CURIOUS INDEX, 2/14/08
 |
||
|
Yes, they’ve proposed rule changes. We’re going through the spice cabinet looking for the right blend of profanity to cover just what a fucking terrible ass-chancre of an idea this is. Repeat: bad idea. BAD IDEA JEANS Tennessee boots two from the team for unspecified reasons. Antonio Wardlow and Donnie Davis both had trouble in their recent past–Wardlow for a fight in November of 2006, Davis for an in-season fight in his hometown of Iowa City in October of last year–but we only get the “rules violations” tag as the reason for their dismissal. If they did do something, it’ll pop in the next few days, but if they didn’t, it’s an indication that Phil Fulmer really, really doesn’t want the Cup that bears his name. (Unless you fill it with the tasty meat sauce and a-give to the Papa! So happy he is, he dances to the song!) Nick Saban can’t count. Or worse yet, he can: Brian is shocked, shocked! in finding out that again, an SEC school has signed more recruits than they can possibly put on scholarship. Even more shocked, shocking! is the fact that it’s Nick Saban, an old hand at juggling massive signing classes: greyshirts, JUCO guys, and the old reliable: forcing people off the team because you want to put another player in his place. It’s not quite as bad as Brian paints it…but it’s cold, opportunistic roster manipulation more often seen at the NFL level. Meaning: bad. Josh Booty, sacked by police and tasered. Well, of course he was. As most SEC defenders of his era can attest, he’s easily confused and more easily caught. Bear Necessity has Pac-10 recruiting maps showing exactly what you think: desperate and against the wall with barrels pointed at him, Ty Willingham actually locked down Seattle. Part one here; part two, here. |
||
 |
||
Loading ...
51
pwnd@appstate.edu says:
Brian is a fucking idiot
Excellent retort at http://www.rollbamaroll.com, would love to see him go there and try defending himself against the outright garbage he posted at his *ahem* fanhouse
February 14th, 2008 at 11:08 am
52
TIGERinATL says:
The 25 per year rule is important because if not for that a team could get back to 85 the first year after probation, instead of taking 2-3 years to catch back up.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:08 am
53
reb pup says:
Not mentioned in any of the rules changes or our discussions is the disconnect between the replay official, who works in the booth, and the referee who is on the field.
My opinion is that the evaluation of the replay should be done by an on the field official who can use his participation in the call on the field as context in which the call can be confirmed or reversed. There may be things that were seen on the field that are not apparent to a booth official, that when combined with a video review could lead to a more successful evaluation of the call in question.
I believe the NFL system is superior to the college system in this respect.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:11 am
54
Coop says:
Um, “government cheese,” if you think that Barrett Jones and Tyler Love are paying their way to Alabama, then I have some beautiful property to sell you on Auburn Avenue in Atlanta, just off of MLK.
Both would tell Saban to go F himself had he asked them to walk on at Alabama.
And the arrogance, or idiocy, of you to even speculated on that being a possibility, preferring to pay their way to college when they both had offers from every other school in the SEC, not to mention the ACC, Southern Cal, etc etc etc…
yeah, you are an Alabama fan.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:16 am
55
Coop says:
53 – insert “have” between to and even.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:17 am
56
Picture Me Rollin says:
Coop, I agree with you that the players in question are going to go to school on the scholarship and not Mom and Dad’s money, but you seem awful mad about having to say that. Are you still upset about Jerrell Harris not choosing Clemson?
February 14th, 2008 at 11:26 am
57
Last Dragon says:
#47 – We went all these years with no horsecollar rule and no one noticing. A big name like T.O. gets hurt with one and all of a sudden its an outrage. PLEASE!!!
February 14th, 2008 at 11:27 am
58
Tater Salad says:
Coop-
I think Mr. Cheese’s statement comes from the BOL main board. There were a lot of rumblings that some players’ families had offered to pay their own way to make room for more players. It’s my understanding that, once you’ve been recruited, you can’t do this, so it doesn’t really matter if they offered to do so or not.
But I don’t think Saban would ever ask someone with that many offers to walk on. Too big of a risk.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:37 am
59
WarCardinals says:
Why do they want to speed up the game so badly? I say slow it down. My favorite times of the year are the three hours I’m watching my team on Saturdays, why not make it like seven hours?
February 14th, 2008 at 11:39 am
60
Brian O'Blivion says:
How many times do we have to see a fumble that cannot be challenged because they ruled it incomplete on the field? I’ve seen plays where the incomplete call did not come until well after the play was over, and then there is no recourse for a play that was obviously a fumble.
I understand that if a play is immediately called incomplete, you cannot challenge, because the players may have stopped playing. But if there was no immediate whistle and incomplete call, that play should be challengeable. That said, refs should not make that immediate call unless it’s absolutely obvious it’s incomplete. Possession calls, more than any other type, decide games.
The rules of this might have changed in college vs. NFL, so someone please add to this if you know more.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:42 am
61
Govemit Cheese says:
“Chicken” Coop –
Do you know their families, in that you can conclusively say that the parents will not pay for their children to attend Alabama? Do you realize that both have parents who attended UA?
Just b/c schools such as Southern Miss, UCF, or Clempson do not have alumni-parent-fans willing to support the school and football program by paying the way for their child-stars to attend, fails to see that more established programs have that benefit.
And yes, yes I am an Alabama fan. KMA.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:44 am
62
oc phil says:
An offer to walk on for a highly recruited prospect is like being at a party with a bunch of hot women eager to go home with you and then deciding to actually leave with a woman who expects you to pay for it.
It puts you in a different category, and it just isn’t going to happen very often.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:45 am
63
Govemit Cheese says:
And Coop-
I am not suggesting Saban asked. I am suggesting these players’ parents volunteered, in order to help Alabama during the years that their sons will be playing footbal there.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:46 am
64
bamafanintigerland says:
Can we get J.P. to pay for his college then? I mean his mom was a cheerleader?
I doubt that any of the three will have their parents pay their way into school. We did not make Brodie to do that, we did not make the Castille’s do that and that was when an extra scholarship or two would have been nice. It is most likely that Destin Hood is going the baseball route, that one or two guys greyshirt, and 2 or 3 do not qualify (hopefully one of those is not Alonzo Lawrence).
February 14th, 2008 at 11:51 am
65
Picture Me Rollin says:
Cheese, as an Alabama fan I’m asking you nicely, please stop being that guy.
Those guys parents 1)are not going to pay for them and 2) couldn’t if they wanted to 3) and don’t want to. You are also wrong in that if there was somebody that stupid enough at Alabama to pay for their kid with an offer on the table then there would be people that stupid at just about any major college program out there. There are kids whose parents pay for them to go to school and play football and they refer to them as walk-ons.
I believe Coop might have been a little aggressive in his response, but he is right. You’re not making up for it by explaining it.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
66
Because They Can says:
Any coach who would pull a schollie from a former walk-on to sign a big name is a douche. Period.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
67
Govemit Cheese says:
Rollin –
FWIW, I do not think we called David Cavan a “walk-on” when his parents paid for him.
And again, I do not think its so far out of the realm of the possible as you and others seem to think. If it makes me “that guy,” then all I can say is I have been called worse.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
68
Coop says:
These guys signed LOIs to play in Tuscaloosa, these guys had paperwork delivered to them far before NSD.
Walk ons do not sign LOIs, GC.
Also, there are several differences between scholarship players and walk ons in that walk ons do not receive several benefits that scholarship players do, in addition to free tuition and room and board and meals obviously, that you can view for yourself in the NCAA rulebook.
But, you folks have had an aversion to reading from that text in the past, as I recall.
As for Jerrell Harris, can’t get too upset about someone we never expected to sign. Now, had someone like Bowers or Freeman, SC boys, signed with Alabama over Clemson, certainly I would be upset.
However, the chances of Clemson going into Gadsden City or Birmingham or wherever and signing someone that both Alabama and Auburn covet are somewhere between slim and none.
Anyway, see you during the Labor Day weekend in Atlanta.
JPW looks to be just the right sort of QB to unveil our revamped DL upon.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
69
Tater Salad says:
As I understand it, a coach can’t pull the scholly. The AD has to. I really don’t think he is just going to yank a scholarship from a kid that is doing everything right and just isn’t cutting it. More likely, he has an idea of a number of kids that aren’t “buying into the system” and will probably be transferring. Just a guess.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
70
Coop says:
68 – File your first sentence under “S” for semantics.
Regardless, what always happens is a coach, definitely like Saban, tells a kid that it is not going to work out for him at Alabama, and he can either ride the pine and play on the scout team until the 4 year obligation is up, or he can quit, transfer, etc.
It happens everywhere, especially at schools with new coaches and/or coaches who have been on campus for a year, long enough to evaluate the current talent.
People hear the above and say, “a scholarship is still a scholarship, so I don’t believe kids would leave,”
but they have no clue how much time and effort are required to play Division I football.
And, these kids aren’t really dying to do mat drills in February at 6AM for the honor of dressing out and sitting on the bench all season.
Saban or whomever does not say, I am yanking your scholarship, at least not directly…
but that is exactly what each coach is telling these kids.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
71
yoyofutbawl says:
Does this mean that Ty Willingham has built a fence around Seattle?
February 14th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
72
Tater Salad says:
Coop,
I’m pretty much agreeing with you on all of that, but IMO there is a difference in an Athletic Director actually pulling a kid’s scholarship to make room for better players and a head coach telling a kid truthfully that he won’t play a snap. Sure, they achieve the same thing most of the time, but in one scenario at least the player still has a choice (though maybe not a very meaningful one).
February 14th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
73
Steve says:
That article from Brian Cook was pure horseshit.
Does the guy check any facts before he flings poo at Saban?
I know it wasn’t mentioned here, but Rivals and Scout only account for the top 20 or 25 players in a class when rating them, meaning you could sign 100 players, and you could only count the top 20 or 25 (I forget which one is for which service.)
And there aren’t any players that are going to pay their own way if they were offered a scholarship. Doesn’t matter anyway, as if they’ve signed a letter of intent, even if they walk on, they count against the 25. Doesn’t matter if they get an academic scholarship or not.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
74
Dash says:
#64 John Parker Wilson’s parents did pay his way the the first semester. He was a gray shirt and joined the team the next Sping.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
75
Picture Me Rollin says:
Last time on this Cheese: A kid can come in with alternative funding but cannot play for a certain period of time, that’s why some of the players mentioned are not having their parents pay (or anybody else for that matter). That was the deal with Cavan,. didn’t play nor count his first two years (I think) If a kid comes in for example on a Bryant Scholarship and plays within the first two seasons they count against the 25. If that were not the case then there would be all types of ways to get talented kids in that were not on scholarship. There would be a lot parents and uncles and aunts paying for their sons and nephews to go to school to play football at higher rates at the better-funded programs. So, I concede that you may partially be right but if they are a serious talent and they come and play they count against the 25 (and 85). I am pretty sure that walk-ons cannot play their first two seasons unless they are transfers (a la Mustin, sat first year (3rd year eligible), walk-on second year (4th yr el.) and scholly 3rd year (5th yr el.) My point is that if you play early, it doesn’t matter where your tuition (and any other benefit) comes from, you count against the scholarship limits. In short, Tyler Love’s nor Barret Jones’ (probably) parents are not paying for him to go to school. Neighbors and Smelley (less likely) are candidates for alternate school funding (Bryant, academic, or parents) and might not count against the max but they will not play.
Oh and Coop, I’ll concede that Alabama probably loses to Clemson in August, I was just poking at you on the Harris thing based on your comments a week before signing day.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
76
CapstoneAlum says:
http://www.rollbamaroll.com/story/2008/2/14/9229/08863#commenttop
TAFKAtOSUB might like the last line of the post.
My only question is why he chose to write this? Cause his boy RR got called a snake oil salesman?
February 14th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
77
Dash says:
I’m sure that Tyler Love will be one of the 25 in the fall because he has a real chance at being the starting RT. I think Smelley and Neighbors will grayshirt and join the team in the Spring and count against ‘09 as they will have no chance at seeing the field early . Barrett Jones can contribute early but I think he’s a grayshirt candidate if they need the space for somone else.
February 14th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
78
bama_buck says:
I did not realize that Big 10 schools cannot oversign.
I stand corrected. Any other BCS confernce have that rule?
Just to clarify, of the 32 that signed, two have backcounted as grey shirts.
Even if a player somehow enrolls on an non-athletic Bryant schlarship, once they are in a position to contribute in any way they must be counted against the 85, if not against the 25 original signees. I’m not sure how that works.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
79
Coop says:
I think today proves what has been fairly obvious to all of us who have read EDSBS regarding TAFKA’s posts and replies…
when a Big 10, or really any other conference other than the SEC but especially the Big 10, fan , preferably from Michigan or Ohio State, attacks someone from the SEC, or the SEC in general, business, and Internet hits, pick up.
How hard is it to deduce that if you write a column like this that you know is guaranteed to incite its readers, that your readers and website hits will increase by a factor of 10 or so.
I get that Mr. M Go Blog is all about making his point and does not care whether anyone reads him or not, but it was not by coincidence that he put this article on that Funhouse page instead of MGoBlog.
He has written several non-Michigan related articles on MGoBlog before, or those as loosely connected to Michigan as this article is.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
80
tbone says:
well, fuck, he obviously wrote it because his boy RR got called a snake oil salesman.
that doesn’t mean Saban isn’t a snake oil salesman as well.
or detract from the apparent fact that a number of other guys appear to be a little loose on the truthiness when it comes to recruiting (phone call for Mr. Meyer?). but, shit, for the most part, that IS recruiting. you either have something really good to sell or you’re blowing smoke up people’s asses.
signing ineligible kids…whatever. greyshirting, EE, to make this year’s #s count against next/last years…whatever. eventually the 25/yr thing gets you. hell, Notre Dame signed like 28 kids a year or two ago, and I would guess they can all spell. the suspect thing, IMO, is when schools bring in 125 eligible kids in a 5 year period, because you know that they are throwing the underperformers under the bus to make room for the next class.
that may be SOP someplaces, but not everybody gets to do that. of course, not everybody gets a free $700k house and $290k worth of cash to play either.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
81
NewAZTiger says:
#19 – the “Auburn” chop block was illegal and the ref just missed it. Typical day in the SEC.
BTW, Alabama chop-blocked Dorsey the next week and didn’t recieve much attention from it.
And if you mention it again, I’m coming over to your house and I’m going to chop block you, your wife, your dog, your college roomate, the mailman, the pool-boy (yes, I’ll do it in the cabana), and your grandmother, because we all know she’s faking injury with that 4 wheeled walker.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
82
justanotherbuckye says:
Steve,
Your argument about only the top 20 or 25 still doesn’t work. All those 2 and 3 star recruits drop off the and make the class seem even better. Now if they only took the bottom 20 or 25 than you’ve got a point.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
83
JTG says:
Ty is under pressure and about to get fired so he gets every recruit in Seattle?
You may label that success, but based on his track record, I label that “still too lazy to get off his ass and recruit more than a two hour drive from his tee time at his country club.”
It’s easier to get everyone in town when you never leave town.
February 14th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
84
tbone says:
#82
actually, the recruiting rating is based off of points (not an average star rating), so if Rivals/Scouts counted all 32 the Alabama class would have a higher total rating.
only counting the top 25 is a reasonable way to compare 25+ person classes. assuming (wrongly), that its going to be the 2 and 3 star recruits who end up ineligible. when it comes to the ineligible, there is a strong good/dumb correlation.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
85
TIGERinATL says:
Here’s a novel idea: Rank the recruiting classes after 4 years of college ball.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
86
bamafanintigerland says:
#85
we do, its called the W-L record.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
87
oc phil says:
#85 But then you can’t project your fantasies and aspirations towards an MNC or two that you are sure to get. Recruiting obsession is all about the FUTURE, not reality.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
88
The Artist Formerly Known as tOSUBuckeyes says:
76
Your boy over at rollbamaroll is an ass clown. He said Bama won’t have many academic non-qualifiers, maybe 3-4. Then entire Big Ten had 4 last year. 1 is too many.
The bottom line is that Alabama is going to take a full 25 guys and cut about 4-6 guys. And Nick Saban will do the same thing next year…he did this at LSU, taking large classes every single year.
Let’s all just be honest and admit that there is a big difference in recruiting practices and roster maintenance between the two conferences. Last year the Big Ten had 4 academic non-qualifiers and the SEC had over 40.
I don’t think Jim Tressel has ever signed more than 22 guys to a single class and he has put twice as many guys in the Pro’s as Nick Saban.
February 14th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
89
NewAZTiger says:
Jim Tressel would choke on Nick Saban’s Cock if they met in a Bowl game.
That’s an Ohio State tradition.
Now look what you’ve made me do – I feel dirty. I’ve got to go and say 25 Auburn Creeds and sing the Fight Song 50 times.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
90
NewAZTiger says:
Oh, yeah, and I’m coming to your house to Chop-Block you and your ass-spleunking Gerbil.
February 14th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
91
bamafanintigerland says:
#88
Going by Rivals. Tressel signed 26 in 2002 (god dammit its suppose to be 25!!!) and 25 in 2004. Now I know no one did not qualify because that never happens in the Big Ten.
Sadly, the non-qualifiers is more about the sad state of schools in the South as well as lack of care/concern on some of the student athletes. At least they got the Big East to fall back onto.
February 15th, 2008 at 12:13 am
92
justanotherbuckye says:
“Sadly, the non-qualifiers is more about the sad state of schools in the South as well as lack of care/concern on some of the student athletes.”
This we can agree on……………..yet, why let it continue into college?
February 15th, 2008 at 7:17 am
93
Pants McPants says:
Wayyyy too late now, but for that TTU fan whining about my calling them out, I apologize. I don’t know why I though TTU oversigned, if it was the 26 they signed last year, or maybe the THIRTY FOUR they signed in 2006. Maybe it was the 26 in 2004. Anyhoo, my bad.
February 15th, 2008 at 9:13 am