THE MINNESOTA FOOTBALL THING=WAY F'D UP

Wow – just wow.

Raging hormones * (Stupidity +Alcohol)^Camera Phone = this mess.

Un-be-f’ing-lievable.

Also – All the ads right now are Alabama-centric:

Crimson Tide Ringtones
Alabama Debt Relief – ChristianDebtRelief.com
Crimson Tide Tickets
Online Degree in Alabama (If it’s online, why is it only in Alabama??!!!?!?!)

Makes you wonder what the fine folks of ’Bama are googling these days.

’She’s just a slut. Don’t forget the Duke rape case.’

I’ve already read the above about nine times last night and this morning. Sickening.

Apparently all rape cases are fabricated. One more reason to hate Lacrosse.

here’s to hoping that camera phone recording will seal the deal for the prosecution

Yikes. Seriously, don’t click on the link if you’re about to go to lunch, like I just did. Coincidentally, that lunch is Thai. Maybe that will help.

I second swampchomp’s hope for a conviction, based on this report.

Hey, I have a puppy.

Phil Steele tonight, huh?

Anybody else get NCAA 08 last night at Wal-Mart?

Ok, the 800 lb. gorilla…if they are guilty, I agree with the consensus. Put them in a cell with somebody with a daughter or niece and ignore them. But I knew there was cell phone video back in April. There was allegedly video of her hugging the guys after their act, like she enjoyed it. If that’s true, I hope she gets the scarlet “W”. Now it’s time to go to the gym and work out relentlessly, since my niece turns 18 in just over 14 years.

How stupid do you have to be to even think about doing that? Then record it on video? Points abound for Minnesota.

They were just trying to be like the local pros.

I’m gonna have to go ahead here and be the guy who can’t help but point out that if you let football players convince you into doing tons of shots, and you’re pretty much the only one doing them, this is the sort of shit they’re going to pull on you.

1. -
   Um, how does Minnesota football players allegedly committing sexual assault constitute “one more reason to hate lacrosse?” It’s ignorant, blanket statements like this that show how the falsely accused in that case will NEVER know peace the rest of their lives and why any repurcussions for Mike Nifong and his enablers will likely not match their crimes. If the Duke case becomes a rallying cry for such vital, basic tenets of our justice system as guilty until proven innnocent and right of the accused to due process—so much the better. Why don’t we let the justice system sort this one out, rather than use it as an opportunity to re-indict three boys recently declared INNOCENT by the powers that be.

I think you misunderstood comment #3, which, if I understand it correctly, reports that the commenter has already seen numerous people rush to the defense of the ejaculatin’ Gopher on the grounds that the Duke kids turned out to be innocent of felony-level crimes. Read the police report Orson linked to see how abhorrently inapt that analogy is.

As for the Duke kids, you’ll only get a limited amount of sympathy from me for that bunch of ill-behaved, over-privileged meatheads. One suspects that Mike Nifong’s real victims are poor, black, and still rotting in North Carolina prisons.

hawkeye, what’s your take on the e-mail sent by the lax player after the party? What about the party itself? You make it sound like these guys were hanging out at prayer service when someone came into the church and accused them of something. Regardless of the ruling, something happened. If they had behaved themselves, it would have just been another job for those entertainers and there would be no need to accuse.

I wouldn’t pick on hawkeye, he too went to law school with Matt Groh.

Something else, does the FBI and Secret Service get involved with all college rape cases? Those are some big guns to bring in. I didn’t hear anything like that happening with the duke case

I don’t think that anybody will defend the intelligence of her actions, which left her helpless. The fact remains that she was helpless and deserved protection from people who would rape a girl too drunk to stand.

There’s not a place in hell hot enough for them, or the “friend” who left her alone to fend for herself.

Be proud, Gophers. If you can’t score against tougher opposition, there’s always the drunk chick in your apartment who doesn’t know any better.

Yep, this mess is so sickening that we have to distract ourselves with something more wholesome, like the Duke lacrosse case.

If one really hated, we mean, reaaaaaally hated the Golden Gophers, there’s quite a mascot redo a malicious cartoonist could do here.

Soooo, Victim A gets rip-snorting drunk and orders the triple baconator, but it’s the frosty she’s upset about?

May I never have a daughter. Evar. Nevar.

Apologies for the threadjack and any misunderstanding of previous post. First, #12 – where did it say anywhere in my post that the players were not engaged in inappropriate behavior? The email, although abhorrant, was intended in jest and is a reference to American Graffiti (a book assigned in a number of classes at Duke). It seems to me that saying they got what they deserved for throwing a party with underage drinking and strippers is almost as harsh as saying women “deserve” to get raped for getting drunk to the point of impaired judgement. Your confidence that “something happened” that night is beyond the scope of any evidence produced in the last year + of investigation. I implore you, if you have evidence of a crime, to please report it to Mike Nifong—he’d really like to know. I guess the fact that this type of innuendo remains after the declaration of innocence is why I reacted to the initial post the way I did.

The police report in the Gopher case paints a bleak picture, for sure. I remain confident that the criminal justice system will get to the bottom of it (especially if it’s a slam dunk like it appears to be). I’m just saying let’s give it the opportunity to get there.

#13

And I’d be willing to bet he has a lacrosse stick somewhere in his room. God I hate lacrosse.

Allahver — Read the fucking complaint, you dipshit.

I absolutely don’t want to sound like one of those “She was wearing a short skirt, she was asking for it” guys, but I have to agree with Brian@#9. Most intelligent people, around the fifth or sixth shot, will start pondering the question of whether the gentleman proffering said shots might only be looking for something inert and pliable to stick his Golden Gopher in.

Nonetheless, that stupidity pales in comparison to the guy who thinks to himself, “You know what would make this sexual assault better? A documented record of it that could later be entered into evidence in a court of law. Skeet skeet skeet!”

ironically, if there is ANYTHING the duke lacrosse case proved is that the criminal justice system is positively woeful at getting to the bottom of things.

I just hope justice is done.

The Duke Lacorsse thing really is a shame. Having played and coached the sport it is hard for me to listen to people bash a sport they know nothing about.

So he’s a skeet back?

Sorry, just trying to inject some humor, below-average at that, into a comment thread that has rapidly approached “too intense.”

Oh, and is it standard protocol to describe someone as a “caramel-colored black man”?

Allahver Fist – that’s really f*cked up. May you never have a mother, either.

“May I never have a daughter. Evar. Nevar.”

Sir — At least we agree on something.

is this only the first complaint? are any of the other players being charged? I believe there’s one Gopher fan on the site here (Brewster?)- are there any informative links from Minneapolis papers that you’re aware of?

I still feel sick. Anybody have a secondary team I can throw my support behind for a week or two? I’ve already taken down a few things at my desk this morning.

Brewster —

You’re welcome to join the Miami University bandwagon. It’s small and could always use extra passengers. The team struggled last year, but usually plays well and almost never embarrasses off the field.

#19, the only thing Nifong is interested in anybody sending him is job postings of the non-lawya variety.

The others haven’t been charged. Yet.

It sounds like they’re going to go after Dom Jones (the accused rapist) and probably the Alex Daniels (the camera man) with whatever they can. But while EJ Jones will probably avoid criminal charges, his playing days in Minnesota are probably numbered.

The speculation is that the “R.M.” in the complaint is Robert McField, who is currently serving a term in prison for armed robbery. Many up here are speculating that he’s the witness, and is offering up information to shorten his sentence. We’re one classy bunch up here.

Thanks, and here’s a link with player suspect names:

http://www.startribune.com/gophers/story/1305344.html

as “classy” as Minnesota appears right now, it’s a sad fact of reality that this type of thing goes on way, way more than people probably feel comfortable realizing- and football players aren’t always the offenders

Someone should also check their closets for red, hooded, tOSU sweatshirts, it appears from a quick look at the roster that if the certain D Jones, AD, and KM from the report match the corresponding initials on the roster, they all come to Minnesota via a certain high school in Columbus, Ohio.

Yep, we’re all feeling proud to be part of TIm Brewster’s Gopher Nation today. A timeline:

1. Freshman recruit (RM) neglects to mention he’s been charged with two counts of felony armed robbery
2. Team discovers this and kicks him off the team
3. University, a bit slower on the uptake, does not kick him out of school.
4. RM pleads guilty to lesser charges and gets set to head to prison for a dozen years.
5. RM- who is still apparently living in University housing, for whatever unfathomable reason – challenges 18-year-old non-student to drinking contest
6. Ewwwww….
7. Fulmer Cup points abound for Minnesota.

That is correct, all 3 do come from a certain high school in Columbus. Of course, this begs the question of: If they were such great prospects, how did Glen Fucking Mason of all people get them to Minnesota? Did he set up some sort of underground railroad? Or perhaps there were underlying character issues that tOSU knew about and GFM didn’t. After all, he did offer a scholarship to McField, who was WANTED FOR ARMED FUCKING ROBBERY!!!

No one ever deserves to be raped. Period. It makes me literally nauseated to read that because the alleged victim had too much to drink, that she was partially responsible for the alleged assault.

How many of you have ever gotten drunk at a party? How many of you have had eight shots or drinks? How many of you can honestly say that you’ve never, ever, ever made a decision to drink too much once you got started?

If you have ever allowed yourself to get to that point of intoxication, then the only thing separating you from the alleged victim was your luck that no one with you assaulted you, male or female.

Yes, what she did was unwise. But why is that relevant? If the alleged assault actually occurred as in the police report, then her actions would have been harmless had there not been individuals who took advantage of her stupor.

Oh, and Allahver Fist?

“Soooo, Victim A gets rip-snorting drunk and orders the triple baconator, but it’s the frosty she’s upset about?”

Thanks for reminding us that women who enjoy sex are all whores! I mean, once a slut gets started, who the fuck is she to say who gets on that train?

“May I never have a daughter. Evar. Nevar.”

I could not agree with this sentiment more.

Wipe the whole rape part out for a second.

No daughter = not sitting in stands with a Gopher hat on as the P.A. announces names of players who’ve gangbanded my daughter, which, apparently, was A-O-Fuckin’-K with her.

Toss the rape back in and we’re back in the realm of extremely poor judgement on her part. Not the asking-for-it scenario, but the you-did-what?-while-your-‘friends’-were-around-and-this-happened?!? scenario.

I’m not seeing the guy that filmed it as being a defendant. Am I missing something?

Oh, and is it standard protocol to describe someone as a "caramel-colored black man"?

Only in thug-rotica, Majorly. But when you’re writing police reports about this kind of nastiness, a little literary flourish helps the hours go by a little more smoothly.

Accessory after the fact liability under Minnesota common law? A conscience? Common sense? A clue?

Mr. Fist:
if you’ll read the link i provided a few spots above, every person who, umm, participated in some way has been arrested previous to this sworn complaint, and the article explains that charges are expected to drop against the others at some point in the future…

oh yeah, and i almost forgot: “Take it easy, Champ. Why don’t you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while…”

This kind of thing got the Gopher basketball coach Jim Dutcher fired in the eighties, which of course led to Clem “Player oversight is someone else’s problem” Haskins.

Good luck, Coach Brewster! You’re going to need it!

#41
I must have been typing my 2nd comment when you posted that link. Finally some rationality that wasn’t there before. Much appreciated. I’ll be sprinting from the ring, coliseum, and county now.

It also got Paul “I’ll Get Strongarmed into Playing in the Metrodome” Giel fired too, Sean.

The only difference this time was that the alleged crime took place in Minneapolis instead of Madison. That, and they weren’t guilty there.

You know, I may have to reconsider this whole living-in-Minneapoils-after-graduating-from-law-school thing.

Agree with TCOAN @37….but…yes it must be said that the victim showed a wee bit amount of poor judgment in drinking as much as she did—not to mention in her choice of friends.

That said, I hope all those guys involved get the max punishment—both here and in the afterlife.

I have a couple of nieces, one of whom is now 18. Best believe I will warn her of certain things involving alcohol and the male species.

You can stay up there, but adopt St. John’s as your local team.

“You want a hit?” is what Mr. Jones is going to hear alot of when he’s in pound you in the ass prison. He’ll find out first hand what being raped is all about. Good riddance shit bag.

Kudos to whoever it was up there who said that this thing happens more often than we’d like to admit, and not just by football players. There is an amazing amount of sexual assault going on at colleges everywhere, but it by and large goes unreported.

Not to get too political here, but I see it at least in part as an effect of the see-no-evil mentality of sex (and alcohol) education in this country.

I don’t see what the other guys will be charged with (the amateur filmmaker excepted). Nowhere in the complaint does it say the gangbang was non-consensual—does anyone know if indeed it was consensual?
Either way, that part is irrelevant to the rape charge against Jones, and if he’s on camera skeeting on an unconscious girl, it’s gonna be pretty tough for him to argue consent.

I could eff and blind all day and it still wouldn’t reflect the contempt I have for those scum. It may be worth retaining a copy of the charges for the “trust no-one” conversation that I am apparently going to have to have with my 2 daughters… not for some time, fortunately, but still.

Brewster – Correct – All of the players were acquitted of the rape charge in Madison. Still, it looked so bad, head were rolling. And that was before mobile phone video.

As for “the girl showed bad judgement” crew here: What if you got drunk with these guys, you passed out, and they decided to rob you and leave you on the corner of E. Franklin and S. Chicago. Were you still within your rights to not be robbed and put into a position of bodily harm? I think so. The three men abused their position and should be punished for it.

nd1, maybe you missed the memo about this one… a good rule of thumb for the only consensual thing you should be doing with a young woman with a .30 BAC is putting her on a level surface with a clear puking path, or holding her hair back when she pukes.

nd1 — the fact that the victim had a BAC of 0.30 automatically makes it non-consensual. Legal intoxication = legally unable to give consent in most states, I would imagine Minnesota included.

THAT’S something that needs to get a lot more attention in drug/alcohol and sex education both: Boys, if your sex partner is drunk, even if she’s saying yes god give it to me please in exactly the same tone of voice as all those porno actresses you’ve watched, legally what you’re doing is raping her. So don’t fuck drunk girls. Period.

How fucking stupid do you have to be to rape somebody on camera? If you’re going to be human flith at least be smart human filth. Of course, anyone who would pull a train on an unconscious woman (necrophilia, anyone?) then get his rocks off by spooging on her face probably isn’t a Rhodes Scholar. Soon-to-be prison wife, yes. Rhodes Scholar, no.

I don’t want to jump on the “she was asking for it” bandwagon either, but we shouldn’t go ahead and hang this guy based on a Complaint, which prosecutor’s intentionally sprinkle with bias and all the negatives. Just because it says the players weren’t taking shots does NOT mean that is true. That just means that the people who would talk to the investigators (i.e. probably only the victim and maybe someone seeking immunity) offered these “facts.” Just because it says it in the Complaint does not mean it’s true.

     Despite all of that, this guy may be guilty as sin and deserve to rot in hell. I doubt the girl was wholesome though. Then again, nobody deserves to be molested while incoherent, even if they love the “triple baconator” – thanks #18 – while coherent.

1. Doug,

     That’s bullshit. Drunk sex does not equal rape. Prove me wrong.

56 — If there was immediate id of both the perp and victim in evidence taken DURING the sexual assault, then we’re far past the “hold on it’s just a complaint” stage. The details you’ve chosen to focus on, i.e. whether the players were doing shots too, are totally irrelevant to the felony sexual assault charge.

OPS: You mean to tell me that someone’s making a straw man argument in an online forum? Why, I never!

Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day Dept:

Was that a Black on White crime? If it were the other way around, like the Duke case, I think this thing would have already hit the fan throughout the country and not just in Minn.

Although some fanatical, or pre-historic areas of the world (such as the Middle East, for example) are out of control, I would not mind their version of justice for rapists, which I think….

…consists of cutting their weenies off so they can’t rape no more….

…or a less barbaric alternative, such as chemical castration….would not be too shabby.

1. is right, legally, when intoxicated someone is incapable of giving consent. It’s the same reasoning for statutory rape—someone underage is legally incapable of giving consent, even if they say yes.
   I posed the question because that statute is almost never actually used, particularly on college campuses—the rate of rape would be 75% if drunk sex were considered rape. So what I meant with my question was this—is she saying the sex was non-consensual, or is she saying she consented to the sex, then passed out and was raped?

I’m not an expert on the legal code, but in anyplace I’ve ever been, being legally drunk means the individual legally cannot give consent, same as if they were unconscious or otherwise incapacitated. And thus even a “yes” from a potential sex partner becomes meaningless in that regard.

Now, said partner doesn’t necessarily have to accuse the guy of rape, or bring charges or whatever. I’m sure that kind of thing happens a lot. But if she does, and can prove she was legally drunk when they guy had sex with her, he’s screwed, in more ways than one.

You’re welcome to confirm this with a legal professional, of course, but my understanding for years has been that sex with a drunk girl leaves you wide-open to a rape charge.

Pete: Shocking, truly.

But what if I am drunker than she is and the girl is older? Do I become the victim in this case of drunk sex?

Stacy Keibler Luvs Me,

Nope, it was a Chocolate on Chocolate crime. If it was a race crime, the mob would be out with torches and pitchforks. It is Minnesota, after all.

#64:
          That’s why its rarely prosecuted—most times, both parties are drunk, and 99% of the time, both have consented (literally, if not legally).

You’re welcome to confirm this with a legal professional, of course, but my understanding for years has been that sex with a drunk girl leaves you wide-open to a rape charge.

When I was a grad student / TA one of my students accused a guy of rape under these circumstances. He ended up getting the boot from campus, after a debate that was unexpectedly acrimonious for a veeeeeeeeery liberal northeastern university. It seemed to me to be confirmation that applying the “no humping hammered hotties” rule of thumb had reached the level of sound legal advice.

"no humping hammered hotties"

I expect Orson to make this into a tag soon.

#60:
Actually, in the Middle East, if you rape an unmarried woman, all you have to do is marry her. Then, no harm, no foul. I prefer our system of law, thankyouverymuch.

This whole post/thread has made me feel sick. I think I’m skipping lunch.

As a father of two daughters all I can add is, well said, TCOAN.

Oops Pow Surprise #58:

I used the example of one fact (players not taking shots) because it had been used in a previous post. My point was that everything in a Complaint is not necessarily the undisputed facts. Better example: the video, which none of us have seen…the prosecutor interprets from it the victim’s state (unresponsive) …that is not an undisputed fact. Prosecutors can be scum too. Not saying that is the case here, but most people on this board have taken these facts as true. They may not be.

The Hennepin County Attorney is the complete anti-Nifong. If he’s charged Dom Jones, that means he’s convinced that he’s committed the crime and are guilty beyond any doubt. Mike Freeman (this one, at least) is a good guy.

Cardiac Kids @ #57:

Prove me wrong.

No problem.

In State v. Griffith, 480 N.W.2d 347, the Minnesota Court of Appeals upheld a rape convction despite the fact that the victim was (a) voluntarily intoxicated and (b) fully aware of what was going on. Plus, unlike the alleged victim in this case, the victim in Griffith wasn’t so drunk she couldn’t walk on her own.

Just to back up Cardiac Kid, because I feel he was misinterpreted, if you don’t believe prosecutors can be a little bent, check out Genarlow Wilson’s situation.
I am not refuting Brewster Crew, as he is clearly closer to the situation than I am, but sometimes cases involving the semi-famous like this can tend to be more polarizing and we shouldn’t convict anyone before all the evidence is in.

That said, I think they’re guilty.

This is obviously a subject that gets me fired up, but I concur with Cardiac Kid and Kecalf Bailey that until a guilty verdict is declared, the men are innocent.

I think what Mike Nifong did was as bad as rape— he just made it that much harder for legitimate victims of rape to come forward.

That’s the culture and player that Mason, in no small part, helped build.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2004/jan/30/minnesota_investigating_athletes/

His players just managed to get caught turning it up to 11.

#76, Minnesota recruits were going to the Vu well before Glen Fucking Mason was here, and I’m sure they’ll be going there long after. I’ll see what I can find out.

#69: Learn something new everyday.

I thought if they cut off the hands of thieves, they would do the same for rapists.

I totally agree, our system of justice is comparatively very good, and kind of cringe whenever I leave the country.

But, it seems that criminals tend to get off too easy in the good ’ol USofA.

I wonder if the young lady was simply a random person that showed up to this party or if these players were friends of hers. Additionally, I wonder if she was the only girl present— it seems if there were any other females present, they would have stopped this. Unless, of course, they were passed out drunk as well, and this problem is more widespread than is being reported. But it also stands to reason that any self-respecting man with a conscience would have stopped it as well.

In any case, whenever you choose to intoxicate yourself, you must recognize that you are putting yourself in a vulnerable position regardless of sex, physical condition, or anything else. You are less able to defend yourself (physically or verbally); as a consequence, if you act responsibly, you should only get drunk to the point of physical incapacitance with a person or people that have your full trust and are able to help you should you need it. Otherwise you provide others with the opportunity to take advantage of you, whether it’s through mugging you or violating you in a way that no one ever should.

It’s truly a shame that these young people, both victim and perpetrators, made so many bad decisions.

The error in judgment on the part of these players is that they did not sign to play at Colorado, where these cases are always dismissed.

#78:
No, I understood what you were getting at…and Islamic law considers rape a capital offense. But it is much easier to prove that just “sex” outside marriage occurred, and often the defense will point to a visible bump of pregnancy to point the finger back at her. And in many Islamic countries, it takes four men to back up a woman’s rape allegation. That is not easy to get considering the shame that premarital sex is associated with in the Islamic world.
With that, I’m done with this thread.

Maybe this should be required reading for all the young ladies, so they don’t make the same mistake of letting some dudes get them drunk and having their way with them…

No one deserves to be raped, but if you’re a girl in a room with a bunch of guys, and you’re the only one drinking, you had better stop right and quick and get thee out of there.

#80, Gary Barnett released a statement, “the truth is, she was a terrible drinker.”

#79-
Obviously you didn’t read the fax that Orson linked to…although as previously stated, in a report, what is given isn’t necessarily fact. She wasn’t the only girl present, she didn’t just “show up,” and yes, when you imbibe you put yourself up as an easier mark.
HOWEVER, to all you men out there…who have hopefully never been women on a college campus: It ain’t that easy.

If a friend invites you to go somewhere and she trusts the people, you find yourself trusting them. Many times people will do things to “fit in” ESPECIALLY women, including drinking, being promiscuous, whatever. Doesn’t make it right, but it does happen.

And I must thank #37 at this point too. Just because the “victim A”chose to have sex earlier in the evening (regardless of # of partners) does NOT negate what happened later wasn’t consensual (according to statements). And because her “friend” left to potentially get some booty doesn’t mean she should be in the 9th level of hell either. How many of you have left your wingman for a booty call or potential hook up?

I’m not saying that this girl’s decisions were the best, but until you have been a girl trying to fit in with the crowd, don’t judge her, she’s not the one to be put on trial. (And it always seems that reputations, and not actions, come more into play on cases like this…and it really shouldn’t)

Chuck #73:

     I have not read that case, but thanks. I’ll take your word for it out of context. I will be damned. You do learn something new everyday.

Maybe this should be required reading for all the young ladies, so they don’t make the same mistake of letting some dudes see their faces in public when they don’t have a male family member escorting them and having their way with them…

No one deserves to be raped, but if you’re a girl in public without your brother, father or husband, and you’re showing your face and wrists, you had better stop right and quick and get thee out of there.

If they’re convicted, they’re scum and I hope they get to spend a lot of time along with a large guy named Bubba, etc. etc.

And, I hope the victem gets lots and lots of therapy, and a move to somewhere far far away, because she’s going to need it.

However, I want an answer to the question posed earlier… what if the guy is drunker than the girl, or they’re equally drunk, or the girl isn’t drunk at all and the guy wakes up the next morning and decides he doesn’t want to admit to his friends he slept with her voluntarily (think big girls in heystacks in WV if you need to), so he decides to file charges?

Also, how do balance the idea of not being culpable if you (male or female) consent to sex while you’re drunk, but being culpable if you consent to driving while you’re drunk and killing someone? And for the record, I’m all for chaining drunk drivers up to the front of their cars and running them in a figure 8 race. So I’m not advocating being soft on crime here.

it is amazing how the big 11 schools find all these smart football players that meet such strict academic requirements…my compliments to mr delaney

There’s really no legal answer to ‘what if they’re both drunk’? In reality, is each party accuses the other, then suspicion will be on the man, as he is the active party during sex. There is no legal distinction made for level of intoxication (i.e. one more drunk than the other)—once you are legally above the limit, you can no longer consent.
The reason more people don’t just file charges for drunk sex they’re embarrassed by is that the vast majority of the time its not worth the trouble to do so. Think about whats worse—your friends finding out you slept with a big girl, or the entire campus hearing you got raped by a girl, plus having to deal with the police, physical exams, courts, etc.
The difference between drunk driving and drunk sex is that driving is not an act which requires consent otherwise. If you haven’t had a drop to drink, you don’t need to ask your car if its ok to take him out for a spin, and the car isn’t going to say no if it doesn’t want to go. Sex does require consent otherwise, and drunken consent is not legally considered consent.

But is there any difference in the consequences of sodomizing the tailpipe of the car based on whether it’s running on regular gas or ethanol?

That still doesn’t really answer the question though—what if both parties are more or less equally drunk. I’ve screwed my fair share of drunk girls but I don’t feel that I’ve ever raped anyone. Hell, I can think of several instances where I’ve been hitting on a girl and subsequently backed off because I was still mildly drunk but she had gotten out-of-control shitfaced. There’s a difference between “can’t legally drive but can still do pretty much anything else” drunk and .30 BAC.

If 2 drunk people have sex, is each one of them raping the other??

And to be clear, I’m not defending the actions of the players here (assuming it happened as described in the police report). As I said, there’s a difference between two drunk people getting it on and some asshole raping a passed-out girl.

Which begs the question of which act is stupider:

1. Raping a passed-out girl despite the fact that you are a football player and as such could go out to a bar and have your choice of any of several dozen consenting hotties, or

2. Having your buddy videotape it??

Quote: But is there any difference in the consequences of sodomizing the tailpipe of the car based on whether it’s running on regular gas or ethanol?

Comment by DevilGrad — July 17, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
-—————————————————————————————————-
Only if the car was running recently- in that you’re gonna end up with a drastic need for pain relievers, soap and burn ointment…otherwise probably just the soap after and praying that there’s no one nearby with a camera or in the driver’s seat…