CURIOUS INDEX, 2/14/08
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Yes, they’ve proposed rule changes. We’re going through the spice cabinet looking for the right blend of profanity to cover just what a fucking terrible ass-chancre of an idea this is. Repeat: bad idea. BAD IDEA JEANS Tennessee boots two from the team for unspecified reasons. Antonio Wardlow and Donnie Davis both had trouble in their recent past–Wardlow for a fight in November of 2006, Davis for an in-season fight in his hometown of Iowa City in October of last year–but we only get the “rules violations” tag as the reason for their dismissal. If they did do something, it’ll pop in the next few days, but if they didn’t, it’s an indication that Phil Fulmer really, really doesn’t want the Cup that bears his name. (Unless you fill it with the tasty meat sauce and a-give to the Papa! So happy he is, he dances to the song!) Nick Saban can’t count. Or worse yet, he can: Brian is shocked, shocked! in finding out that again, an SEC school has signed more recruits than they can possibly put on scholarship. Even more shocked, shocking! is the fact that it’s Nick Saban, an old hand at juggling massive signing classes: greyshirts, JUCO guys, and the old reliable: forcing people off the team because you want to put another player in his place. It’s not quite as bad as Brian paints it…but it’s cold, opportunistic roster manipulation more often seen at the NFL level. Meaning: bad. Josh Booty, sacked by police and tasered. Well, of course he was. As most SEC defenders of his era can attest, he’s easily confused and more easily caught. Bear Necessity has Pac-10 recruiting maps showing exactly what you think: desperate and against the wall with barrels pointed at him, Ty Willingham actually locked down Seattle. Part one here; part two, here. |
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1
ThreenOut says:
Before 8:20 (cst at least)? somebody’s on the ball this morning
February 14th, 2008 at 9:19 am
2
tim says:
The clock running on an out-of-bounds play is yet another “make more room for ads” ploy like last year’s “the clock runs on kickoffs” nonsense.
The rest of the rule changes actually seem to be relatively reasonable. As a fan of a team that rarely gets sideline warnings I’d love to see the violation be called immediately, bad kickoffs ought to be heavily penalized, et cetera.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:21 am
3
Because They Can says:
Eliminate the 5-yard facemask penalty? That’s just stupid. Almost as stupid as sitting around for 7:30 while some old fart reviews a play that I saw clearly in :15 using the broadcast and slow-mo on my DVR (e.g. nearly every UGA TD against UF this past year, Okie-Oregon the year before, or any of a thousand fumble calls). If it takes 7:30 to decide, then it clearly ain’t conclusive enough to overturn it (or they need to hire some replay guys without tri-focals and a walker). But we need more rules to speed up the game, don’t we?
February 14th, 2008 at 9:26 am
4
Cincy says:
Wow… I can’t say I’m looking forward to the new sideline warning rule. Of course its not like my Sooners are going to notice an extra 5-yards-per-game of penalties.
Why, Loadholt? Why?
February 14th, 2008 at 9:27 am
5
bama_buck says:
Wow Bama is one of onlly two teams who participate in this ruthless practice of oversigning. The shame I feel is truly unbearable.
How about an article on one sing football school who didn’t sing more than they have space for?
February 14th, 2008 at 9:27 am
6
bama_buck says:
sing = single/ sign
February 14th, 2008 at 9:28 am
7
King Harvest says:
That Bama piece was just that… a piece. Not only is it inaccurate, it took up a small amount of time I can never get back. I think this guy has the red ass for Saban and/or Bama.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:37 am
8
TAFKastOSUB says:
I’m telling you, oversigning leads to better overall depth. Saban is going to get to cut 4-6 guys to make room…you think he is going to cut 4-6 superstar recruits to ensure that guys who have been in the program 2-3 years can finish out? You think Julio is going to be one of the scholarships cut?
Although he is a dickface, this is what Jim Delany was talking about, there is no doubt it creates an advantage for the teams that oversign.
I would love to see the SEC cut that rule out….then let’s see how stacked teams are when the opportunity to get 25 brand spanking new guys in every year is gone.
It’s no wonder Alabama suffered so badly from being on probation and not being able to sign 25-30 guys…they were signing 18-20 like Ohio State does every year.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:40 am
9
Tater Salad says:
So OSU at full Big Ten strength would be about as good in the SEC as Alabama has been over the last 5 years? That actually sounds about right.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:45 am
10
Pants McPants says:
Sheezus…stop effing with the clock people. Just speed up the replay reviews.
Getting riod of the 5-yard facemask is a good idea, IMO. You either grab the mask or you don’t. Bumping the mask on a tackle should not be a penalty.
And bamabuck, even with the clarification, I’m not sure what your post means. The vast majority of schools outside the SEC do not oversign. The B10 does not even allow it at all by rule, for example. That’s why people always notice schools like Texas Tech and Oregon St…
February 14th, 2008 at 9:46 am
11
gerry dorsey says:
TAFKastOSUB i have a valentine’s tissue for you.
i love me some bad idea jeans. me and my friends still toss around this phrase. “what?? you’re getting married?? bad idea jeans.
however i do not love me some ncaa rule changes. are they fucking serious?? a great way to shorten the game is to give coaches another challenge?? sure thing.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:48 am
12
gerry dorsey says:
hey pants…go look at minnesota’s signing class from last week.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:49 am
13
Der Schatten says:
BB: Dead on. Brian’s waaaay off on this one. 1/4 of all teams oversigned this year. And, his assumption is faulty. He’s operating under the assumption that all the current roster will stay. Saban has already gone on record intimating a shakeup.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:50 am
14
Raider Red says:
Yeah, we signed all of 15 guys last Wednesday. Leach sure knows how to use the ol’ trapdoor.
Try looking 300 miles to the southeast. Coach Butterteeth has mastered the oversigning maneuver. Remember when Ricky Williams played minor league baseball?
February 14th, 2008 at 9:52 am
15
TIGERinATL says:
Saw something on this earlier that sounded like even incidental facemasks would get you 15 yards. This sounds like those would be no penalty at all now, which I think is good. If you let go and don’t use it to make the tackle, then no harm should mean no foul.
I also like the Idea of the 40 second clock, which should just force the officials and offense to be ready sooner and speed up the game without reducing plays too much.
February 14th, 2008 at 9:58 am
16
TIGERinATL says:
And, Cincy, you can bet that officials will still give the HC a warning – it’ll just be the under-the-table “coach, get your boys back or I’m gonna have to flag you” variety.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:03 am
17
Last Dragon says:
WTF? If you grab and let go of the facemask, its no penalty? And that’s OK? How about if you grab and let go of the defensive man. Its not holding? This is a BS rule change.
And don’t get me started on the horsecollar. Sometimes there is no other way to grab a man when you are chasing him from behind. That’s a stupid rule in the NFL that’s being brought to college.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:05 am
18
Because They Can says:
If you believe they won’t call the 5-yard variety, then you’re right that it’s a good idea. I, however, believe that games will be hugely influenced by incidental facemasks now being penalized 15 yards, which is what will happen just often enough for a fairly regular royal screwing. I hate for iffy judgemant calls to be the difference in a game. Penn Wagers and his crew are still ot there…
February 14th, 2008 at 10:07 am
19
DoubleDawg05 says:
I like the implementation of “The Auburn Rule.” You know, the new rule that makes chop-blocking easier to call and penalize.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:10 am
20
Crabapple Buck says:
It is amazing to me that they continually fuck with the greatest game in America. If you take out OT, I would bet that the games are not much past 3 hours long. Apparently they forgot the clock rule change debacle of 2 years ago. The incidental FM was put in to prevent the major FM. These idiots should do something about the TO’s a split second before the play. Coaches should only be able to call TO with 5 secs or more on the 25 second clock not at 0.1. Leave it to college presidents/AD’s/coaches to eff up the greatest game in America.
LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!1!
February 14th, 2008 at 10:13 am
21
sandman227 says:
I actually agree with the removal of the 5 yd facemak penalty…but what it will do is introduce “gamesmanship” into the equation: guys turning their necks whenever they see a hand flash in front of their face.
The horsecollar rule, on the other hand, is just plain stupidity. How the fuck else are you supposed to catch a guy that’s running away from you?
Oh, and Brian’s article was pretty laughable….thanks for the morning chuckle.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:15 am
22
beckett929 says:
these rule changes are retarded… ‘to speed up the game’? how about not wasting 20 minutes of my life watching a fag in silver pants dance before kickoff of the 7:45 games?
How about we just install trapdoors all over the field so when a player gets hurt we can just have him instantly removed? That’ll speed shit up…. fucking Christ this is ridiculous.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:16 am
23
ehrenb says:
#17:
It’s also extremely dangerous – probably the third most dangerous move in football behind blows to the head and the chop block. If that’s the only way you can tackle someone, maybe you shouldn’t have gotten burned by him in the first place.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:16 am
24
Berdingo says:
Crabapple Buck –
I hate the last second timeouts on FGs, too, but I don’t think you can limit it to the last 5 seconds of the play clock. There are times when the QB calls a last second timeout because they can’t get the snap off in time, which I don’t have a problem with. Or the defense is substituting late and can’t get the 12th man off the field on time without calling a last second timeout. I think the rules need to allow for timeouts in those situations to avoid the penalties.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:18 am
25
Biggus Rickus says:
Because They Can,
The enforcement of all face mask penalties as personal fouls actually limits the judgement call aspect. I’m all for that change. The only one I dislike is the out of bounds rule.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:21 am
26
Crabapple Buck says:
Berdingo – I agree the players should be able to call TO anytime. But coaches standing next to the ref and waiting till the last split second can fuck themselves. I’m looking at you Urb.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:22 am
27
Berdingo says:
Also, why the @#$%#$ do we need to speed up the greatest sport on earth? Unless my team is involved, or there is some other motivation, I pray for overtime so I can watch longer.
Maybe there should be some deal with the “TV people” that if the game is sped up they will stop putting the dancing little ads in the corner of the screen for whatever lame-ass show they are pimping during the game. That might make it worthwhile…
February 14th, 2008 at 10:23 am
28
TIGERinATL says:
23
I think crabapple was just talking about limiting when a COACH can call a TO – not a player. Personally, I don’t think coaches should be allowed to call TOs at all.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:23 am
29
Picture Me Rollin says:
You cannot bring in more than 25 a year so it doesn’t matter how many you run off. But, since you can bring in 25 it makes since that you bring in all 25 and not penalize yourself for giving an offer to a kid who might or might not make it academically.
Stop whining Big Ten – I thought smarts was your strong suit. Use your smarts to make your teams better instead of bitching.
My favorite part of the article- shorten games at the request of TV networks. Soon it will be 2 and a half hours of commercials and 30 minutes of football. What a joke. It’s like letting crack dealers write the drug enforcement laws.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:26 am
30
lt.winslow says:
uh… i can’t speak for little nicky, but as far as miami is concerned… the ncaa allows 85 scholarships total. miami had open scholarship spots from last yr, 5 of miami’s recruits enrolled in classes in january, thus counting towards last yr’s scholarships, leaving 2 or 3 kids who might have to go to prep school for a yr.
don’t hate.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:27 am
31
bamafanintigerland says:
Yes its 32….but you can really take off 2 already since they backcount to last year’s recruiting class.
and of course the Ohio St. fan singles out the SEC when every other BCS conference does it as well.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:28 am
32
Picture Me Rollin says:
@ 22 – how would the Ohio State players ever tackle and SEC player then. Isn’t Burn what their secondary coverage is called? Or is that just in the Championship Game?
February 14th, 2008 at 10:30 am
33
Notre Dan says:
Screwing with the clock = bad. Games should be longer, not shorter. We only get to watch the greatest game on earth from Sept-Nov with a few games sprinkled beyond that. Unless you remove commercials, don’t mess with the time.
Eliminate 5-yard facemask = okay. A much better solution to this rule would be to keep the call, tack the yards on to the end of the play and play on. But to give a team the result of the play, 5 yards, AND the down over again is crazy. It’s not like holding where the team must make a decision as to whether to accept the play OR the penalty. This rule must be changed and eliminating it is better than keeping it the way it is.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:30 am
34
Last Dragon says:
#22 – it doesn’t always have to do with getting burned. There are times when a back turns the corner on a run and backside pursuit has to catch up from behind. Have you ever played the game? Grabbing the back of the collar is simply the only way to get ahold of the ball carrier is some instance. Its dangerous? Hell – running into people full speed in any context is dangerous. But it is football….
February 14th, 2008 at 10:31 am
35
Biggus Rickus says:
What’s makes the horse-collar especially dangerous? I’ve never seen anyone get injured on such a tackle.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:34 am
36
Troy says:
“Among the other recommendations: abolishing the 5-yard incidental face-mask penalty”
What?
“The proposed change will make an out-of-bounds play just like a first down, after which the clock is started when the official marks the ball ready for play. ”
What?!
But the clock will not start until the snap during the final two minutes of each half to protect the two-minute offenses.
OK, well thank God for that, but still…
February 14th, 2008 at 10:35 am
37
TIGERinATL says:
Biggus,
I depends on how you read it. The interpretation in Orson’s link reads like the old 5-yard FMs would be no-calls. I have also seen it stated like this, which sounds like even incidental FMs get 15 yard penalties. Who knows how it really is.
And on speeding up the game, I have the opposite view of Berdingo. I am all for in-game advertising such as corner adds or ones superimposed on the field a-la soccer if it were to mean more football and fewer commercial breaks.
It would also make fans posting game footage on youtube a good thing for networks, as advertisers would likely pay a premium to get field ad time on bigtime games that have the potential to be viewed online for years to come.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:37 am
38
TIGERinATL says:
http://blog.al.com/trackingtigers/2008/02/new_rules_could_have_significa.html
February 14th, 2008 at 10:40 am
39
King Harvest says:
#33 Ask Donovan McNabb
February 14th, 2008 at 10:40 am
40
bamafanintigerland says:
#33 and #37
And T.O.
the out of bound rules clock stoppage rule is pretty much the NFL rule as well now.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:43 am
41
Papa Lou BSU says:
Yes, let’s make college football more like the NFL, the most boring version of football on the planet.
Hate, hate, HATE all of the proposed changes save for the extra challenge (if you get it right, you should keep it).
February 14th, 2008 at 10:43 am
42
TIGERinATL says:
Wasn’t TO knocked out of most of the 2005 playoffs by a horse collar?
February 14th, 2008 at 10:44 am
43
Coop says:
I am not reading that article, as that guy is an idiot, because, “oversigning” is a myth, or it should not be exaggerated to this level.
You have kids who went to prep school last year, or early enrollees from high school, that are allowed to count against the previous year’s class.
You have greyshirts, you have kids who will not qualify, but you won’t to place them so you can sign them next year.
And, to get under 85, to get under the 25 rule, you always have attrition via:
1) A 5th year senior not returning, his choice or the coach’s, as there is no reason for him to return. FYI, these are all supposed to be 4 year scholarships, but more importantly, these are a series of 4 1 year scholarships, anyway.
If you can’t graduate, which is why you are supposed to attend college in the first place, in 4 years with the summer schools thrown b/c you are there taking them to stay eligible, then that is your fault.
Get a student loan for your last year. People do it all the time. I am paying mine back from grad school as we speak.
2) Medical exemptions: You can stay on scholarship, you just are not playing. The NCAA lets you do that, and you were not going to see the field again due to your shoulder, back, knee, etc…so go get your degree and be a student assistant if you want to.
3) Fulmer Cup or “violation of team rules,” if you are not important to the team, I suggest walking the straight and narrow, b/c every coach loves dismissing a player who is not going to play anyway to prove that he is a “disciplinarian.”
4) Taking scholarships from walk ons you gave one to last year. They understand, not to mention appreciate, that these scholarships are a series of 1 year contracts. Thus, they are not, in good faith, expecting their last 2-3 years to be covered. There is a reason they were not recruited.
At the end of the day, oversigning is a myth, a stupid myth.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:46 am
44
TIGERinATL says:
#39 – The NFL is boring because, ironically, all the players are too good and you’re just waiting for the team who makes the most mistakes to lose – and the fact that a 9-7 team can make the Super Bowl. Individual regular season games don’t mean as much as in college.
It’s not boring because of the game rules.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:48 am
45
bamafanintigerland says:
Quick question:
Alabama had 3 scholarship players (off the top of my head) that transferred (Barnes, Schreiber, Stadler) during the 2007 year…does that allow Alabama to bring in extra guys as well.
Others injured by Roy Williams in 2004: Musa Smith and Tyrone Calico.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:50 am
46
Govemit Cheese says:
Alabama’s signing class:
1. 2 backcounters enrolled in January and counted against 2007 (32-2 = 30)
2. 1 Bryant scholly – Wes Neighbors (will not count as against the 25 or the 85 if he does not see the first two years) (30-1 = 29)
3. Potentially, at least 3 players who can pay thier own way and come from families that are Alabama supporters – Love, Barret Jones, Smelley (and thus do not count against the 25 or the 85) (29-3 = 26)
4. 2-3 potential non-qualifiers, 1 potential baseball draftee (Hood) (26-2 = 2)
Any current scholarshipped player whose athletic scholarship is not renewed will be allowed remain on scholarship in a non-athletic capacity, such as equipment managers or trainers.
Too bad that Yankee ain’t got the good sense to investigate before he runs his mouth.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:50 am
47
ehrenb says:
#34:
Yes, I played for 5 years…it’s not usually that bad when it’s close to the line, and that probably won’t get called. I can only imagine the rule is to stop guys from doing it on down field and sideline plays, where it seems to be an automatic ankle or knee injury if the tacklee has any kind of speed built up.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:52 am
48
Not the mama says:
I hope the NCAA doesn’t find out about Nick Saban selling the snake oil… I believe they consider that their personal franchise.
February 14th, 2008 at 10:54 am
49
tbone says:
the horse-collar while rolling up the guy from behind is a shitheel move. dive and catch his legs or take your 15, Roy.
Saban is operating within the rules. Getting pissy about it is stupid. So is pretending he doesn’t have the aroma of skeeze or refusing to admit that the SEC is the lead dog on recruiting non-qualifiers/oversigning.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:03 am
50
Picture Me Rollin says:
@45 – My understanding is that you cannot bring in more than 25 scholarship players a year. Even if a whole class of players leaves you cannot add a scholarship over 25 to replace those. Think about it like this – 25 per year times 4 years is 100 scholarships. That’s 15 over the max you can have. Some classes are under 25 to keep them from going over 85 total. Also if there are upper class scholarships available then they can be given to walk ons already in the program but not to t freshman that would be over the 25th scholarship. I have not seen the numbers yet but this coming season at Alabama is probably the first time they will be back to 85 total since probation.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:05 am
51
pwnd@appstate.edu says:
Brian is a fucking idiot
Excellent retort at http://www.rollbamaroll.com, would love to see him go there and try defending himself against the outright garbage he posted at his *ahem* fanhouse
February 14th, 2008 at 11:08 am
52
TIGERinATL says:
The 25 per year rule is important because if not for that a team could get back to 85 the first year after probation, instead of taking 2-3 years to catch back up.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:08 am
53
reb pup says:
Not mentioned in any of the rules changes or our discussions is the disconnect between the replay official, who works in the booth, and the referee who is on the field.
My opinion is that the evaluation of the replay should be done by an on the field official who can use his participation in the call on the field as context in which the call can be confirmed or reversed. There may be things that were seen on the field that are not apparent to a booth official, that when combined with a video review could lead to a more successful evaluation of the call in question.
I believe the NFL system is superior to the college system in this respect.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:11 am
54
Coop says:
Um, “government cheese,” if you think that Barrett Jones and Tyler Love are paying their way to Alabama, then I have some beautiful property to sell you on Auburn Avenue in Atlanta, just off of MLK.
Both would tell Saban to go F himself had he asked them to walk on at Alabama.
And the arrogance, or idiocy, of you to even speculated on that being a possibility, preferring to pay their way to college when they both had offers from every other school in the SEC, not to mention the ACC, Southern Cal, etc etc etc…
yeah, you are an Alabama fan.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:16 am
55
Coop says:
53 – insert “have” between to and even.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:17 am
56
Picture Me Rollin says:
Coop, I agree with you that the players in question are going to go to school on the scholarship and not Mom and Dad’s money, but you seem awful mad about having to say that. Are you still upset about Jerrell Harris not choosing Clemson?
February 14th, 2008 at 11:26 am
57
Last Dragon says:
#47 – We went all these years with no horsecollar rule and no one noticing. A big name like T.O. gets hurt with one and all of a sudden its an outrage. PLEASE!!!
February 14th, 2008 at 11:27 am
58
Tater Salad says:
Coop-
I think Mr. Cheese’s statement comes from the BOL main board. There were a lot of rumblings that some players’ families had offered to pay their own way to make room for more players. It’s my understanding that, once you’ve been recruited, you can’t do this, so it doesn’t really matter if they offered to do so or not.
But I don’t think Saban would ever ask someone with that many offers to walk on. Too big of a risk.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:37 am
59
WarCardinals says:
Why do they want to speed up the game so badly? I say slow it down. My favorite times of the year are the three hours I’m watching my team on Saturdays, why not make it like seven hours?
February 14th, 2008 at 11:39 am
60
Brian O'Blivion says:
How many times do we have to see a fumble that cannot be challenged because they ruled it incomplete on the field? I’ve seen plays where the incomplete call did not come until well after the play was over, and then there is no recourse for a play that was obviously a fumble.
I understand that if a play is immediately called incomplete, you cannot challenge, because the players may have stopped playing. But if there was no immediate whistle and incomplete call, that play should be challengeable. That said, refs should not make that immediate call unless it’s absolutely obvious it’s incomplete. Possession calls, more than any other type, decide games.
The rules of this might have changed in college vs. NFL, so someone please add to this if you know more.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:42 am
61
Govemit Cheese says:
“Chicken” Coop –
Do you know their families, in that you can conclusively say that the parents will not pay for their children to attend Alabama? Do you realize that both have parents who attended UA?
Just b/c schools such as Southern Miss, UCF, or Clempson do not have alumni-parent-fans willing to support the school and football program by paying the way for their child-stars to attend, fails to see that more established programs have that benefit.
And yes, yes I am an Alabama fan. KMA.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:44 am
62
oc phil says:
An offer to walk on for a highly recruited prospect is like being at a party with a bunch of hot women eager to go home with you and then deciding to actually leave with a woman who expects you to pay for it.
It puts you in a different category, and it just isn’t going to happen very often.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:45 am
63
Govemit Cheese says:
And Coop-
I am not suggesting Saban asked. I am suggesting these players’ parents volunteered, in order to help Alabama during the years that their sons will be playing footbal there.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:46 am
64
bamafanintigerland says:
Can we get J.P. to pay for his college then? I mean his mom was a cheerleader?
I doubt that any of the three will have their parents pay their way into school. We did not make Brodie to do that, we did not make the Castille’s do that and that was when an extra scholarship or two would have been nice. It is most likely that Destin Hood is going the baseball route, that one or two guys greyshirt, and 2 or 3 do not qualify (hopefully one of those is not Alonzo Lawrence).
February 14th, 2008 at 11:51 am
65
Picture Me Rollin says:
Cheese, as an Alabama fan I’m asking you nicely, please stop being that guy.
Those guys parents 1)are not going to pay for them and 2) couldn’t if they wanted to 3) and don’t want to. You are also wrong in that if there was somebody that stupid enough at Alabama to pay for their kid with an offer on the table then there would be people that stupid at just about any major college program out there. There are kids whose parents pay for them to go to school and play football and they refer to them as walk-ons.
I believe Coop might have been a little aggressive in his response, but he is right. You’re not making up for it by explaining it.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
66
Because They Can says:
Any coach who would pull a schollie from a former walk-on to sign a big name is a douche. Period.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
67
Govemit Cheese says:
Rollin –
FWIW, I do not think we called David Cavan a “walk-on” when his parents paid for him.
And again, I do not think its so far out of the realm of the possible as you and others seem to think. If it makes me “that guy,” then all I can say is I have been called worse.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
68
Coop says:
These guys signed LOIs to play in Tuscaloosa, these guys had paperwork delivered to them far before NSD.
Walk ons do not sign LOIs, GC.
Also, there are several differences between scholarship players and walk ons in that walk ons do not receive several benefits that scholarship players do, in addition to free tuition and room and board and meals obviously, that you can view for yourself in the NCAA rulebook.
But, you folks have had an aversion to reading from that text in the past, as I recall.
As for Jerrell Harris, can’t get too upset about someone we never expected to sign. Now, had someone like Bowers or Freeman, SC boys, signed with Alabama over Clemson, certainly I would be upset.
However, the chances of Clemson going into Gadsden City or Birmingham or wherever and signing someone that both Alabama and Auburn covet are somewhere between slim and none.
Anyway, see you during the Labor Day weekend in Atlanta.
JPW looks to be just the right sort of QB to unveil our revamped DL upon.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
69
Tater Salad says:
As I understand it, a coach can’t pull the scholly. The AD has to. I really don’t think he is just going to yank a scholarship from a kid that is doing everything right and just isn’t cutting it. More likely, he has an idea of a number of kids that aren’t “buying into the system” and will probably be transferring. Just a guess.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
70
Coop says:
68 – File your first sentence under “S” for semantics.
Regardless, what always happens is a coach, definitely like Saban, tells a kid that it is not going to work out for him at Alabama, and he can either ride the pine and play on the scout team until the 4 year obligation is up, or he can quit, transfer, etc.
It happens everywhere, especially at schools with new coaches and/or coaches who have been on campus for a year, long enough to evaluate the current talent.
People hear the above and say, “a scholarship is still a scholarship, so I don’t believe kids would leave,”
but they have no clue how much time and effort are required to play Division I football.
And, these kids aren’t really dying to do mat drills in February at 6AM for the honor of dressing out and sitting on the bench all season.
Saban or whomever does not say, I am yanking your scholarship, at least not directly…
but that is exactly what each coach is telling these kids.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
71
yoyofutbawl says:
Does this mean that Ty Willingham has built a fence around Seattle?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
72
Tater Salad says:
Coop,
I’m pretty much agreeing with you on all of that, but IMO there is a difference in an Athletic Director actually pulling a kid’s scholarship to make room for better players and a head coach telling a kid truthfully that he won’t play a snap. Sure, they achieve the same thing most of the time, but in one scenario at least the player still has a choice (though maybe not a very meaningful one).
February 14th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
73
Steve says:
That article from Brian Cook was pure horseshit.
Does the guy check any facts before he flings poo at Saban?
I know it wasn’t mentioned here, but Rivals and Scout only account for the top 20 or 25 players in a class when rating them, meaning you could sign 100 players, and you could only count the top 20 or 25 (I forget which one is for which service.)
And there aren’t any players that are going to pay their own way if they were offered a scholarship. Doesn’t matter anyway, as if they’ve signed a letter of intent, even if they walk on, they count against the 25. Doesn’t matter if they get an academic scholarship or not.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
74
Dash says:
#64 John Parker Wilson’s parents did pay his way the the first semester. He was a gray shirt and joined the team the next Sping.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
75
Picture Me Rollin says:
Last time on this Cheese: A kid can come in with alternative funding but cannot play for a certain period of time, that’s why some of the players mentioned are not having their parents pay (or anybody else for that matter). That was the deal with Cavan,. didn’t play nor count his first two years (I think) If a kid comes in for example on a Bryant Scholarship and plays within the first two seasons they count against the 25. If that were not the case then there would be all types of ways to get talented kids in that were not on scholarship. There would be a lot parents and uncles and aunts paying for their sons and nephews to go to school to play football at higher rates at the better-funded programs. So, I concede that you may partially be right but if they are a serious talent and they come and play they count against the 25 (and 85). I am pretty sure that walk-ons cannot play their first two seasons unless they are transfers (a la Mustin, sat first year (3rd year eligible), walk-on second year (4th yr el.) and scholly 3rd year (5th yr el.) My point is that if you play early, it doesn’t matter where your tuition (and any other benefit) comes from, you count against the scholarship limits. In short, Tyler Love’s nor Barret Jones’ (probably) parents are not paying for him to go to school. Neighbors and Smelley (less likely) are candidates for alternate school funding (Bryant, academic, or parents) and might not count against the max but they will not play.
Oh and Coop, I’ll concede that Alabama probably loses to Clemson in August, I was just poking at you on the Harris thing based on your comments a week before signing day.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
76
CapstoneAlum says:
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/story/2008/2/14/9229/08863#commenttop
TAFKAtOSUB might like the last line of the post.
My only question is why he chose to write this? Cause his boy RR got called a snake oil salesman?
February 14th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
77
Dash says:
I’m sure that Tyler Love will be one of the 25 in the fall because he has a real chance at being the starting RT. I think Smelley and Neighbors will grayshirt and join the team in the Spring and count against ‘09 as they will have no chance at seeing the field early . Barrett Jones can contribute early but I think he’s a grayshirt candidate if they need the space for somone else.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
78
bama_buck says:
I did not realize that Big 10 schools cannot oversign.
I stand corrected. Any other BCS confernce have that rule?
Just to clarify, of the 32 that signed, two have backcounted as grey shirts.
Even if a player somehow enrolls on an non-athletic Bryant schlarship, once they are in a position to contribute in any way they must be counted against the 85, if not against the 25 original signees. I’m not sure how that works.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
79
Coop says:
I think today proves what has been fairly obvious to all of us who have read EDSBS regarding TAFKA’s posts and replies…
when a Big 10, or really any other conference other than the SEC but especially the Big 10, fan , preferably from Michigan or Ohio State, attacks someone from the SEC, or the SEC in general, business, and Internet hits, pick up.
How hard is it to deduce that if you write a column like this that you know is guaranteed to incite its readers, that your readers and website hits will increase by a factor of 10 or so.
I get that Mr. M Go Blog is all about making his point and does not care whether anyone reads him or not, but it was not by coincidence that he put this article on that Funhouse page instead of MGoBlog.
He has written several non-Michigan related articles on MGoBlog before, or those as loosely connected to Michigan as this article is.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
80
tbone says:
well, fuck, he obviously wrote it because his boy RR got called a snake oil salesman.
that doesn’t mean Saban isn’t a snake oil salesman as well.
or detract from the apparent fact that a number of other guys appear to be a little loose on the truthiness when it comes to recruiting (phone call for Mr. Meyer?). but, shit, for the most part, that IS recruiting. you either have something really good to sell or you’re blowing smoke up people’s asses.
signing ineligible kids…whatever. greyshirting, EE, to make this year’s #s count against next/last years…whatever. eventually the 25/yr thing gets you. hell, Notre Dame signed like 28 kids a year or two ago, and I would guess they can all spell. the suspect thing, IMO, is when schools bring in 125 eligible kids in a 5 year period, because you know that they are throwing the underperformers under the bus to make room for the next class.
that may be SOP someplaces, but not everybody gets to do that. of course, not everybody gets a free $700k house and $290k worth of cash to play either.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
81
NewAZTiger says:
#19 – the “Auburn” chop block was illegal and the ref just missed it. Typical day in the SEC.
BTW, Alabama chop-blocked Dorsey the next week and didn’t recieve much attention from it.
And if you mention it again, I’m coming over to your house and I’m going to chop block you, your wife, your dog, your college roomate, the mailman, the pool-boy (yes, I’ll do it in the cabana), and your grandmother, because we all know she’s faking injury with that 4 wheeled walker.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
82
justanotherbuckye says:
Steve,
Your argument about only the top 20 or 25 still doesn’t work. All those 2 and 3 star recruits drop off the and make the class seem even better. Now if they only took the bottom 20 or 25 than you’ve got a point.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
83
JTG says:
Ty is under pressure and about to get fired so he gets every recruit in Seattle?
You may label that success, but based on his track record, I label that “still too lazy to get off his ass and recruit more than a two hour drive from his tee time at his country club.”
It’s easier to get everyone in town when you never leave town.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
84
tbone says:
#82
actually, the recruiting rating is based off of points (not an average star rating), so if Rivals/Scouts counted all 32 the Alabama class would have a higher total rating.
only counting the top 25 is a reasonable way to compare 25+ person classes. assuming (wrongly), that its going to be the 2 and 3 star recruits who end up ineligible. when it comes to the ineligible, there is a strong good/dumb correlation.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
85
TIGERinATL says:
Here’s a novel idea: Rank the recruiting classes after 4 years of college ball.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
86
bamafanintigerland says:
#85
we do, its called the W-L record.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
87
oc phil says:
#85 But then you can’t project your fantasies and aspirations towards an MNC or two that you are sure to get. Recruiting obsession is all about the FUTURE, not reality.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
88
The Artist Formerly Known as tOSUBuckeyes says:
76
Your boy over at rollbamaroll is an ass clown. He said Bama won’t have many academic non-qualifiers, maybe 3-4. Then entire Big Ten had 4 last year. 1 is too many.
The bottom line is that Alabama is going to take a full 25 guys and cut about 4-6 guys. And Nick Saban will do the same thing next year…he did this at LSU, taking large classes every single year.
Let’s all just be honest and admit that there is a big difference in recruiting practices and roster maintenance between the two conferences. Last year the Big Ten had 4 academic non-qualifiers and the SEC had over 40.
I don’t think Jim Tressel has ever signed more than 22 guys to a single class and he has put twice as many guys in the Pro’s as Nick Saban.
February 14th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
89
NewAZTiger says:
Jim Tressel would choke on Nick Saban’s Cock if they met in a Bowl game.
That’s an Ohio State tradition.
Now look what you’ve made me do – I feel dirty. I’ve got to go and say 25 Auburn Creeds and sing the Fight Song 50 times.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
90
NewAZTiger says:
Oh, yeah, and I’m coming to your house to Chop-Block you and your ass-spleunking Gerbil.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
91
bamafanintigerland says:
#88
Going by Rivals. Tressel signed 26 in 2002 (god dammit its suppose to be 25!!!) and 25 in 2004. Now I know no one did not qualify because that never happens in the Big Ten.
Sadly, the non-qualifiers is more about the sad state of schools in the South as well as lack of care/concern on some of the student athletes. At least they got the Big East to fall back onto.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:13 am
92
justanotherbuckye says:
“Sadly, the non-qualifiers is more about the sad state of schools in the South as well as lack of care/concern on some of the student athletes.”
This we can agree on……………..yet, why let it continue into college?
February 15th, 2008 at 7:17 am
93
Pants McPants says:
Wayyyy too late now, but for that TTU fan whining about my calling them out, I apologize. I don’t know why I though TTU oversigned, if it was the 26 they signed last year, or maybe the THIRTY FOUR they signed in 2006. Maybe it was the 26 in 2004. Anyhoo, my bad.
February 15th, 2008 at 9:13 am