FULMER CUP UPDATE: DUKE ENTERS IN THE WORST WAY POSSIBLE
The Fulmer Cup is supposed to be fun–dark fun, sure, but fun nonetheless. However, Duke makes their entrance into the Fulmer Cup in what is arguably the worst way imaginable with misdemeanor charges of death by vehicle and driving left of the center line for wide receiver Raphael Chestnut, and in no way resembles fun, funny, or even titter-worthy.
Chestnut was involved in a collision on a curve during a heavy rainstorm in Stokesdale, North Carolina with a car driven by Douglas Smith, 50. It’s bad enough that the impact killed Smith; it dives into gutpain awful with this sentence:
His wife and infant in his car weren’t injured, and Chestnut wasn’t seriously injured.
A rare and horrible strike of ill fortune just rent one family asunder, made a wife a widow, and took one college student’s psyche and put a guilt dent in it he may never fully recover from in this lifetime. HA ha…um, ha. Yes. No mention of DUI, either. This is just life striking in horrid and inexplicable fashion as an instant of carelessness, inattention, a freak gust of wind, fiddling with the radio, whatever it was metastasized into major personal tragedy.
Duke is awarded two points if the charges stand. But Jesus, we’re queasy about awarding points for something that seems far less “boys will be boys” misbehavior and far more “why oh why cruel fate” in our ledger.
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1
Halleck T. says:
It does seem morbid to add the points. With an asterisk, perhaps?
February 28th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
2
Gator KK says:
Don’t add them at all.
I laughed when Anna Nicole died, I would laugh if Jenn Sterrgerrer electrocuted herself with a vibrator or was decapitated by an exploding implant, but putting this in the Fulmer Cup just wouldn’t seem right.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
3
Paco says:
Here, here…..move to strike from the record.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
4
CouchBurnin'Girl says:
I move to strike from the record as well. This is tragic and not in the spirit of the games.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
5
dawgjamesdawg says:
Long time reader never commented. DO NOT give points. This was a tragic accident and should not of even been considered for points nor mentioned on your web site. If DUI or under the influence of drugs then automatic winner but not this.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
6
PeterPumpkinhead says:
Manlaw – if it makes you almost cry, it’s not Fulmer Cup points appropriate
February 28th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
7
sb says:
I second the move…this fateful event has repercussions that noone wants any part of . “There, but for the grace of God, go I…”
February 28th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
8
Mark says:
What everyone else said. Fulmer Cup is for drunk college kids stealing gay sheep or taxis or something, not this.
February 28th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
9
SebastianLaBaa says:
As a gay sheep, I take umbrage at that remark.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
10
Andy says:
The Fulmer Cup, as I can tell, was designed for idiotic criminal behavior. If it is determined that this was a complete accident, and was just due to bad roads, bad conditions it should be expunged. Charges can still exist, even if its a tragic accident. If it is determined to be idiocy, I think points are still warranted. People die in order to make the Darwin Awards possible, and I know people laugh at those.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
11
Mormon T. Suxorz says:
I believe this is what is commonly referred to as an accident. Stealing a cab after a drunken night at a strip club is not an accident. God bless this site and the people who inhabit it for having a conscience. It feels strange, but it is good to have.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
12
smq says:
I disagree. A charge is a charge. Ellis T. Jones’ taser victims weren’t laughing in “boys will be boys” fashion. Consistency is a price you pay when you play the Fulmer Cup game.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
13
dbldomer7375 says:
Sad.
From the WRAL-TV site, the following quote: “The patrol said alcohol or drugs weren’t involved in the Sunday wreck, which happened on a curve during heavy rain. Chestnut was driving 65 mph in Stokesdale when his vehicle collided with Smith’s.”
Definitely not Fulmer Cup worthy.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
14
Kenny says:
Remove! Remove!
On the side of jurisprudence: Does Mike Nifong see this incident come across his desk or is it a different district?
February 28th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
15
sb says:
#8, the Darwin Awards are examples of natural selection…people may die (or at least minimize their ability to procreate), but they are proving a law. This appears to be the overarching “hand of God” and not “college athletes gone crazy”.
#12…isn’t Nifong about to be disbarred, and thus has no desk?
February 28th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
16
Todd says:
If the Fulmer Cup is supposed to highlight (and reward?) the criminality and stupidity of a school’s players, then I don’t think this deserves points. Charges might be brought, but the Duke player obviously wasn’t out to commit a crime (a la Ellis Jones) and he wasn’t doing anything incredibly stupid and reckless resulting in a crime. It’s just plain bad luck for all involved. Strike the points.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
17
Murphy says:
There is a reason some things are called accidents. I toss my $.02 in the “remove” corner.
This makes me want to puke, not laugh.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
18
Annonymous says:
Why a debate? No one wins anything once the Fulmer Cup is over. This isn’t an official award. No one is going to lose their jobs one way or another. No heads will roll if EDSBS makes an exception for this incident but not the one in two weeks. If the Fulmer Cup decends into chaos and disbands over this incident, no (or very few) riots will occur, no one will die, no (or very few) governments will topple…this is supposed to be fun. What happened in North Carolina isn’t fun.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
19
HFS says:
Another vote for the general sentiment. If Nelson Muntz wouldn’t point and say “Ha Ha” at the perp, then it doesn’t count. Even Nelson would tear up at this.
February 28th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
20
maskedavenger says:
“He wasn’t doing anything incredibly stupid and reckless resulting in a crime.”
Actually, the point of the charge is that he was doing something stupid and reckless. He was allegedly driving at 65 m.p.h. on a wet road while taking a corner. This reckless driving led to a death and recklessness will be an element of the charge that needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt before he can be convicted.
A lot of the crimes in the Fulmer Cup world have victims. If I remember correctly, we have discussed sexual and physical assaults, punters who have had their legs stabbed by teammates, etc. The alleged perpetrators in those situations may be “more” blameworthy because those are intentional acts as opposed to reckless one, but there are victims involved nonetheless.
I think what makes this alleged crime different is that it is one that most of us can envision actually committing ourselves, while the random acts of violence that permeate the college football seem unlikely to occur in our world. Perhaps it is also the first death related to the Fulmer Cup, which of course, makes the topic solemn.
So include it or don’t, but Mr. Smith is not the only victim, and a lot of the times we are laughing, we are doing so at some victim’s expense.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
21
Orson Swindle says:
We’re leaning toward remove. But keep ‘em coming.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
22
AUgrad says:
I suggest we don’t count this in the Fulmer Cup for the reason you already said -
in no way resembles fun, funny, or even titter-worthy.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
23
John says:
Keep the points only if it’s DUI, otherwise this is just a horrible accident that could have happened to anyone.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
24
Hook'em Tide says:
MY main point: What if for the sake of argument alcohol WAS involved. Would it not be just as tragic? Would points be awarded then?
Just curious as to whether its the “tragic” aspect or the “blameworthiness” aspect that really removes this from Fulmer Cup Contention.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
25
Murphy says:
I understand the argument about laughing at the expense of victims. I also understand the Law of Unintended Consequences.
Who among us hasn’t driven a bit too fast for the conditions, or cut the angle on a curve like Jeff Gordon, or simply drifted over because junior dropped his Big Mac in the back seat? Stabbing a punter in the leg can be funny because the victim still wanders the earth. There’s just no way to make this one funny.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
26
Erik says:
I struggled with this one. The Fulmer Cup *is* about bashing programs that recruit/keep players who make and are known to make poor decisions. I was going to argue that the program couldn’t have known that this sort of thing was possible, but that’s not true. Reckless driving is certainly common to people who exhibit poor decision-making skills, and that is definitely something of which the coaching staff must have been aware. I can’t draw parallels to some crime that couldn’t possibly be seen coming. The coaching staff should have known that this was a possibility.
I’d leave the points.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
27
goheels says:
Wow. I played against Chestnutt in high school (he went to dreaded rival Reidsville) and know that he’s a nice kid. I know exactly where Stokesdale is and for those who are concerned, the roads aren’t awful in Stokesdale, but we’re talking about one of the poorest counties in NC. I say don’t add the points–this shouldn’t even be a debate. My condolences to the families of those injured in this tragedy.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
28
PeterPumpkinhead says:
I don’t care if alcohol was involved, it’s the tragedy of it that removes it. The guy who got stabbed in the leg could laugh at it someday. Mrs. Smith is never going to laugh at this.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
29
That 5.0 Guy says:
I’ve had a moment where I blacked out at the wheel (momentarially) and got into a minor accident. I just lost a moment in time. No one was hurt (except for my bumper) but it happens sometimes. I agree with striking the points; the big linkage between most previous Fulmer points is that usually there was some criminal intent or lack of self control. This sounds like a car on a rainy road and a loss of control due to the conditions. It’s not his dumb move that caused it; he happens to be the one assigned the blame for this particular event.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
30
goheels says:
http://www.reidsvillereview.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RVR/MGArticle/RVR_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149193425695&path=%21frontpage
That will be the definitive newslink until somebody else picks the story up. Sad, sad story.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
31
Go Blue, Eh! says:
Speeding on a rain soaked road: Reckless? Probably. Stupid? Possibly. Criminal intent? No. I think that this last element is what separates this incident from being legitimately Fulmer worthy.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
32
Hook'em Tide says:
ANd is this REALLY the worst way possible? I mean, you could have a “Auburn cornerback found making surfboard out of dead babies” or a “Tennessee O-lineman founded an alleged ’snuff-film’ studio.” I can think of worse.
Prayers to the families involved. Don’t count ‘em
February 28th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
33
bama_buck says:
Strike from the record.
On the rare chance that the family somehow heard that the death of a husband and father had factored into some sort of game, the Fulmer Cup, would cease to be funny and we’d all feel very badly.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
34
Aerobab says:
Maskedavenger in #20 is dead on. Kudos, brother.
The excessive speed of Chestnut’s vehicle in inclimate conditions is the kicker in this awful sequence of events. IF Chestnut was drunk (thank goodness he wasn’t) , would the story be any “funnier”? If he were drunk he most certainly would be tagged with FC points, commensurate with every other “DUI” arrest that has warranted FC points.
Bottom line is that he made a however-momentary bad decision; a decision that had unintended and irreparable consequences. I’m under the impression that the scope of the FC is to capture the legally-chargable, bad decisions of NCAA student-athletes. (The “scope” is different than the “spirit”, but that’s for another time.) My heart aches for this young man, but unfortunately he falls within the scope of the FC scoring system.
I vote that points stay, but I will also not have a chapped ass if [POINTS REDACTED] happens either.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
35
maskedavenger says:
Since we are apparently going to have an ethics/line-drawing day, here is a situation that just came up in Detroit. The Red Wings signed Todd Bertuzzi, who in 2002 sucker punched Steve Moore and broke three of his vertebrae. Bertuzzi was suspended for 17 months and Moore has never played again. But he is alive, so is this funny? How about Rudy Tomjonavich? It has been nearly 30 years since Kermit Washington’s punch and Tomjonavich eventually fully recovered. Is this now funny and if so when did it become so?
I, like I presume everyone who reads this blog, have enjoyed the Fulmer Cup (at time immensely) , and probably will do so in the future. But I don’t think it is easy to draw lines with how much harm/trauma a victim has to endure before we decide not to laugh.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
36
PSUrob says:
motion to strike from the record!
February 28th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
37
Aerobab says:
“Speeding on a rain soaked road: Reckless? Probably. Stupid? Possibly. Criminal intent? No. I think that this last element is what separates this incident from being legitimately Fulmer worthy.”
#31, please review previous FC cup points for “Criminal Intent”. Only the Ellis kid comes to mind. DUI is not “criminal intent”. Stealing a taxi is not “criminal intent”. Theft of a gay sheep is not “criminal intent”. Fightin’-in-the-club is not “criminal intent”. Abusing the gf in a domestic dispute is not “criminal intent”. I could go on, but I won’t, because I think you catch my drift. VERY few of our FC offenses are the result of someone looking to do wrong.
Please reconsider your logic.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
38
CouchBurnin'Girl says:
Stabbing a punter in the leg can be funny because the victim still wanders the earth.
This is a bull shit statement. What about the victims of sexual assault? They still wander the earth but their lives probably won’t ever be the same. And I’m talking in the “fucked up beyond repair” type of way.
Junior year I took an interstate curve too fast in the rain and ended up slamming into (and skidding along) the median. By the grace of God I wasn’t hurt and no one else was involved, but the car that saw the accident and stopped to help contained a family of 4.
Now, I’m not lecturing or looking down upon anyone – I have made just as many jokes and find as much humor in the Fulmer Cup as the next guy – but maskedavenger is pretty dead on: Something like this could happen to any of us, thus we’re a bit squeemish when it comes to applying the incident to something we look upon as humorous.
I still don’t think we should count the points – it’s tragic and asking for bad karma – I just wanted to share additional thoughts.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
39
Johnny says:
This one just feels wrong. Still waiting on Marshall to give us one that feels right.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
40
dogtown gator says:
Would we be feeling different if this Thug McSmith at Tha U?
Part of me wants to be cold-hearted and award the points. Then I remember that I read this site to be entertained, and even occasionally informed.
Here’s a thought/qualification for entry: Would Jeff Ross make fun of this? If the answers no, then strike the points. Otherwise, fuck ‘em.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
41
Pat Dye's Liver says:
Definitely no points for this tragedy. DOesn’t fit the spirit or intent of the Fulmer Cup.
PD’sL
February 28th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
42
Hawkeye Dan says:
This is just tragic.
No Fulmer Cup points for this accident.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
43
Pants McPants says:
Interesting points of debate brought up on both sides. I’m in favor of no points for this, but not due to any rational or logical reasons. It just doesn’t *feel* right.
In the end, I have to use the (unfortunate) pornography analogy- I know it when I see it.
I know Fulmer Points when I see them, and I ain’t seeing ‘em here…
February 28th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
44
PW says:
Do Fulmer Cup points attach only for convictions? Or does any arrest qualify? My point being, I don’t see this kid actually being convicted.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
45
PeteJayhawk says:
Maskedavenger in Comment #20 echoes my feelings.
I don’t get the “remove” thing…the rules are clear – kid on football team gets arrested, gets points. Just because this one makes you feel uncomfortable, you want to strike it from the record. We laughed about a midshipman committing sexual assault at Navy, we laughed about a kid getting stabbed for the crime of kicking a football better than someone else, we laughed at peoples’ lives being rent asunder by the actions of college football players.
Let me repeat: We laughed/cracked wise about a man committing rape/sexual assault at the US Naval Academy. Now that one hits too close to home it’s off limits? Bunch of self-centered fucks, you are.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
46
tzubear says:
Masked avenger makes a very well thought out arguement, but I have to say we should remove this. The Fulmer cup is for our enjoyment. I for one will not enjoy looking at the 2 points for Duke on the leader board. So, for purly selfish reasons, please remove, as it would dampen my joy of the cup.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
47
PW says:
It is a misdemeanor to cause the unintentional death of a person while operating a vehicle in violation of any state law or local ordinance applying to the operation or use of a vehicle or to the regulation of traffic, other than impaired driving, if such a violation is the proximate cause of death.
I strike what I said in #44.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
48
Kenny says:
Orson,
Someone just above wrote about coming to edsbs because of its ability to charm, amuse, entertain and even inform.
The truly classiest aspect of this site has been, and shall remain your ability to talk with such humorous irreverence on any given subject, and downshift to a more solemn tone as the tragic need occasionally and unfortunately arises.
I’ve been reading from the start, and reading the comments since shortly thereafter, and the commenters generally share the same sense of humor as the author. Sure people here make fun of the North Colorado punter here. Sure we bash Gary Barnette for his Gary Barnetteness (and all its subsequent ramifications) and you’ve even recently taken Florida-cooler-skull-bashing guy to task, but this feels different to everyone that’s commented. Even those that have argued for the points have listed a caveat to the specific situation.
All of this That says that, despite all your own tailgating and inherent marginally-safe driving conditions that fundamentally you’re considerate people. Somehow the spirit of the game doesn’t allow for this.
Secondarily, it doesn’t follow the hot, hot, hot corollary.
The whole thing will still be in the slow wheels of justice long after the Fulmer Trophy is awarded anyway.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
49
Aerobab says:
This is simple…if this were a true, unpreventable accident handed down by the grace of God, then the police would not have been forced to formally charge the kid. Bottom line is that the kid was doing 65 in a 50, in the rain, around a curve. Call it what you want (e.g., neglegence, ignorance, stupidity, lack of common sense, bad luck, etc.), but the accident was preventable, thus fairly warranting the misdemeanor charge that was received.
I know we try to shy away from “facts” on this site, but sometimes they have to be used to form a (semi)logical thought; even though that thoguht might pull at the heart the wrong way.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
50
tzubear says:
PeteJayhawk-
another good arguement. Really this is a discussion about US. My feelibng is this tragedy says little about the program in question. Where as (an some didt “laugh” at rape) Navy and the punter stabbing points to lack of institutional control and sanity.
February 28th, 2007 at 3:30 pm