24, 12, 32, 40, 8, 8, 2.

I think its very easy to see how the direction of things happened. Weis’ first year after the SB, was the 40th ranked class, Tys Last class. Sorry but if you feel it is a lame excuse, I don’t think it is. That coupled with the fact that Weis hadnt coached at the college level == disaster.

This year it is expected that ND will compete, will get to a bowl game. I expect the year after that they will be, and beat Top10 competition.

I’m deeply skeptical of recruiting class rankings, but I haven’t seen anyone put Willingham’s classes in the 100s.

You argue your facts well and I have no problem with you.

The question is the set of facts (worthiness of recruiting rankings). Also, ND faced (and still faces) for the past five years at least, a particular problem with numbers at DL. Recruiting rankings simply do not, in a given year, reflect positional shortfalls – they only reflect a bulk number of rating stars, and the flashy speed/skill position player or three.

Last year was on Ty and the ND administration at that time. Period. Knute couldn’t have finessed a winning record with the material CW had. Neither could Charlie Mac, Nick, or Les.

A top-12 class (Willingham’s first, which he followed with a fifth-ranked class) isn’t “good?” Um, okay.

“He had one horrible year with a junior and senior class completely bereft of players. Not talent…PLAYERS.”

And just whose fault is that, exactly?

“A single recruiting class can not be considered in a vacuum, if a great class is bracketed by to lousy ones then it will not have a dramatic impact. The key is consistancy pulling quality players top to bottome (look a USC) because we all know that the recruiting class ranking is at best a guess.”

Confronted with hard data, you choose to move the goal posts. Fine. The statement was that Davie’s and Willingham’s recruiting classes were lousy. I posted evidence to the contrary, that in actuality, both coaches had some highly-ranked classes during their stays in South Bend. As a wise man once told me, your mileage may vary.

The jury is most definitely out on CW, but I would expect improvement this year and vast improvement in 2009. If ND is a .500 team for the next two years, you can crucify Charlie all you want. He will have deserved it.

A single recruiting class can not be considered in a vacuum, if a great class is bracketed by to lousy ones then it will not have a dramatic impact. The key is consistancy pulling quality players top to bottome (look a USC) because we all know that the recruiting class ranking is at best a guess.

Not to accuse you of revisionist history or anything, but Davie landed at least three consensus Top 10 classes in his five seasons (’97, ‘98 — the Irish were 3rd, and ‘00).

Willingham’s 2003 class was ranked 5th by Scout (Quinn, Samardjiza, Tommy Z., et al). His first class was ranked 12th, not bad considering he wasn’t hired until after New Year’s Day. The “horrible” 2004 class that has taken on mythic proportions among ND faithful and was blamed for this year’s struggles was ranked 30th — ahead of Auburn, Wisconsin, Missouri and BC… all teams whose senior classes seriously outperformed ND. Illinois, whose 2004 class was inherited by [NAME REDACTED], was nearly 20 slots lower and yet, finished with nine wins and a Rose Bowl berth. Oh, and Savior Weis’ first class was ranked a whopping *three slots* ahead of the 2004 class. But I suppose “more devotion to Bill Belicheck than the school that hired him” jokes aren’t as easy to make as Ty Willingham golfing jokes, right?

My original point stands… the talent’s been there. ND coaches in recent years (including Weis) haven’t done anything with it.

The point is that, unless you live in a bubble, you’ve heard the ND nation rise up as one to lay the blame for last year at Willingham’s feet. It’s just getting a little tired.