HOLD DAT TIGAH
The SEC has a physical advantage over other conferences: proximity to New Orleans. HA! You thought were going to type “speed” there, because we’re total SEC honks, but demography forbids us from thinking that people can be faster than other people simply because of where they were born. (Unless you’re Kenyan.)
The only clear advantage we saw last night in the game lay squarely between the ears of the coaches on the sidelines. LSU put Ohio State in horrible positions all night long: running with power on a defense unaccustomed to yielding hard yards on the ground, hammering them for scores after three turnovers, and forcing the plodding offense to sprint when it really, really would have preferred to stroll. Mythical speed had nothing to do with it: human resources in the coaching sector did, as LSU’s game plan and defensive adjustments put Ohio State in binds all night.
Todd Boeckman also threw two picks, including an undoubtedly lovely series where Boeckman heaved the ball deep for a pick just before taking a streaking blitzer in the spleen. Throw in a roughing the kicker penalty on a punt, and it wasn’t mythical ambient redneck speed spell frying the Buckeyes–it was your perfect formula for football loss for any team, much less one without a defined deep threat in the passing game and really only one weapon on offense.
False grand trends will be traced by those who would care to do it, but Ohio State just happened to be a mismatched, slightly less-well-coached losing team in a national title game…almost as mismatched as Jamarcus Russell’s superstring theory sweater.

Mr. Cosby would like his sweater back, sir.
Les Miles would like some taffy please. NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!









101
Last Dragon says:
#99 – You are so right. He had 3 picks in the first game against MSU when Henig was handing them out like Halloween candy and rode the momentum all year. He’s not even close to the best safety in America.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
102
Chg says:
My general deciding factor for respectability of Big Ten teams is how succesfully they lure top tier talent from the South to their program. Historically, Michigan is the only school that’s done this with consistency, so it isn’t suprising they have a good record against SEC teams in bowl games.
Under Tressel, OSU has begun to venture into the South (the Atlanta area DT they are playing at DE for instance), but the staff is somewhat hamstrung by Buckeye supporters’ blind faith that they play great HS football, therefore they must produce great college level talent. Until he is willing to irk the boosters either by recruiting local guys as backups or abandoning more of them to the Indianas of the world, Ohio State will continue to lose a lot more games than they win against SEC teams of comparable ability.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
103
J-skool says:
Spartanmike —
I wondered the same thing but without any data to support one conclusion or the other, of course.
Then I thought, “Ah yes, he led the SEC in interceptions and plays for MNC contender. Of course!”
An easy vote for the lazy journos. And he’s white. That too.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
104
Mr Pelican Pants says:
Next up on how to defend the SEC: A tight end? they exist? in the SEC? Two touchdowns? Really?
January 8th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
105
Biggus Rickus says:
I too was stunned when I heard Steltz was an All-American. Just goes to show that All-American and other awards are largely meaningless. The Butkus winner playing for the Buckeyes didn’t even look like the best linebacker on his own team.
There are a variety of reasons the SEC tends to field more quality teams than other conferences. It starts with the insane levels of support given to almost every school in the conference. This allows them to lure and keep coaches. There is also the inherent advantage of the recruiting base. Players can practice year round, but more importantly, and I don’t care how this sounds, there are more black people in the south. Black people tend to be better athletes and with football being by far the most popular sport down here, most black athletes play the game. Since most players don’t want to go too far from home, it is a huge advantage.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
106
You Are Tebows' Lunch says:
Someone please tell me the name of the girl in the Busted Tees ad in the right margin.
I’d like to Google image search her with the “Safe Search -OFF”
TYIA
January 8th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
107
TeeBoy says:
the top level website seems to have a problem with FireFox this morning. anybody else see this? Individual posts are OK.
Just sayin…
January 8th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
108
poguemahone says:
I’m not even going to read through the rest of this thread, I’m just going to run down a list of things I’m willing to admit and that all Buckeye fans should be willing to admit.
1. LSU was the better team this year
2. Florida was the better team last year
3. We were probably the fourth or fifth best team in the country this year, behind LSU, USC, and Georgia, embarrassing losses to lesser opponents (Arkansas, Stanford and Tennessee respectively) notwithstanding.
4. Until our own conference starts playing big boy football again, we aren’t going to beat teams that do it on a week-in, week-out basis. See the last two title games.
5. Yes, by and large, the SEC recruits better players than the Big 10. As it stands, every kid that doesn’t go to Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State that plays at another Big Ten school simply were not offered by Ohio State, Michigan, or Penn State. I exaggerate, but that simply isn’t the case in the SEC. Kids WANT to go to Tennessee, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Bama, and all those other schools, not because they weren’t offered by the home state schools, but because those schools have the tradition, facilities, and NFL factory aura that schools like Wisconsin, Iowa, Purdue and Michigan State have never had and, under many of their current coaches and with their athletic departments, never will have.
6. The Big Ten CAN compete with the SEC, as evidenced by the relatively even record in bowls in the past 10 years. But recently, it hasn’t been all that close. There is a disparity, and it’s growing. Back in the late 90’s, Purdue, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State were perennial powers, and, much like the SEC, didn’t have the titles to show for it because they couldn’t make it out of conference play with any less than one loss or so. No, we weren’t half as good as the SEC is now, but we were much more competitive in bowl games when Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Ron Dayne, David Boston, and Lavar Arrington stalked the sidelines of conference teams.
7. I think that when it comes to talent, Ohio State and Michigan are the only Big Ten schools that rival the top teams in the SEC. But talent alone doesn’t get you anywhere: when you play a bunch of nobodies like Indiana, Northwestern and Minnesota, you’re bound to get soft. It would happen to many SEC powerhouses were they to play a Big Ten schedule: they would roll through them only to get outclassed by a tested team in a bowl game. There really isn’t a “speed” difference, as we saw our all-American back explode by LSU’s all American safety, and then saw our freshman all-american defensive end run down Trindon Holliday. It’s a matter of playing tough teams to get you ready for the post season. Ohio State and Michigan don’t do that IN CONFERENCE. Out of conference, we schedule great teams like Oregon this year for Michigan and SC next year Ohio State, but those take place in early September and by the time November rolls around we’ve grown fat off of Iowa and Minnesota and Northwestern. It won’t change until the conference gets better.
Anyway, congrats to LSU. We didn’t look like we belonged on the same field, and maybe we really didn’t.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
109
poguemahone says:
By the way, if it isn’t obvious, I’m not trying to make excuses. I don’t think 50-day layoffs, banquet circuits, etc matter at all. LSU was the better team, the SEC is the better conference by a wide (and widening) margin, end of story.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
110
gindole says:
#107 Bravo.
Your the first OSU fan I’ve ever heard willing to tell those truths without any bullshit excuses tied to them. It’s refreshing and you’re right on a very high percentage of it.
Hats off to you. You raise the quality of your fanbase.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
111
Russ says:
I think the top tier of all the major conferences are generally equal/competitive with each other. Where the SEC distances themselves is in the depth of the conference, especially this year. If the SEC champ can get out of that still ranked high enough in the BCS, they stand a very good chance in the title game given the wars they’ve already been through. And that 40-50 day layoff that seems to hurt other teams only serves to let the SEC champ get healthy.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
112
Because They Can says:
Count me in on the Craig Steltz bashing. The LSU secondary got better when he left with an injury. All-America recognition is like the Heisman Trophy and the polls- a hype contest.
January 8th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
113
poguemahone says:
One more thing, Buckeye / Big Ten fans: you can’t fault the media for disrespecting us now. This isn’t just “one bad game” anymore. It’s two straight title losses, it’s Appalachian State, it’s Minny losing to North Dakota State, it’s Northwestern losing to Duke….
If we want respect, we’ll have to earn it. And we’ll have to do that by beating someone of note, SEC team or not. Until then, we’re below the SEC, the Pac 10, the Big 12, and maybe even the ACC in terms of competitiveness and depth.
January 8th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
114
Techie says:
I think the notion of a Buckeye whining about the level of “institutional support” compared to the SEC schools is laughable. I’ve seen the SI spreads on your facilities.
January 8th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
115
poguemahone says:
I never said Ohio State’s facilities were lacking. Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State all have great facilities and either are or will be building newer, more modern ones soon.
But Northwestern, Iowa, M-State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Illinois? Beautiful campuses in the fall. Bad facilities pretty much all around. Some of the worst facilities of all the BCS conferences reside in the Big 10. But it isn’t just “institutional support” that’s lacking. It’s prior program prestige, it’s coaching, and something we can’t change: location. Most top-flight recruits wouldn’t trade beaches, southern summers and southern belles for the dirt, snow and tornadoes we have up north. Just a fact of life.
January 8th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
116
Touchdown74 says:
Corndogs for everyone!!!
January 8th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
117
beckett929 says:
in the midts of this ridiculous conference piss contest…. everyone at Wf’nV would like to thank Auburn and Colorado for not being like the Big 10 and ACC and doing everything possible to get out of games with us.
January 8th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
118
Mr Pelican Pants says:
#107
Pogue, your my new favorite Big 10 Homer……reasonable and introspective….Hey its not the Big 10 we dislike…..its the way many tOSU fans think that they actually belong after playing a lite schedule in the Big 10, no matter if they lose…..twice….., the conference has talent….man watching the talent that Michigan had dismantle Florida’s secondary, and their line play, made me realize that, maybe with a different coach, Michigan SHOULD have had a lot better year…..Alot is to be said about Senior leadership, 4 yr starters and experience….all weighed in LSU’s favor….
tOSU is young, Beanie Wells is gonna be a future Top 5 draft pick, maybe a Heisman candidate starting next year with a good game vs USC… The biggest gripe is all the tough games the SEC plays every week, PLUS having to play either one of the same teams or a better team in the SEC Championship game….which the Big 10 doesnt have to go thru…I would like to see a Big 10 where Penn State is a top 10 team, Michigan is a top 5 team, Illinois is a top 10, that would help the Big 10 argument about schedule strength, hopefully by 2010 the BCS will have more exciting games like Texas vs USC……..These past 2 MNC games looked like a 6A high school football team having to play 4A class team for the championship…..usually the 6A team has better players and has played on a totally different level its whole season while the smaller school hasnt faced that type of competition, and hasnt even had to come from behind in the last few minutes to win a game, even though it may have 1 or 2 playmakers , the 6A team always has about 10 playmakers….I say recruiting athletes is the main difference, and in a 5 star recruits mind, is “what coach or program can I win a MNC or go to the NFL from?” If ya look at the SEC, its loaded with coaches that have won MNC’s…..and they just added 2 more the past 2 years at tOSU’s expense…Thats why 5 stars flock to the warmer weather…..good coaches, insane college atmosphere….warmer weather= less coed clothing by default…….
January 8th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
119
Crabapple Buck says:
I see upon my return from NOLA, that we have gone straight to “bash tOSU season”. I hope the Fulmer Cup gets its just due in the next few months as everyone punishes the Buckeyes for the next year. Although I’m disappointed, my wife reminded me that this was a rebuilding year. Two plays turned that game around and changed the way things played out. We were beaten, but dominated? Not in my mind.
January 8th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
120
Mr Pelican Pants says:
Now it begs to question:
If you put together a tOSU all star team with some of last years players mixed with this years players……would tOSU win either game?
January 8th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
121
You Are Tebows' Lunch says:
Ok now I’m begging…please someone get the girls name in the Busted Tees ad in the right margin so I can think of her when I’m running a batch on my wife’s cans tonite.
Oh and tOSU SUX
Thank you.
January 8th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
122
Mr Pelican Pants says:
Dominated? Maybe not……Manhandled? Yeh, thats about it……when your Linebackers are making everyplay on defense, the D-line is getting handled…
and the yards? LSU didnt have to go very far thanks to penalties tacked on after nearly every long gain….
Rebuilding year? Try the last two years….hope you get that team rebuilt before playing USCw….they are supposedly better than LSU
January 8th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
123
NewAZTiger says:
#110, I think the top tier of the SEC has proven that it’s better than the other conferences.
January 8th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
124
poguemahone says:
For me, the annoying thing about my fellow Ohio State fans in the past year is our inability to give the teams that beat us credit. I couldn’t believe the amount of excuses Buckeye fans seemingly had stockpiled for the loss to Florida. “Banquet circuit, layoff, that wasn’t the same Ohio State team, Troy Smith was fat…” They (I guess we, but I never used these excuses) had a billion “reasons” as to why we were totally outclassed, and none of the ones listed mentioned Florida simply being the better team from the better conference.
Personally, though, I do think we “belong” at least in the title discussion if we go undefeated with a quality win against a BCS opponent, say, USCw next year. Believe it or not, we are still a BCS conference. We just need to start playing like one.
That being said, I can understand the frustration of SEC fans. Our only challenges all year are Penn State, Michigan, and occasionally Wisconsin. You guys are pretty much playing Michigan (with better coaching) every week. Add on top of that that you just had an undefeated conference champ robbed of a BCS title bid just a few years ago, and I can definitely see where you’re coming from.
January 8th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
125
Mr Pelican Pants says:
tOSU: You LSU guys are crazy….(punches LSU in the mouth, goes up 10-0 pretty quick…….LSU, touches their bloody lips and puts the blood on their tongue…)
LSU:That’s what l’m talking about!!!
Come on, sucker. Let’s get it on.
tOSU: You want to fight?
LSU:Come on. l’m going to beat the shit
out of your ass, m*&^&er!!.
tOSU:(LSU goes down the field, kicks a field goal)
You punch people in the eyes? Bitch.
Is that all you got?
LSU: You think that’s all?
l’m going to blast your teeth out.(Scores on next possesion)
Say goodnight to this bitch now..You’re going to have to learn
to respect me.
(Tosses to the tight end for TD)
And the next time…you accuse me of stealing,
l’ll kick your ass again.
(Throws another TD to tight end)
tOSU:You crazy bitch.(Pick 6 INT for TD)
LSU:Oh, you want to hit people
with garbage cans?
Now l’ve got to cut you.(Blocks field goal, changes momentum for the game)
tOSU: Put that razor away.
Put it away, or l’ll blow
your pinkie toe off.
January 8th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
126
TrevJo says:
Congrats to LSU. One advantage they had over OSU was experience. By my count:
LSU started 4 sophomores, 7 juniors, 11 seniors
OSU started 1 freshman, 8 sophomores, 11 juniors, 2 seniors
In 2006, Florida started 1 freshman, 3 sophomores, 8 juniors, 10 seniors
It’s mind-boggling that these young Buckeyes rolled through the Big Ten with one loss, giving up only 10 points per game. Maybe next year will be the year they have enough experience AND talent to seriously compete for a national title.
By the way:
2007 Gators: 4 freshmen, 7 sophomores, 6 juniors, 5 seniors
Way too young. What worries me though is that the team will only get a little older next year:
2008 Gators (projected): 1 freshman, 7 sophomores, 10 juniors, 4 seniors.
They should have 16 returning starters though, whereas they only had 8 returning starters in 2007.
January 8th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
127
bnb614 says:
PohueMahone, quit asskissing the SECers. Every team’s fan use excuses to justify losses. Not saying it is right but it happens. Look at Arkansas last year in bowl game (basically dominated the game) vs Wisconsin etc.
LSU beat OSU soundly. Florida did so last year. There are some play here and there that are up for discussion on how it affected the game but doesn’t mean it affected outcome of the games. LSU won yesterday, congrats to them.
That being said the following teams didn’t win yesterday:
Auburn, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina, Miss St., Ole Miss, Tennessee, or Arkansas.
Here is OSU’s complete history vs. current SEC teams for anyone wondering how the 0-9 in bowl games comes out:
1895 beat Kentucky 8-6
1908 beat Vanderbilt 17-6
1909 beat Vanderbilt 5-0
1919 beat Kentucky 49-0
1931 lost to Vanderbilt 26-21
1933 beat Vanderbilt 20-0
1935 beat Kentucky 19-6
1978 Sugar Bowl lost to Alabama 35-6
1987 tied LSU 13-13
1988 beat LSU 36-33
1990 Hall of Fame Bowl lost to Auburn 31-14
1993 Citrus Bowl lost to Georgia 21-14
1995 Citrus Bowl lost to Alabama 24-17
1996 Citrus Bowl lost to Tennessee 20-14
2001 Outback Bowl lost to South Carolina 24-7
2002 Outback Bowl lost to South Carolina 31-28
2007 National Title Game lost to Florida 41-14
2008 National Title Game lost to LSU 38-24
January 8th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
128
TrevJo says:
Here’s some more fun Bowl History.
SEC in BCS Bowl Games since the 2001 season:
2002 Sugar – W – #13 LSU 47, #8 Illinois 34
2002 Orange – W – #5 Florida 56, #10 Maryland 23
2003 Sugar – W – #3 Georgia 26, #14 Florida State 13
2004 Sugar – W – #2 LSU 21, #1 Oklahoma 14
2005 Sugar – W – #3 Auburn 16, #8 Virginia Tech 13
2006 Sugar – L – 11 West Virginia 38, Georgia 35
2007 Sugar – W – #4 LSU 41, #11 Notre Dame 14
2007 Champ – W – #2 Florida 41, #1 Ohio State 14
2008 Sugar – W – #5 Georgia 41, #10 Hawaii 10
2008 Champ – W – #2 LSU 38, #1 Ohio State 24
January 8th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
129
Biggus Rickus says:
bnb614,
So are you trying to prove some kind of point with your listing of the games? OSU has beaten exactly one SEC team since 19-fucking-35. And that came against a Mike Archer coached team in a fairly down era for the SEC – post Bear and pre Spurrier.
January 8th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
130
poguemahone says:
Asskissing? Really? That’s what I did?
Yeah, I’ve heard that we’re 7-2-2 against the SEC in the regular season. Six of those wins came against Vandy and Kentucky, not exactly powerhouses. The only win against anyone else was a miracle comeback against LSU at home in ‘88. But I won’t try to take anything away from that one win.
All I’m saying is the SEC is better than our conference, and we have a lot of catching up to do. What exactly do you disagree with?
January 8th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
131
bnb614 says:
Biggus, I was posting the dates of games since everyone throws out the 0-9. Those are the 9 bowl games and regular season games.
Funny though how you look at the data and the first thing you do is come up with an excuse for the loss.
January 8th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
132
bnb614 says:
Also since TrevJo only posted the BCS games, from the bowl games aftr the 2000 season to present in ALL bowl games, the SEC is 36-25
January 8th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
133
Biggus Rickus says:
bnb,
I wasn’t excusing the loss. I suspect the Big 10 was a better conference in the late eighties than the SEC was. Of course, that basically marks the last time that was the case. Throughout the ’90s the leagues were roughly equal. As the 2000s have progressed the SEC has surpassed the Big 10 and while the speed argument is overplayed in the case of Ohio State and Michigan and possibly Penn State, there is a general level of athleticism in the SEC that the Big 10 can’t match.
January 8th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
134
JayTiger says:
Hmm.. the first thing I come up with from that list is not only are the bucknuts 0-9 versus the SEC in bowls but they’ve lost to SEVEN different SEC teams in those matchups. That’s some impressively thorough suckitude. The good news is since you lost to Vandy way back when they were good, you only have four more SEC teams left to lose to for the sweep.
January 8th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
135
Yinka Double Dare says:
Biggus — it’s especially overplayed in regards to Michigan, considering Michigan is 5-1 in bowls vs. the SEC in the last 10 years when the SEC was supposed to be so strong. .
Boy, do I wish Michigan would schedule a regular season home-and-home with a decent SEC team though. Would especially love Tennessee — two of the biggest stadiums in the nation, and one of the closer SEC schools for Michigan fans in the Midwest to drive down to for the game That’d be a ton of fun. Instead we’re stuck with The White Whale of South Bend.
January 8th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
136
Gurn says:
beckett929 –
Too bad Pittsburgh didn’t try to get out of its game with WVU.
January 8th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
137
Mr Pelican Pants says:
SEC=Better Coaches, bar none….better coaches=better staffs and asst coaches=better recruiters and evaluators of talent……
better recruiters=better teams
better teams=MNC for the teams in that Conference….
This is the new SEC……now the miracle is putting a staff together for 4 solid years without losing key staff members to other Head Coaching jobs…
January 8th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
138
Michigan Dave says:
Major corporations outsource work all the time. It’s high time for OSU to outsource bowl games against SEC opponents to Michigan.
January 8th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
139
bnb614 says:
Major corporations outsource work all the time. It’s high time for OSU to outsource bowl games against SEC opponents to Michigan.
And OSU can reciprocate for the entire regular season.
January 8th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
140
PTTO says:
this write up of the title game is by far the most intelligent one Ive read. Boeckman really blew his teams chances, and Tressel, of all coaches, could not make adjustments to keep up with the LSU defense.
January 9th, 2008 at 2:22 am
141
Out of Conference says:
Mr. PP – I see you have not received your due credit for the great Harlem Nights reference. Nicely played, sir!
January 10th, 2008 at 10:00 am