CURIOUS INDEX, 2/15/08

LSU had a play tricky enough to baffle themselves?

That my friend is another example of SEC speed. Able to fool yourself….

Wait – there is such a thing as going out without a leash? I, along with your other married male readers, am confused. TCOAN must have you well trained, Orson.

“Surprisingly, Dracula was a Bulldog Fan” Funny.

Keep making posts about EA and your wife will make sure your buried in a UGA or UT one methinks.

Just read the Roll Bama Roll post, and all I can say is wow, that response makes as little or less sense than Brian’s post. I am not invested in either, so angry Bama fans, don’t unleash your dogs on me, but I think that by just picking apart spots where Brian was incorrect (OMG, we have 30 and not 32 recruitz!!!), and then attacking UM and RichRod, you failed to address what I think was the point of Brian’s post, which is that there are ethical concerns about oversigning kids on promises to get them into school, with the knowledge that it will likely not happen, and also with dismissing kids from the team before they have completed four years. I am not talking about cases where kids fail out of school or cannot keep themselves eligible, I am talking about releasing kids from their scholarships when you want too big of a recruiting class than you have scholarships for. I don’t care what you say about how scholarships are renewable on a yearly basis, when a coach sits with a hs kids parents, they promise, among other things, to provide that kid a college education. If the NCAA, Bama, and all the other schools that do this still purport to be academic institutions, and not the NFL farm league, they have a duty to give kids scholarships to allow them to complete their degrees (all this assumes the kids do their part and remain academically eligible).

I also think Brian’s post was worse for the fact that he tackled a big subject that opened a huge can of worms in an article at FanHaus where articles are necessarily 3 paragraphs of dribble.

I think the biggest problem with Brian’s article is that it is premature. That’s what the rational Bama fans are ticked about. Everyone is assuming that the recruits were lied to and that some unsuspecting players are going to lose a chance at getting an education.

These coaches know what they are doing and are very good with numbers. They likely know which recruits will not qualify. They also likely know who will be gone through attrition.

And finally, does it really take an article on Nick Saban in 2008 to show that there are ethical concerns in recruiting? It’s college football, and more specifically, SEC football.

Baconpants – I think the reason why Bama fans are upset is that Brian’s post singles out Nick Saban / Alabama for the practice. If you want to say that oversigning is unethical, then that’s fine, but don’t single out a particular coach with labels like “snake oil salesman” etc. when the practice appears to be commonplace.

Reveille VII retiring? She was a real bitch.

Sorry.

Hey Avondale! You’re standing exactly 4 blocks from my house in that pic. Enjoy the APC while you can…it’s going down with that water oak behind it for the new Publix within the next 6 months…

Can we please all drop the “poor college football player” bit. I doubt that you can find any player on any team regardless of coaching change that did what they were supposed to do and was asked to leave the program. Sometimes college kids have to actually go to class, practice like they want to play, and be responsible citizens, unless they are really good athletes or their parents are very connected.
There is not a player that was signed this year or any year that will not get to go to school and earn a degree… if they put in the work. The sad fact is there are quite a few who don’t. And I am not referring solely to Alabama.
We could go on all day, and we obviously are, about ethics in college football but unfortunately the two are not synonymous. I am not dismissing the need for ethics just saying that if your going to start fixing it, over signing isn’t the place to start.
If Michigan or Ohio State were coming off championships, I don’t believe you would hear a word about this.

I have to agree with MgoBoy on this one. Still, he can eat a dick.

fact is brian cook wrote a poorly researched, hatred filled piece of shit article and rollbamaroll took him to task for it. Hopefully next time brian will either a) keep his fucking mouth shut about shit he knows nothing about, or b) put in the time to learn about his subject before he spews his opinions everywhere

Hopefully he’ll choose a?

All Brian failed to do was illustrate his post with a cartoon to give y’all a ten-minute head start on reading comprehension to get your hate on.

http://michiganzone.blogspot.com/2006/02/bama-riots-over-bear-bryant-cartoons.html

A much more rational discussion of this happened exactly a year ago with Kyle of Dawg Sports. Good points on either side are made in both the post and the comments:

http://www.dawgsports.com/story/2007/2/15/232527/365

I certainly side with the Alabama fans in this argument, but I think it is hilarious that they don’t think that Saban will run off players from the past regime.

Let me put it to you another way:

Open up a program from Alabama’s home opener from 2007, and check out the roster.

Then, open up the 2008 version in September and, again, check out the roster.

You are going to find players that were sophomores and juniors on that 2007 roster that will not be on the 2008 roster.

And, I will also guarantee you that the ones who have departed are not all “violation of team rules,” casualties.

We covered this yesterday, but this is the epitome of the spirit of the law (Brian) vs. the letter of the law (Alabama).

You will have kids quit and/or transfer, you will have kids get medical exemptions so they can stay in school, but not count against the 85 rule, and you will have a couple of walk ons that will have their scholarships yanked, and you may have a couple of “violation of team rules,” guys thrown in there for fun, as well.

Also, there is probably a walk on or two that was on scholarship for a year or two, and now they won’t be.

But, here is what I don’t understand:

THIS HAPPENS EVERYWHERE AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS A REGIME CHANGE.

I guarantee you that, next season, RR will have run off several players from the previous regime who just are not in line with where he wants to go as a program.

But, something tells me that Brian will not be writing any articles about Michigan doing the exact same thing.

Bama gentlemen:

I think that Brian’s point is relatively simple – if there are 30 signees and only room for 25 then by simple mathematics 5 aren’t going to make it. Now if it just turns out that the Alabama staff was clairvoyant, and exactly 5 turn out to be academically ineligible then fine. But what if its only 3? Then 2 guys get screwed. Further, there was some indication that on occasion, the school will make it so a kid is not academically eligible who might otherwise be so. If true (and I have no idea whether the source mentioned by Brian is credible on this), that is quite callous because it funnels a kid to prep school or junior college who might otherwise be able to play Division I football now.

This is not the first time this question has come up, Brian and Orson examined it more in depth a year ago. I think Orson agreed that the SEC oversigns:

http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2007/02/23/coming-or-going-southeastish/#more-3157

“THIS HAPPENS EVERYWHERE AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS A REGIME CHANGE.”

This is simply wrong. Not all schools oversign, and see the 85 number as a hard limit. They’ll push for greyshirts rather than pass 85.

Notre Dame fans across the internets are shocked that Brian would write an article that takes a narrow view of a complex issue or resorts to name calling.

Here’s to hoping to bring the weekend on with more EA pics, or at least some more classic Nature Boy

Somebody is slightly moderately biased towards their own program of choice!!!! The Germans bomb the Moon!. Bush defeats Truman!!!

I was just going to make a Chris Benoit joke, but all the comments are about this Bama thing. So a link to further explanation.

http://mgoblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/alabama-fans-cannot-think-logically-but.html

No, Saban is not alone. No, that does not exonerate him for being a douche. Yes, I do take a narrow view of the exploitation of players. I think it’s bad.

Also, my hair is fucking awesome.

Dude so THATS why you kept babbling about 1.21 jiggawatts that night on Bourbon St…I figured you were just talking about the amount of alcohol in the hand grenade I gave you.

Is it the school’s fault if a kid doesn’t qualify?

And the kids that are going to greyshirt are told this beforehand. They know going in. So should they not be allowed to go to the school of their choice?

Re: Orson’s hair.
You call that “long”?

Also, why don’t we let results on the field settle this UM-Bama feud. What happened the last time they played?

To answer the question in #23, hell yes. Barring head trauma or large amounts of purple drank, most kids too stupid to get into college don’t get that way overnight, and your coaching staff needs to do its diligence on that front. Some schools — even ones with Division I-A football — find it helpful to have a special staff to help determine such things; they call it the “admissions office.”

TheMile

Please don’t send Bama fans to DawgSports. We try to keep that place rational and civil.

As one of the RBR guys, I’ll say that comments 6 & 7 are right on target. We take umbrage at his calling out of Saban and Alabama and implying that something “filthy” is going on when there is no evidence of that (either by putting on medical sholarship when they could sitll play, as he implies, or that guys are going to get kicked off the team that have shown they can and deserve to play for guys with better star ratings), and that his article was a “omg1 (pay no attention to rich rodriguez)” brought about by Joe Tiller’s comments about DickRod that had nothing to do with Saban or Alabama. And Orson, my beard thinks yours is gay (and not good gay like girls, bad gay like dudes).

Wow, Brian. Exploit players? Like give some legacy schollies, give others, like Zeke Knight and Tyrone Prothro, a medical schollie so that they can continue their educations, and threaten the old Shula slack-asses with withdrawal of their schollies? You mean, like signing more than 25 b/c you know, given a few of our head cases and softies, that attrition is about to come big time after Spring Practice? Noooo, really? Exploitation to fill out your roster to account for the few academic casualties in every recruiting class? Gimme a freakin’ break.

You write excellent analyses on most occasions; and I do enjoy your blog. However, this unfortunately, just isn’t one of those occasions. Your piece was half-informed at best, and ignorant at worst. Stick with what you know, and concede that this isn’t one of those things.

I sure hate to defend Satan but everybody in the SEC oversigns to some degree due to academic casualties.Ol’ Giggetty-Giggetty at Ole Missie has signed 32, hasn’t he? I suppose the last two are on the swimming team, a la 1970-71.

It’s just too much fun to lay it on bammer nation as they always overeract.

@ Der – are you responding to the original Fanhouse post or the new one on Mgoblog that Brian linked above? I think the mgoblog post is a much better, and, from that and his research with Orson last year, also linked above, I would say he knows a lot about this.

That casket would be a lot coller if it were in the shape of a helmet.

Reveille VII is da realest bitch I know

1. -

if you mean ‘brian knows a lot about recruting’, i’ll give you that, i don’t know shit about what he knows

if you mean ‘brian knows a lot about this year’s alabama class specifically and how saban is going to fuck over X number of players’ then you’re just blindly agreeing with him based on ..um… who knows

The response to Brian is laughable, at best. Hair attacks were his best literary blow ? Wow.
And then a “Say Anything” reference in the comments. The mantal image of Bama fans watching 80’s teen angst movies makes my gall bladder hurt.

DevilGrad, I can’t believe I am gonna defend sa6an, but…

Many many schools sign players they know good and well will have to go to JuCo or prepschool if for no other reason than to have a foot in the door when it comes time to re-recruit them later on. I feel pretty sure that most SEC and other BCS level schools do this. I know for a fact that Auburn does.

Pants

My point is that there is oversigning, and then there’s oversigning. Each team’s circumstances for 25+ is different. i.e., if you’re Ole Miss (just a name), with a track record of losing a 1/3 of your class that’s one thing; if you’re oversigning with 2*’s to play wait and see on the blue chippers that’s another. I submit that the first instance is emphatically in good faith with your marginal qualifiers, while the second is exploitative, pure and simple. The latter might be snake oil.

Just like every coach knows which recruit is not going to get the extra ACT point, thus a trip to Hargrave, every coach also knows which old roster spot is likely to be vacated at cut time. Sorry, that’s just not exploitative…that’s getting the best 85, and planning for what you’ll do after spring practice (esp. true with a new regime working with upperclassmen who aren’t yours and aren’t buying in).

ANd I forgot his closing quip: “Go Buckeyes”

WTF does that have to do with anything? I guess he didn’t want to say anything about App State because of the whole UL-M thing. Or the MSU thing.

I don’t mean:
‘brian knows a lot about this year’s alabama class specifically and how saban is going to fuck over X number of players’

I mean I think Brian and Orson spent a lot of time researching the problem of oversigning beyond the 25 limit and oversigning beyond the scholarships available (including taking into account medicals, 5th years, etc). Not Bama specific – the problem overall, which is what I think should be discussed (not Bama vs UM/Brian)

In the interest of fairness as a UM fan, I must note that Brian and Orson’s research showed that WV was the leading “oversigner” in the Big East. And now, of course, Rich Rodriguez is Michigan’s new coach. For those that didn’t click the link to Orson’s old research, WVU signed 34 in 2002 and 32 in 2005 and averaged 26 signees over the last 6 years.

So to the extent that this becomes a Michigan-Alabama fight, free to include a charge of hypocrisy.

bacon -

i think we’re in heated agreement.

If you’ve ever read OTS on rollbamaroll, you’d know he consistently authors incredibly well researched and interesting articles, in the class of smq, et al.

hindsight being 20/20 – a better article from brian would have been a discussion on the topic in general, and perhaps including a conversation with OTS, on how a specific example this year of an over signing will likely play out.

That would have been nice because (assuming you are correct) brian knows a lot about the issue in general, and OTS knows a lot about this Alabama class in particular.

But instead Brian titled his aol blogpost “nick saban = snake oil salesman” and proceeded on a rambunctious tirade against said coach and the UA recruiting class this year. Something he knows nothing about save that 32 – 25 = HOLY SHIT SABAN IS AT IT AGAIN!!!! HE’S FUCKING OVER 7 POOR CHILDREN!!!

So fuck him – it was shit journalism, and he deserves to be called out for it.

The bottom line is this, some schools actually take the time to figure out of a kid is going to be academically eligible or taking a break from crime sprees, and don’t even bother with the ones who won’t. Other schools, like West Viriginia, go after the Noel Devines, the Pat Lazaers and pretty much any talented academic ? /actual felon they can find and see what sticks.

Taking 26 or 27 one year out of four is one thing, when you hit the 30s often something is going seriously wrong. That’s up to 120 kids in 4 years with room for only 85. Either you are recruiting way too many dirtballs, or else you are actually giving the less talented players the boot. Either way, it’s bad, and quoting “histroical levels of attrition” is just another way of saying “Our coaches are inept, crooked or have no morals whatsoever”…

Tho it is likely obvious, I would like to point out I am NOT the Brian from the hated blog.

Well, since no one else is going to sling mud, I figure I will.

Brian, that was the worst piece of drivel I think I have ever read. I’ve taken shits that had more substance than that. Every single point you make about Saban and/or Alabama could easily be made about your glorious program.

Saban is going to run off players, and that makes him a Snake Oil Salesman? I guess Ryan Mallett leaving Michigan was just a thing where he wanted to move closer to the South because of the warmer weather, and RR begged him to stay? No, he was run off by that boot licking, shit eating, four flushing, turd polishing, snake oil selling son of a bitch that you call “Coach Rod”.

Saban left Miami in a bad way? Fuck, no one short of Petrino left their previous job as badly as Rich Rod did.

Oversign much? It’s already been established that your boy is well versed in it.

Quit trying to blow smoke up our asses while pretending your program is all sugar plums and puppy farts.

Eat shit and die. Stones, glass houses, pot and kettle, etc.

To condense this whole argument into one statement, Bama fans are sick of our school being held up as the poster boy for everything wrong with college football.

If something is a problem throughout the sport, don’t single us out.

Bob Stoops make $3.5 mil and Weiss makes $3.? mil, but Saban gets $4 mil and something is horribly wrong.

Bama and Miami oversign, so Saban is a snake oil salesman.

One Bama fan regularly masturbates to porn in a public libray and, oh wait, that was OSU. HAHAHA. I just remembered that and got bored of the original point of this post.

Sorry TOSUBuckeye. I know you’ll get us back for it, though.

What this really comes down to is sour grapes.

Sorry, I know your team was picked to be in the national title game last year before the season, and you fucked it up by losing to App. State, a division two school.

I’m sorry your conference always sucks when it comes to national title games. I’m sure that Michigan would do better if they could make it there, but this isn’t the 1940’s.

I’m sure that Michigan has never, EVER signed a player that may not make it academically. I’m sure they have never signed a JUCO or prep school player.

Michigan is a perfect saint, and everyone in the SEC are devil worshippers, and Lucifer himself coaches at Alabama.

I realize it is an opinion piece, but fuck, it should have some basis in reality, if only partially.

Lucifer himself coaches at Alabama.

I know you were joking, but this statement is, in fact, true.

Swindle, you have a bit of Greenskeeper Willie going on there. Well done.

I’d rather have Satan than Dumbo.

orson are you keeping an eye on this mgo/roll bama roll blog fight?? its getting dirty. if they lived any closer one of them might actually give the other one a limp wristed slap across the face.

haha…blog fighting.

Damn Steve,

Don’t sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.

Steve –
I know you’re rolling – but I will respond to a couple of your “Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?” type statements.

Appalachian State is I-AA (actually FCS, but whatever) and yes it still stings. During the Lloyd Carr era Michigan signed two JUCOs: (1) Russel Shaw – a WR on the 1997 team; and (2) Austin Panter – a reserve on the current team. As far as prep school kids, there is the matter of one Mr. Fuck Lion, but I think that’s it.

Further, I am not sure I understand the “sour grapes” remark. Certainly it can’t be sour grapes in regard to Alabama v. Michigan. One, we haven’t played since the 2000 Orange Bowl and Michigan won that game. Two, it is not as if Alabama has been dominating college football since then. If Brian’s broadside were against OSU (1-6), USC (two recent Rose Bowl defeats), or a similar team of that nature then fine. But why should Michigan care about Alabama at this time?

Maybe you are alleging SEC/Big Ten sour grapes? Seems like a reach, but ok. To the extent that it matters, while OSU has not done well against the SEC in bowls (0-9), Michigan has done quite well (7-3 and 2-1 versus Bama).

I’d rather have Satan than Dumbo.

Steve, that’s Bama is (as one of your bama brethren puts it) held up as the poster boy for everything wrong with college football.

should read: "that’s why Bama is…

Thanks, masked. I was trying to figure out the entire “our school cheats, but it’s irrelelvant because you are only complaining about it because a school from our conference (not us) beat a school from your conference (not you) in a bowl game!”. Needless to say, mapquest wasn’t helping with that shit…

Blog fight. Nice Mr. Dorsey.

Let’s just put this thing to bed already.

The SEC will concede the following:

The Big Ten Conference is morally superior to the SEC. The Big Ten does not engage in shady recruiting practices and recruits kids with character. Student athletes, and football players in particular, do not take bullshit classes once in college. In fact, there is a collaborative effort on the part of all Big Ten football players to work together to find a cure for cancer. This, of course, takes time away from practicing, but no matter. Winning isn’t everything, folks. This definitely gives the Big Ten Conference the moral high ground, as SEC players ride around on dubs smoking that dank when they should be in the bullshit classes that were scheduled for them so that they could remain eligible. This, of course, does not matter, as the “tutors” provided to the SEC athletes will most assuredly make sure that the athletes pass.

As part of this agreement, the Big Ten Conference admits that, upon information and belief, its “athletes” could not hold the jock of the Alpha male athletes in the SEC. However, the Big Ten Conference and fans of the schools therein retain the right to claim moral and intellectual superiority over the SEC and fans of teams found in the SEC by virtue of geographical location (i.e. “not in the South”) and by virtue of the pristine nature in which the programs making up the Big Ten Conference are run.

Addendums?

Pants,

I don’t really care about this argument, but oversigning doesn’t violate any rules and therefore is not “cheating”.

Tater -

Why not be pithy? “Big Ten = smart. SEC = fast.” That should about do it.

Doesn’t USC recruit and sign 40-50 running backs each year?

Biggus- But it’s Bama…I’m sure my statement still applies… :)

Yes, “oversigning” should have been used there.

And for the record, 13-13 is the record of the SEC vs. the B10 in bowl games over the last decade. If you want to specifically insult my alma mater (OSU) and you are an LSU or UF fan, fine*, but the entire conference crowing is stupid.

(*= the statute of limitations has run out for you Gamecock fans.)

masked -

I can’t bill enough time to justify an agreement that short.

i’ll say here what i said in the RBR forum, saban is a valid target for this criticism because of the attention his recruiting class recieved.

did i think brian’s way of presenting the issue was fair, much less objective to bama? hell no. but lambasting him for the manner he presented it does nothing to address the points he made in the article.

this is an ongoing problem across the ncaa, i think we can all agree on that. but trading bitchy little program vs program insults doesn’t do a damn bit of good to examine it and come up with answers or insight about it.

brian does some masterful analysis on his site, my boys over at RBR keep me updated on all the nitty gritty about the team i love. seeing the two tearing into each other doesn’t give me a hell of a lot of joy.

Sweet Jesus. An emoticon? Did I do that?

I give up. I obviously suck.

Kleph,
Nitty gritty? I thought they just served the kool-aid.

Pants,

To err is human. No need to beat yourself up. That’s for the rest of us to do, you emoticonning fairy.

fear not, TIGERinATL, nothing breaks the bond of hate we share for auburn.

LOLblogwars.

1. - The 2007 Fulmer Cup standings don’t really support your theory.

Sixty-five posts in this thread; ten in the one above it. That y’all care six times as much about some stupid off-season argument than you do about bunda is instructive — frightening, but instructive.

1. “No, Saban is not alone. No, that does not exonerate him for being a douche. Yes, I do take a narrow view of the exploitation of players. I think it’s bad.”

Agreed. Exploitation is bad. Looking forward to RichRod and Co. turning around the graduation rate of players (esp. African-American ones)

“Yes, I do take a narrow view of the exploitation of players. I think it’s bad.” — MgoBoy

I’m sorry. What a complete load of shit. Apparently, such exploitation doesn’t encompass failing to graduate even a simple majority of black football players. I suspect we can anticipate more of your tortured excuses for UM’s exploitaton of black athletes: “Black players are difficult to graduate.”

DevilGrad #67: +1000, you nailed it.

This reminds me of the beyond retarded SEC-PAC10 BlogWars of Summer 2005, and it equally pointless and silly. At moronic as that was, at least people were arguing about, you know, actual football. This is about fucking recruiting, where 1/2 the dudes never become regular players, 1/2 the all world all everything bluechippers turn out to be not very good, and 1/2 the good players on each of our favorite team’s end up being walk ons or not highly regarded HS kids who work their ass off and improve to become good players/stars.

Everyone just Ron Burgundy that shit- agree to disagree- go get laid, and move on.

Ah sports blogs, the only place where fans of a traditionally great team with great history that lost to LOUISANA-MONROE at home taunt fans of a traditionally great team with great history for losing to AppSt.

“To condense this whole argument into one statement, Bama fans are sick of our school being held up as the poster boy for everything wrong with college football.”
Then your fanbase, collectively, needs to back off holding up your school as the poster boy for everything that is great about college football.

“Sixty-five posts in this thread; ten in the one above it. That y’all care six times as much about some stupid off-season argument than you do about bunda is instructive — frightening, but instructive.”

You have 4 posts in this thread, and ZERO on the bunda thread- why not use “we” instead of “y’all”?

And while I agree with you in the sense that this thread has so many more posts than the bunda thread is telling to an extent, it is somehwat fallacious to assume that a lack of comments indicatesless interest, when bunda threads typicalyl have such few comments anyway (I’m sure I’m not the only person who just views the bunda threads for the pictures, not to make comments).

^^I cannot type today

It’s clear that this stems from a fundamental difference in opinion on what a school’s scholarship offer to a football player means. I think most schools — Big 10, SEC, wherever — feel that once you offer and the kid accepts, even if he turns out to be a dud you gotta let him keep the scholarship for the four years as long as the grades keep up and there are no citizenship issues. RBR’s (and apparently Alabama’s) position is that an unproductive player — even an underclassman who’s doing everything off the field correctly including keeping his grades up — shouldn’t have that expectation. Here’s what RBR has to say:

START QUOTE:

If you get a scholarship offer to play football, you damn well better produce or someone else is going to take your place. Is that mean? Maybe, but I don’t see you bitching about kids on academic scholarships that lose theirs because they don’t keep their grades up. Produce and contribute, you’ll be fine. Screw around and don’t live up to your end of the bargain, tough, deal with it . . . why is it that you can’t “not offer” an underclassmen another year if he isn’t a contributor to the team? Again, mutual commitment is a two street (asshole), you’re just trying to figure out a way to say cutting a player that can’t even manage to get on the three deep is “illegitimate.”

END QUOTE.

So, at least from RBR’s perspective, the issue that rationale people (and that Orson identified) might identify as providing cover for ’Bama’s actions — i.e., bad schooling leading to non-qualifying or bad grades — isn’t an issue at all. It’s weights and 40 times.

I won’t comment on whether this is the right attitude. Of course, it seems to be an unbalanced contract in that if that kid wants to play elsewhere, he’s gotta sit out a year. Maybe there should be a rule that if you yank a kid’s scholly just for being unproductive, it should count against the school for 1 year. I dunno.

If the argument is about pulling scholarships, than geez, if you look at it in reality, Saban does a better job of it than other coaches. Allow me to explain:

Saban comes in and takes over a program, installing a new offense. Player A is told that he does not fit in this offense and it would be in his best interest to transfer if he wants to see playing time. He tells this to the recruit up front. NEVER ONCE is it mentioned that he is “pulling” his scholarship. Find me one instance where he has ever done this. I’ve give you $100 bucks where he has pulled a player’s scholarship based on his on the field performance.

DickRod goes in and installs a new offense, but doesn’t tell Player B that he won’t play. He keeps him on scholarship for four years, the kid graduates and never plays a down.

In both cases, the kid keeps his scholarship. The only difference, is that one was informed that he would not be playing due to the system or to his lack of skills.

Allow me to put it into a different analogy so you might understand it better:

Two Oncologists have two patients.

Oncologist A tells patient A that he has terminal cancer, and that he has six months to live.

Oncologist B does not inform patient B that he does has very little time to live.

In the case of both of them, they both die at the same time, but one was able to prepare for it emotionally and financially, where as the other is just fucked in the end.

But I’m sure that Michigan let’s everyone who wants to play on the field. Isn’t it a mandate in the Big 10 that you have to let the scrubs play at least one quarter per game? It’s not? Well shit, from the last two BCS championship games it sure looked like that.

Steve – you are on a roll today. Scary thing is that I agree with most of your points.

I’m just sick of this holier-than-thou bullshit. There is enough hypocrisy in the college football world that we don’t need more people joining on the bandwagon.

I get it. I’m an Alabama fan, my coach is worse than Hitler.

The only difference between me and you (fans of other teams) is that I know and accept that Saban is mean enough to sandpaper a lion’s ass in a phone booth and get away with it, where as everyone else thinks their coaches don’t play these games.

The old joke about NCAA bias is true. FSU gets to “self impose” sanctions against itself, meanwhile they did everything to Alabama short of setting fire to the athletic dorms.

I actually greatly appreciate Orson’s humor on this site, because, while it does concentrate on the SEC and Florida predominantly, he does it without (much) bias. When he does crack a joke about another program, it’s in good humor.

I like Brian Cook’s blog. While it isn’t my favorite, it has some good points. The guy knows football.

But don’t shit on my plate and tell me it’s meatloaf. I don’t post (or read) in any of the Tide forums because it’s filled with a bunch of dumbasses with unrealistic expectations.

Newsflash: Every team has unrealistic fans that are a touch on the crazy side. We have alot more of them in Bama than most places, but we aren’t all like that.

Steve,

Oddly enough, my shit tastes exactly like meatloaf…or so I’ve been told. Good points. Some coaches are worse than others, but they’re almost all egomaniacs who can get pretty damned nasty if necessary. I don’t have a major problem with Saban per se, but the hype made me want him to fail. It’s the same reason I was elated when the Pats lost.

I see. You’re a hater then. Thanks for clarifying that.

“Boy, I just love to see good teams fail. Serves them right!”

Saban hasn’t done a fucking thing that hasn’t been done 100x over by other coaches.

The guy has won every place he’s been, and left them in better shape than when he went there intially. I don’t count the NFL in that, because any asshole that keeps the same players on the team the next year if they don’t fit his system is a lead paint eating dumbass. The NFL isn’t college football. You can create an entire new team from year to year if you want.

I think it’s just the combination of Saban and Alabama that creates the hate. Nothing like the great fear of a good coach and an arrogant fan base to make others hate you. I’ve never liked Miami because of the thug culture they embrace, but that’s just me. I don’t root for them, or Randy Shannon, to fail though.

The fact that 25% of the programs oversigned, several programs oversigned the same or MORE than Alabama did, and the fact that they are only jumping on Saban/Bama for doing it shows the hypocrisy present in CFB blogs/media, and the bias against anything that is Bama.

The fact is….Saban knows what the fuck he is doing….he IS gonna run off some douchebags to make room for the better incoming players, and will grayshirt some players…..he has done it before with much success, this is no different…..didnt know Michigan fans gave 2 shits one way or another

Steve,

You guys have the arrogant fanbase part down pat. The good team? Well it’s been a little while. And fear? Please. Georgia plays Alabama four out of every ten years. The last three pairs of games have involved a different Bama coach. I do hate arrogant fans though, even when they’re wearing the same colors I do. Even worse is fawning media coverage. I hated it in the case of Weis, Meyer, Tebow, the Patriots and Saban. After hearing hyperbole for a while I want failure to be as complete as possible. I still don’t let it cloud my judgement. I figured Meyer was mildly overrated, Tebow would do well, Weis was grossly overhyped, the Pats would win, and Saban will go the way of the last few Bama saviors. As for Saban winning everywhere, he had one good season at Toledo before leaving for MSU, where he was roughly .500 until his 9-2 season, after which he left for LSU. He had one great, one very good, one good, and two average seasons before he left. And he had a fairly crappy year in his first year at Bama. Their defense had personnel issues, but a lot of the same players returned from a 6-7 team and he coached them up to 7-6 with probably the most embarrassing loss in a quarter century mixed in. If anyone actually fears Saban, they’re retarded.

At least the whole college football world now knows what we put up with from the sanctimonious, holier than thou, arrogant fucks from the school up north.

"didnt know Michigan fans gave 2 shits one way or another
“

ding, ding, ding!!!

pelican pants wins. this is the biggest mystery of this entire blogosphere meltdown.

Biggus,
You’re right. Alabama is over with. Done. Kaput. I don’t know why we even play the games. We should probably just forfeit the upcoming season and not schedule any games after that.

It’s funny though, our no-talent team coached by whom you feel is not worthy of being the water boy on your team certainly took your “national championship caliber” team to overtime. It’s a shame that you guys can barely beat a team that lost to U-La-Mo.

I mean, fuck, how do you expect people to take you guys seriously?

Biggus,
I’ll say this…..this is your year to win it all or blow it for Georgia….good QB, great RB, should be a solid Defense…..all us Bama fans are saying is that there will be a change, just like the former Worlds Largest Cocktail Party used to be the annual Georgia beatdown, Richt got some great recruits-Knowshown in particular, and it made a big difference once yall hit ya stride…we too picked up some talent and hope it will have an immediate effect , like a Tebow or a Harvin, we are hoping to have at least 3 or 4 contributors that can step up….if Saban sucked so bad, he’d only get Vandy money….My money is on Saban touching the crystal again before Tubbs even gets close. Any SEC team that wins the SEC title will have to face tOSU , and that my friends is a gimme MNC game ……..

Hate is ……………. warmth.

Beating Pruett’s ass when he was coaching Marshall was fun. Doing it while he’s a coach at UVA will be funtastic. Boo Hoos. Boo.

Steve,

I didn’t actually say any of those things, but hey! Straw men are fun!

Mr. Pelican,

I never said Saban sucked, just pointing out that he isn’t God’s gift to coaching. I also don’t expect Georgia to win the national title. There’s a chance, but there’s way too much outside of their control and too many other good teams in the SEC for me to assume it’ll happen. I’ll be content with an SEC title in one of the next two years.

Biggus,

My view on Saban is that he is a better overall coach than Shula or Tubbs. I look at the amount of time a mans been coaching and look at titles and championships he has garnered as a HC, and Saban is a lil better than Tubbs, even though Tubs head to head has him 4-2, with his wins coming at his house… I dont think he is Gods gift to coaching either, just a man with a method of coaching that has seen success with his “process” with his style of players….As a Bama fan, didnt expect him to get ALL the good talent in-state his first full yr of recruiting, but glad to see his style of players are 4/5 star types that seem to buy in to his recruitment, and I’m hoping he can follow it up next year to get some depth, where when one part of the machine gets hurt or suspended ( with high strung ego-maniacal 18-22 yrs olds football players, someone will always be in the dog house with Saban or the law——ask Jimmy Johns about the Saban part) , there is no noticeable fall off in perfomance, a luxury we didnt have when we had both suspensions and injuries on offense and defense, which cost us some bonehead games down the stretch….I dont think as long as JPW is involved, we will compete for much of anything, maybe 8-5 next yr……..an outstanding QB is what we will need for us to turn the corner and I dont know who that is gonna be…maybe the Clemson game will be a big time wakeup call….I think in the ACC- Clemson’s the team to beat, the SEC-Georgia/Florida,maybe Auburn without Brandon Cox as QB, cant say Alabama since Saban made it clear JPW is the man this year, and no matter how much talent we picked up, they cant compensate for his 4th quarter snafu’s that seem to happen when the game is on the line, maybe he can redeem himself like Eli Manning did this year with the Giants…….Big 10-tFightin Redacti or tOSU as usual with their waltz to their annual MNC beatdown…Big 12- Oklahoma til they get waxed again in a bowl game……….Big East-WF’nV—curious to see how good the “Jumper” offense will be with Pat White and Noel Devine bending time/speed continium, they simply snap the ball and “poof” one “jumps” to the endzone, like the movie……PAC-10……USCw with Joe McKnight getting off this year…..I hate the offseason, this place is like a strip club at noon on Monday

MPP,

That’s pretty reasonable. I’m not sure about him being an all-around better coach than Tuberville. He’s a better recruiter, but for game prep I’d go with Tubby. Which one is more important depends on how much better a recruiter Saban is. This year would indicate that he’s much better. On the other hand it’s one year, and being able to offer playing time is a big bonus on the recruiting trail if you’re at a renowned program. But even if Saban does build up Alabama, he still has to deal with LSU on a yearly basis, Georgia and Florida semi-regularly and an Arkansas program that may actually be in capable hands. And that’s leaving aside Auburn and Tennessee (who seems to be waning with all of the coaching departures).

Did anybody notice in the text of the funeral article the sentence, “Blacks are very traditional in their funeral practice?” Where did that come from?

Really, Devil Grad made reference to Bobby P’s return to college coaching in a negative light? A Cryami guy? Really?

For the most part, Michigan fans highly resemble Alabama Polytechnic Fans; the vast majority drive of them a jacked-up truck… The vast majority are all obese… The vast majority enjoy kicking back, drinking beer, and “throwing down” at local rodeos… And of course, they talk reeeeeaaaalllllllll sllllllooooowwwwww.

Who cares, anyway? Richer Rod will only add insult to injury as a head coach of the amazing Maze and Blue.

img122.imageshack.us/ img122/69/bo7ny.jpg

TIME TO ADD SOME MORE FULMER CUP POINTS TO TENNESSEE!!!!!

http://tennessee.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=775542

And this is the PUNTER, let me mind you (albeit, he is a damn good punter who the Florida fans won’t mind being suspended for their matchup).

“When the fat man says its time to dance, its time to dance!!!”

Bama fans are unbelievable with their defense of saban and the sec’s practice of signing 30 guys a year. I’m sure they can even find a way to defend bama’s 44 percent graduation rate as well.

Don’t forget he lied to those ESPN reporters about not leaving the Dolphins to coach at Alabama. Outright lied. Knew he was going to, and said he wasn’t. I hate him SO much. Roll Tide.

Sure, he could have just said, midway through the season, that he was going to take the Alabama job.

Do you wear a helmet and drool alot? People who still bring this up are real dumbasses. Seriously.

Actually Steve, I am an Alabama fan. I think I have an understanding of Coach Saban’s comments to the media “in context”. Same with a fairly comprehensive understanding of the dynamics of the 2008 Alabama recruiting class. That’s why I am not compelled to argue with anyone that chooses to believe that he lied to them or that he somehow lied to one or more recruits. How could anyone argue with “snake oil salesman”?

I do wear a helmet and drool a lot though…

#94, your moniker is appropriate.

Everyone knows Pruett was as crooked as a drunk’s handwriting when he was at Marshall (and spare us the “crying” nonsense, there’s the full NCAA report and the dozens of player arrests to prove it). It’s not a coincidence that the Herd started getting their asses handed to them regularly in the MAC once they were forced to play by the rules.

And you won’t get any negative vibes regarding Pruett’s new gig here… most MAC fans think he fact that another university was dumb/desperate enough to give that ethics-free clown a job again is hilarious. This is going to bring the funny in future Fulmer Cup races.

So that’s where Ray Goff went.