USC CONTINUES BORING, HUMDRUM PERFECTION.

after all….usc is #1 in america. i know this b/c lsu taught me in 2003 that the coaches poll is the one that matters and the ap poll is to be ignored.

USC sits quietly only until the end of this month, after which they play Oregon, Cal, and ASU. All three of those should be big games.

Pete Carroll uses very effective shampoo. Aren’t you jealous of the bounce and volume of his wonderful coif?

USC will send a quaint middle finger to LSU and Harbaugh this weekend. I’m thinking, 42-0 early in the second quarter before the backups come in. The final will be like 59-10 and it’ll get lost in the big days of game. But Carroll will be doing the Monty Burns “excellent” thing because his team can dole out punishment on command.

The absolute LAST thing Cal wants is an LSU loss. Can you imagine Cal/USC in a #1 vs. #2 game? Pete Carroll would have USC so jakked, their players would combust following each of their 9 touchdowns.

“quaint middle finger to LSU "

By beating Stanford? Yeah, that will really enrage the Werewolf…

Besides, everyone knows with the way this season has gone that Florida is winning this weekend.

Cal fan here, wanting an LSU loss. USC will be just as jacked for 1 vs 2 as for 1 vs 3. My Bears are just going to have to deal with it. Win or lose, I think they will.

As for the original story…..NOT ONLY THAT, the offensive line is “makeshift” as well.

Crap-Cake Dept:

Seeing USC try to give the game away last week with all sorts of penalties and turnovers was not boring, but irritating to no end. At one point Carroll looked like someone gave him a wedgie.

It is nice to see USC play a gimme this Saturday. Besides the injuries already noted, USC is replacing two offensive linemen that went ‘down-like-Frazier’ in ONE freaky play last weekend in the moldy northwest. Heavy hitter Wright is also out, not to mention Cushing, and others.

At least Stanford’s band, if it still exists, will provide some sort of performance that will be far more memorable than its sorry team and its sorry excuse of a coach.

I think USC is very good, they recruit unbelievable talent, but I think this squad is a couple of ticks below what we’ve come to expect from the Trojans under Pete Carroll. Not a big believer in JD Booty, and I think the departure of Jarrett and Smith was a huge loss that was dismissed by people. Lot of injuries now, too.

I think that second half road gauntlet of Cal, Oregon and Arizona State might prove to be their undoing. If they get do get through this season undefeated, I think it would prove to be Carroll’s best coaching job yet

I know I will be corrected post haste if I am wrong, but didn’t USC lose two games to unranked teams in 2006.

And this year, hasn’t USC only played one team with a winning record in 2006, and will not play another until October 20th when they must take on…. Notre Dame.

Please do not assume that I am implying that USC is not good. But by what objective criteria is USC an unquestionable number 1?

Where’s the quote that the Great Humanitarian said if they played like they did against U-Dub against real opponents, the might start losing like “normal teams”?

Also, we need more Booty for Booty Heisman campaign pictures, please. SKLM – you got the hookup, don’t you?

Unhappy Monkey: Thanks for offering up raw meat to USC fans. But, I will pass. Have a good day….

Out of Conference: The best USC-Hesiman comment I have heard this year is that the Heisman should go to the USC offensive line-as a unit. (First time it would go to more than one player. Farfetched? Yeah, but so was Appy State beating Mich., Gundy going nutso on a young woman writer and Saban talking about ’Bama academics this year.)

SKLM, I thought y’all were all vegetarians out there.

I’m not trying to run USC down; hell they may prove to be unstoppable after all is said and done, but they have not been tested yet, so there is little objective evidence at this point justifying USC as unquestionable number 1.

USC will get it’s chance but right now, what have they actually done this year that no other team has done?

How the search coming for a new, official, EDSBS handicapper?

Stacy Keibler, where is your evidence that LSU is not far and away better than USC?

Unless my math is shaky, LSU has a combined score of 195 to 32 against its first five opponents, who coincidentally have a combined record of 13-11 with two ranked opponents.

Let’s contrast. USC has won its first four games by a combined score of 161 to 79. It may be unfair to compare since USC has played one fewer game, but it’s clear that USC’s defense is a gaping hole compared to LSU’s by that comparison, even if the offenses are comparable. But let’s look at record, combined record of 11-11 for those USC plays.

LSU plays, typically, a slightly superior opponent to the point that it’s probably a statistical aberration at this point, but they dominate then in an almost horrifying fashion. Granted, the Nebraska game wasn’t as close as it looks, but LSU didn’t give up a meaningful touchdown until halfway through the fourth game of the season.

Is USC really good? Yes. Will they probably play in the national championship? With the kittening of the rest of the field, probably. But if we learned anything about SEC football last year, it’s that showboaty offenses with untested defenses invariably get demolished by the class of the SEC.

As I recall, USC was also proclaimed by ESPN to be the best team ever the year they lost to Texas. Let that commentary on their strength of schedule sink in a bit. I’d be a HELL of a lot more terrified of an undefeated LSU at the end of this year than an undefeated USC.

#15
Look at the offensive rankings of those teams that LSU has beaten – 4 of the 5 of them are ranked 100 or higher. LSU has not faced an offense yet, seriously.

GT steve,

I would be terrified of both teams if undeafeted at the end of the season. While I agree LSU looks better thus far, CAL, Oregon, ASU et al can not be lightly dismissed.

tzubear, what about the other 9 teams, can they be lightly dismissed?

tOSU, USC has faced the 77, 79, 83 & 103 defenses.

Has USC faced a defense yet?

unhappy Monkey,

No, hence the et al. Ok so maybe 2-3 can. Same can be said of 2-3 SEC members too.

Good question whether Sc has faced a defense yet, though. This is a question that has not been answered for either LSU or USC to my satisfaction.

Wow. USC has four injured tailbacks, and the Trojans probably won’t miss a beat on the ground. Conversely…well, I’m not sure UNC even HAS four tailbacks.

LSU has faced the following defenses:

MSU 38; Vtech 28; MTSU 87; USCe 26; Tulane 87.

But my question is not whether LSU is better or should be ranked higher than USC. It is, what has USC done this year to prompt many professional and non-professional pundits to proclaim that there is no argument that USC is not number 1?

USC is Better Than LSU Dept:

No. 15 – G T Steve: I’ll play. Judging the teams by total score is a bit shaky. USC goes to its reserves quickly and sort of practices at the end of games, the last game being an aberration. LSU looked weak for two complete halves this year against the ‘powderhouses’ of Miss State and Tulane. (Feel free to steal this new football term that I just made up.) USC won two games in tough areas – loud Neb and moldy WA. LSU has been mack-ing it up at home, mostly.

Bringing up Texas is a low blow. It is like a woman bringing up ex-girlfriends. Ouch!

Now you let this sink in, my ‘McLovin’ sounding commentator:

USC has smacked all SEC teams it has played by huge scores in recent memory. Wish USC and LSU would meet to prove who is better. But, your team will not even beat Florida this next Saturday.

It’s the continuing after-effect of Matt Leinart’s beauty. It’ll wear off in another three seasons or so.

GTSteve:

Pete Carroll always plays a plain vanilla defense on the first series and most teams know this — and exploit it for an early TD. SC then clamps down and give up a field goal in 2-1/2 quarters while building a 47-10 lead. Petey then empties the bench and reverts to a prevent defense which allows the other team to score a few “feel good” touchdowns (just ask Nebraska)…..if they are good enough. SC’s offense had the worst night for a USC offense in about 5 years versus UW and this was an aberration (UW had two drives starting inside the SC 20 following turnovers and a pick six for their other TD).

My point is that USC’s defensive scheme and pulling of starters leads to late “mercy touchdowns” as Petey is not concerned with style points like some other teams out there. I’m hoping LSU and SC make it to the NC game as I think it would be one hell of a matchup. Fight On!

So, what objective criteria matter?

Final score? No, USC gives up a free touchdown to start and some at the end when their backups are in. You know, other teams put their scrubs in too at the end.

Stats? No, same rationale.

Wins against ranked compettion? No, USC has none yet this year.

Wins/loses? No, USC has only 4 wins this year and gave up 2 to unranked teams last year. (Maybe Pete should not have used the vanilla defense to start those games)

Past years interconference dominance? No, LSU has not lost to a pac10 team since USC in 1979.

Seriously, you cite no object criteria to date. The Humanitarian @ 25 actually has the closest to correct answer. USC is USC.

SKLM,

I can play this game as well.

USC has played the following SEC teams since its string of national championships, near national championships, and otherwise alarmingly good play (we’ll call it 2002):
Auburn 24-17
Auburn 23-0
Arkansas 70-17 (the year they were proclaimed the best team ever)
Arkansas 50-14
That is all.

To contrast, LSU has played:
Oregon State 22-21
@ Arizona State 35-31
That’s it.

This isn’t a large sample set, and in three cases USC beat an unranked team, and the other case Auburn fell off later with GaTech iirc.

There is very little interplay between the Pac-10 and SEC, so that’s not really a valid point of comparison.

Also, you claim putting in the back-ups deflates USC’s scores. I can play that game:

LSU has six backs with over a hundred yards rushing. The lowest average amongst them is 5.2 per carry. To contrast, USC only has three backs at the same level, and their averages are slightly higher. Of course, neither team has played a real defense (with the exceptions of Nebraska and VaTech), so it is hard to tell. I guess we’ll know after this weekend. Although I think it’s fair to say that if LSU rolls over Florida, LSU is the most dominant team in the country.

GTSteve – how did one game tell us anything “invariable”?

LSU also played Arizona in 06 (45-3) and 03 (59-13).

Unhappy Monkey,

I find nothing wrong with your analysis. I do think ’SC will be significantly better by the end of the year, but the coaching staff needs to come to terms with the fact that the personnel is more geared towards ball control offense as opposed to the run and gun of the last few years.

GT Steve,

Slate had a great article a couple years ago on what kind of teams are overrated: Ones with top flight stars at the skill positions. Still, ’SC was only 4 points away from the greatest or second greatest three year run in cfb history. Nothing to sneeze at.

My god, did TOSUetc. make it through a whole post without obsessing about Alabama, Nick Saban, the fan base, etc.?

Baby steps……………..

#16

My god, did TOSUetc. make it through a whole post without obsessing about Alabama, Nick Saban, the fan base, etc.?

Baby steps……………..

How come when USC squeaks out a win in the cold and rain of Washington, it’s proof that their overrated, but when an SEC team like Florida barely beats 1-4 Ole Miss it’s written off as just another “tough SEC road game”?

#34

It’s like this… most of us in the SEC acknowledge the fact that the PAC 10 is playing good football these days. However, we still snicker at you (yes, even you SC) when it comes to the total package. You see, the difference between our conferences cannot be measured in one season’s record or recruiting rankings. The difference is cultural. Speaking in generalities of course, our athletes are faster, our stadiums are bigger and more consistantly packed, our fans our louder and more passionate. Overall, college football means more to us than it does to you, so we spend and expect more.

uh, USC ain’t that great. geez.

that oregon game is gonna be hell on their defense

Even as a Cal fan, I acknowledge on a broad scale our students/alumni are not as passionate as yours—college football isn’t a lifestyle for most of us.

As a Cal diehard though, I’ll go toe-to-toe with your SEC diehards any day. There just happen to be many, many more of you.

1. The correct answer to “what objective criteria matter at this point in the season” is ….NONE.

USC is number #1 because the polls say they are.

I think the best part of this whole debate is that it includes to fan bases that despite no real connection to each other have devoloped a passionate hatred of one another.

This USC team is OK — but it has its problems.

JD Booty — Mediocre at best, does not spot open recievers, kind of a chuckle head.

Recievers — Mediocre — Fred Davis the TE is the best

but the defense is solid, and the Running backs are much better than last year.

last years team was not very good, no reliable running game, and while the recievers were better it was still booty getting them the ball.

I have no doubt that people in the south love their football, and that they field fast teams to full stadiums. USC for the last 5 or 6 years has fielded a team that is the match in the speed department of any team in the nation, to say otherwise is foolish.

oc phil, try not to mis-quote, it is worse than subjective opinions stated as fact. Otherwise you are correct, USC is number 1 b/c people say so, rational reasoning based on objective, quantifiable and tested criteria be damned.

#35
Spend more? Like on your recruits?

“try not to mis-quote, it is worse than subjective opinions stated as fact”

Is that an opinion or a fact?

The most amazing thing about the Pete Carroll U$C experience is how he’s managed to keep everyone out of jail and NCAA-eligible. They’ve always had the horses, getting them on the field has been the tough part (see, for example Meyer, Urban and Brown, Mack).

The rest of us keep waiting (and hoping) for him to show up on the front page of the LA Times with three kilos of coke and a half-dozen dead teenage hookers.

Until then, unfortunately, we’re all fucked.

oc phil, it’s a fact you mis-quoted. It’s my opinion that mis-quoting is worse than subjective opinions stated as fact.

1. - Interesting thoughts…

Lots of other good comments here as well.

Obviously as you mentioned SC has played one less game than LSU so the point totals are worthless. But seeing you brought it up some of those points were scored against SC in garbage time with the third stringers in there like against Idaho and Nebraska.

The tiresome arguments of scheduling are pointless but once again seeing you brought it up… looking at LSU’s schedule it appears once again that LSU has the luxury of having its tougher games at home this year but those southern juggernauts of Middle Tennessee, Tulane and Louisiana Tech obviously improve LSU’s strength of schedule. Hell Tulane is pretty much of a home game as that is really no different than going to a friend’s house for a sleepover. And comment #16 hits the nail on the head in regards to just how tough your competition is. I would also agree with #19 about the defenses that SC has faced.

The fact is there are the great teams and there are the bad teams and not much else in between.

SC has the luxury of putting its reserves in early and seeing how the reserves react to real game situation, they usually stay in the game. LSU has done it as well but what stands out is their possible nervousness of staying with their base offense by putting their explosive reserves in during the second quarter (Holliday and Perilloux) of the Carolina game. Maybe their base offense can’t sustain itself so they were quick to bring in the game-changers and post a lead before going back to the base offense, which speaks volumes to me that they cannot always go out and execute what they want whenever they want like the great teams tend to do. I mean the score was only 28-16 and it was clear that LSU was having their way with the Gamecock defense yet they couldn’t run up the score.

Every team has its tough games, so while SC beat Washington by a mere 3 points the numbers don’t lie, SC dominated UW even with all the mistakes. This SC team has a glimmer of the old championship teams, and they don’t even know how good they are/can/will be yet. They kind of have that naive 2002 feel before the 8-game winning streak when it was clear USC had a good team but just how good could they be? But also a bit of that 2004 team where you knew things would be sluggish early but if they got it together they’d be gold in a title match-up with the right opponents. Now, I don’t know if this team will put it together like that – the schedule’s ridiculously backloaded – but they have a glimmer of it.

They may not look pretty in some of these games but they are getting it done. As for the polls, who cares…win and you’re in if you don’t it doesn’t really matter.

Paragon SC, I agree with your comments re USC. You obviously are more familiar with them than I.

Your comments re LSU base offense are well taken, I am also concerned about those issues. But you should consider that LSU’s base defense does not have the same problems, whereas USC’s base defense, arguably does. This is consistant with the two teams identities, LSU defense, USC offense and the emphasis of those aspects of the game in the respective conferences.

Re scheduling, LSU gets a break this year with the tougher games being at home, but you are incorrect that this is “once again” the case. LSU played #1 Florida, #5(?) Auburn, Tennessee and Arkansas on the road last year. Also we have KY away this year (we will see how this turns out ranking wise.)

Also, I think USCe correllates well with your explaination of USCw v. UW; LSU dominated that game and did not play its best. Yet LSU won by 12 and USCe was/is ranked.

Hope we both keep winning and meet in January. However, tell Auburn that the polls do not matter right now and all you have to do is keep winning.

#35

I’ve done my best to stay out of this one, but your assertion that “your” (meaning SEC, I assume) athletes are faster is laughable. The Pac-10 is equally as fast, if not faster than the SEC.

Does the South care more about football? Absolutely. But the on the field product is much closer this year between the Pac 10 and SEC than in most years.

Unhappy Monkey said “However, tell Auburn that the polls do not matter right now and all you have to do is keep whinning”

Now THAT’s a misquote.

Actually If you didn’t spend your time cherry picking stats to fight straw man arguements (since nobody around here has said that USC has proven themselves as a clear #1 so far this season) you might be able to become “Happy Monkey”.

BTW for such a stickler you should do some fact checking. You were wrong in two different posts about rankings. Nebraska is ranked this year, both when USC played them and now and Oregon State finished the season as a ranked team (which obviously means more than the ranking or lack thereof at the time the teams played (Though domers who brag about beating #2 Michigan a couple of years ago would disagree)).

Those head to head hits mustve taken a toll on his brain already because he got a 660 on the SAT (on the 1600 scale) on his first take. Now I’m not saying the SAT is a great intelligence but when you get 660 on it, when they spot you 400 points, you aint the brightest bulb

Er, great intelligence TEST i meant to say

And because I’m stupid the above comments aren’t for this thread…d’oh

Please allow another Trojan fan to continue stirring the pot. The conventional wisdom in some quarters has it that LSU’s win over Virginia Tech is a more impressive win than USC’s best win thusfar, the Nebraska one, so that gives LSU the edge.

Why is that? I guess because VaTech was ranked in the Top 10, pre-season? It sure as h*ll can’t be based on VaTech’s performance this year (barely beating East Carolina at home, beating Ohio, then Bill and Mary, then ekeing out a 17-10 over North Carolina last weekend).

Why does/did USC deserve to be #1? Personally, I don’t think rankings should even start until early October, but I’m not sure what “objective reasons” there are at this point in the season for ANY team to be listed as #1. A lot of football is yet to be played, and it’s just now getting interesting.

Agreed. Rankings are useless until at least early November, especially with all the parity this year. They’re just fluff for us to talk about and get angry over until that point.

I watched the ND/USC game of two years ago with a sophomore that had never seen USC lose. She declared that if they lost she would stop rooting for them and give up on college football. I declared that if I saw her enjoy the win I would always root against USC till the end of time, or at least the end of their bowl streak. One of us continues their vow.

It’s never wrong to be happy when people who have had too much happiness crash and burn.

I see this argument a lot and I would appreciate an honest answer from a USC fan.

 Every time the question of points allowed is brought up a USC fan almost always counts with ‘Pete likes to play his second stringers when he has a lead’. 1) Do you honestly believe that other schools leave their starters in for 4 quarters with a lead? 2) Do you think this is a brand spanking new concept in the world of college football pioneered by Grand Master Carroll?

How come when USC squeaks out a win in the cold and rain of Washington, it’s proof that their overrated, but when an SEC team like Florida barely beats 1-4 Ole Miss it’s written off as just another "tough SEC road game"?

Oh, please. In 2004, every close game for USC or OU showed “their heart of a champion”, while every close game for Auburn showed weaknesses, wasn’t impressive enough, etc.

As much as I hate USC (as a Michigan fan), I want them to roll up 70 on Harbaugh’s classy, well-educated, science-major team. Here’s your diploma, bitch. Should wipe some of the presumption off.

Stoops will keep his starters in for the whole game (or at least 85% of it)— see Tulsa

Actually, with Kris O’Dowd and others out, Stanford will not face the USC line that Nebraska faced. That weakness won’t prevent the Dommes from beating Stanford handily. But it does mean that Notre Dame’s margin of victory over SoCal will be 21 or 28, rather than the expected 10-17.

1. I honestly believe that Pete Carroll and the staff are not into big blowout scores. When a team rips off 57 wins out of 60 games you don’t need big margins to pump up the team or fans. So yes I do think that USC is quicker to rotate players in and qucker to go vanilla on the play calling than many schools are.

USC did score 70 on Arkansas but that was a total train wreck for the Hogs. The 3rd string QB was still marching the team down the field that night.

1. There is a class system in CFB. Teams that have won more often get the benefit of the doubt over teams that have won less in the past. Win as much as USC or OU and you will get the benefits too.

1. Wow, isn’t it a bit early in the day to be hitting the crack pipe that hard?

Any team that can suffer the injuries USC did in that game (and remember came in to Seattle with a ton of injuries already), in a Conference game, on the road, in a Hostile environment (did you notice the camera shaking the whole game), in the rain, survive 16 penalties for 160 yrds (including 4 PF’s – 3 of which were BS Calls and a PI call on a pass the was 15 ft over the receivers head – The PAC-1O STILL HAS THE WORST OFFICALS IN THE COUNTRY), 3 turnovers, and still find a way to win; is a championship caliber team. Champions find a way to win the close ones, including games they don’t play well in. And the COACHES AGREE. 44 1st place votes to just 14 for LSU.

Mark #61 -

Conversely: any team that racks up that many penalties (of which, maybe one was BS), turns the ball over that many times, and gets thrown off its game by some drizzle and a middle-of-the-Pac’s non-sellout crowd is NOT a championship caliber team.

Lost in the discussion of USC-UW is that the Huskies played JUST AS POORLY AS USC DID. The only reason USC was able to kick their game-sealing FG was a muffed punt and a sure-thing interception dropped by the Huskies.

Narrowly beating a mid-level opponent on the road that’s playing flawless, motivated football can be impressive. Doing so despite getting rattled by weather or loud opposing fans is a bonus. But squeaking by a mid-level conference opponent that played badly, and whose QB played like crap over and above his true frosh status, is not impressive.

I had this discussion in full with CFR: http://www.collegefootballresource.com/blog/2007/10/1/this-weeks-rankings-whod-a-thunk.html#comments

Calfan,

So when your Bears lose to USC again, does that make the loss all the more ignominious because the Trojans aren’t a “championship caliber team”? Just checking.