that place rational and civil.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
27
Todd says:
As one of the RBR guys, I’ll say that comments 6 & 7 are right on target. We take umbrage at his calling out of Saban and Alabama and implying that something “filthy” is going on when there is no evidence of that (either by putting on medical sholarship when they could sitll play, as he implies, or that guys are going to get kicked off the team that have shown they can and deserve to play for guys with better star ratings), and that his article was a “omg!!!11$aban=evil!!!1 (pay no attention to rich rodriguez)” brought about by Joe Tiller’s comments about DickRod that had nothing to do with Saban or Alabama. And Orson, my beard thinks yours is gay (and not good gay like girls, bad gay like dudes).
February 15th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
28
Der Schatten says:
Wow, Brian. Exploit players? Like give some legacy schollies, give others, like Zeke Knight and Tyrone Prothro, a medical schollie so that they can continue their educations, and threaten the old Shula slack-asses with withdrawal of their schollies? You mean, like signing more than 25 b/c you know, given a few of our head cases and softies, that attrition is about to come big time after Spring Practice? Noooo, really? Exploitation to fill out your roster to account for the few academic casualties in every recruiting class? Gimme a freakin’ break.
You write excellent analyses on most occasions; and I do enjoy your blog. However, this unfortunately, just isn’t one of those occasions. Your piece was half-informed at best, and ignorant at worst. Stick with what you know, and concede that this isn’t one of those things.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
29
yoyofutbawl says:
I sure hate to defend Satan but everybody in the SEC oversigns to some degree due to academic casualties.Ol’ Giggetty-Giggetty at Ole Missie has signed 32, hasn’t he? I suppose the last two are on the swimming team, a la 1970-71.
It’s just too much fun to lay it on bammer nation as they always overeract.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
30
Baconpants says:
@ Der – are you responding to the original Fanhouse post or the new one on Mgoblog that Brian linked above? I think the mgoblog post is a much better, and, from that and his research with Orson last year, also linked above, I would say he knows a lot about this.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
31
Biggus Rickus says:
That casket would be a lot coller if it were in the shape of a helmet.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
32
Jerkwheat says:
Reveille VII is da realest bitch I know
February 15th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
33
3rd says:
#30 –
if you mean ‘brian knows a lot about recruting’, i’ll give you that, i don’t know shit about what he knows
if you mean ‘brian knows a lot about this year’s alabama class specifically and how saban is going to fuck over X number of players’ then you’re just blindly agreeing with him based on ..um… who knows
February 15th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
34
Scalz1 says:
The response to Brian is laughable, at best. Hair attacks were his best literary blow ? Wow.
And then a “Say Anything” reference in the comments. The mantal image of Bama fans watching 80’s teen angst movies makes my gall bladder hurt.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
35
TIGERinATL says:
DevilGrad, I can’t believe I am gonna defend sa6an, but…
Many many schools sign players they know good and well will have to go to JuCo or prepschool if for no other reason than to have a foot in the door when it comes time to re-recruit them later on. I feel pretty sure that most SEC and other BCS level schools do this. I know for a fact that Auburn does.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
36
Der Schatten says:
Pants
My point is that there is oversigning, and then there’s oversigning. Each team’s circumstances for 25+ is different. i.e., if you’re Ole Miss (just a name), with a track record of losing a 1/3 of your class that’s one thing; if you’re oversigning with 2*’s to play wait and see on the blue chippers that’s another. I submit that the first instance is emphatically in good faith with your marginal qualifiers, while the second is exploitative, pure and simple. The latter might be snake oil.
Just like every coach knows which recruit is not going to get the extra ACT point, thus a trip to Hargrave, every coach also knows which old roster spot is likely to be vacated at cut time. Sorry, that’s just not exploitative…that’s getting the best 85, and planning for what you’ll do after spring practice (esp. true with a new regime working with upperclassmen who aren’t yours and aren’t buying in).
February 15th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
37
Scalz1 says:
ANd I forgot his closing quip: “Go Buckeyes”
WTF does that have to do with anything? I guess he didn’t want to say anything about App State because of the whole UL-M thing. Or the MSU thing.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
38
Baconpants says:
I don’t mean:
‘brian knows a lot about this year’s alabama class specifically and how saban is going to fuck over X number of players’
I mean I think Brian and Orson spent a lot of time researching the problem of oversigning beyond the 25 limit and oversigning beyond the scholarships available (including taking into account medicals, 5th years, etc). Not Bama specific – the problem overall, which is what I think should be discussed (not Bama vs UM/Brian)
February 15th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
39
maskedavenger says:
In the interest of fairness as a UM fan, I must note that Brian and Orson’s research showed that WV was the leading “oversigner” in the Big East. And now, of course, Rich Rodriguez is Michigan’s new coach. For those that didn’t click the link to Orson’s old research, WVU signed 34 in 2002 and 32 in 2005 and averaged 26 signees over the last 6 years.
So to the extent that this becomes a Michigan-Alabama fight, free to include a charge of hypocrisy.
February 15th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
40
3rd says:
bacon -
i think we’re in heated agreement.
If you’ve ever read OTS on rollbamaroll, you’d know he consistently authors incredibly well researched and interesting articles, in the class of smq, et al.
hindsight being 20/20 – a better article from brian would have been a discussion on the topic in general, and perhaps including a conversation with OTS, on how a specific example this year of an over signing will likely play out.
That would have been nice because (assuming you are correct) brian knows a lot about the issue in general, and OTS knows a lot about this Alabama class in particular.
But instead Brian titled his aol blogpost “nick saban = snake oil salesman” and proceeded on a rambunctious tirade against said coach and the UA recruiting class this year. Something he knows nothing about save that 32 – 25 = HOLY SHIT SABAN IS AT IT AGAIN!!!! HE’S FUCKING OVER 7 POOR CHILDREN!!!
So fuck him – it was shit journalism, and he deserves to be called out for it.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
41
Pants McPants says:
The bottom line is this, some schools actually take the time to figure out of a kid is going to be academically eligible or taking a break from crime sprees, and don’t even bother with the ones who won’t. Other schools, like West Viriginia, go after the Noel Devines, the Pat Lazaers and pretty much any talented academic ? /actual felon they can find and see what sticks.
Taking 26 or 27 one year out of four is one thing, when you hit the 30s often something is going seriously wrong. That’s up to 120 kids in 4 years with room for only 85. Either you are recruiting way too many dirtballs, or else you are actually giving the less talented players the boot. Either way, it’s bad, and quoting “histroical levels of attrition” is just another way of saying “Our coaches are inept, crooked or have no morals whatsoever”…
February 15th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
42
Brian says:
Tho it is likely obvious, I would like to point out I am NOT the Brian from the hated blog.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
43
Steve says:
Well, since no one else is going to sling mud, I figure I will.
Brian, that was the worst piece of drivel I think I have ever read. I’ve taken shits that had more substance than that. Every single point you make about Saban and/or Alabama could easily be made about your glorious program.
Saban is going to run off players, and that makes him a Snake Oil Salesman? I guess Ryan Mallett leaving Michigan was just a thing where he wanted to move closer to the South because of the warmer weather, and RR begged him to stay? No, he was run off by that boot licking, shit eating, four flushing, turd polishing, snake oil selling son of a bitch that you call “Coach Rod”.
Saban left Miami in a bad way? Fuck, no one short of Petrino left their previous job as badly as Rich Rod did.
Oversign much? It’s already been established that your boy is well versed in it.
Quit trying to blow smoke up our asses while pretending your program is all sugar plums and puppy farts.
Eat shit and die. Stones, glass houses, pot and kettle, etc.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
44
bama_buck says:
To condense this whole argument into one statement, Bama fans are sick of our school being held up as the poster boy for everything wrong with college football.
If something is a problem throughout the sport, don’t single us out.
Bob Stoops make $3.5 mil and Weiss makes $3.? mil, but Saban gets $4 mil and something is horribly wrong.
Bama and Miami oversign, so Saban is a snake oil salesman.
One Bama fan regularly masturbates to porn in a public libray and, oh wait, that was OSU. HAHAHA. I just remembered that and got bored of the original point of this post.
Sorry TOSUBuckeye. I know you’ll get us back for it, though.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
45
Steve says:
What this really comes down to is sour grapes.
Sorry, I know your team was picked to be in the national title game last year before the season, and you fucked it up by losing to App. State, a division two school.
I’m sorry your conference always sucks when it comes to national title games. I’m sure that Michigan would do better if they could make it there, but this isn’t the 1940’s.
I’m sure that Michigan has never, EVER signed a player that may not make it academically. I’m sure they have never signed a JUCO or prep school player.
Michigan is a perfect saint, and everyone in the SEC are devil worshippers, and Lucifer himself coaches at Alabama.
I realize it is an opinion piece, but fuck, it should have some basis in reality, if only partially.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
46
TIGERinATL says:
Lucifer himself coaches at Alabama.
I know you were joking, but this statement is, in fact, true.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
47
Kanu says:
Swindle, you have a bit of Greenskeeper Willie going on there. Well done.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
48
Steve says:
I’d rather have Satan than Dumbo.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
49
gerry dorsey says:
orson are you keeping an eye on this mgo/roll bama roll blog fight?? its getting dirty. if they lived any closer one of them might actually give the other one a limp wristed slap across the face.
haha…blog fighting.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
50
Domerva says:
Damn Steve,
Don’t sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.
February 15th, 2008 at 2:52 pm