WHAT HAPPENS TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYERS, PART ONE.

Briliant analysis. This is why I’m reading EDSBS instead of finishing my basketball stories by deadline.

O! Cruel internets!

Taurean Charles needs to dial it down a little

I actually know the guy who got his face smashed by that keg. Poor, unlucky SOB.

so how many of those UF players actually graduated?

Good question, but the answer isn’t quite what we’re looking for here. (This is allegedly the province of the NCAA’s APR, but we’re suspicious of it.)

The question is this: if SEC teams are signing 25-30 kids a year consistently, what happens to them in an 85 scholarship world? Are the kids tossed aside like shredded Kleenex? Or is the picture more complex than that?

Not a fan of baseball, I gather? I prefer football myself, but I did see Dickey live and in person at the CWS a couple of years ago… (it was tremendously satisfying, if a bit nerve-wracking, to sit in the middle of twenty thousand Nebraska fans while UF destroyed their hopes.)

I suppose cuts have to be made, orson, just like in ncaa football on playstation. You guys can’t help it if the recruits all buy the “Program Prestige” pitch in week 1 and sign with you right away.

We never DO get that five star fullback, though. The bastard always signs with OSU.

As a female respondent I would like to thank you for that picture of Brian Crum.

He was good for more than football skills.

Zook was able to keep one in school every now and then. Recruiting is very hit and miss.

Remember, even a clock that doesn’t run is right twice a day.

Balance Dept:

I thought this was a he-man college football site. How about some equal time and display pictures of something like this:

http://www.trojanwire.com/football/si-swimsuit-models-meet-the-greatest-marching-band-in-the-history-of-the-universe.php

The second picture is particularly delicious.

Orson,

I’m not sure what you are trying to prove here. Here is what Brian said “You cannot consistently sign 28 player classes without regularly discarding players before their time is up, and where do these guys go once you throw them overboard? I’m guessing the answer is not Harvard.”

The math is true, and given the generally relaxed admission standards (both at UF and UM) the Harvard bit is true also.

As you know, 85 scholarships is the limit. There is no way to make 28 × 4 = 85. It is going to be 112 every time. Thus to sign 28 players 4 years in a row, a school has to obtain 27 players’ scholarships (this, of course, is not even considering the effect of redshirts and a fifth set of recruits).

If, on average, a school signs over 21.25 players annually it must have attrition. The more oversigning the more attrition. Brian’s point is that more attrition is not a good thing. I don’t think he meant to say that no attrition occurs at Big 10 schools.

Figuring out whether the nature of the attrition is the point. Right now, we’re quick-slicing between comparable schools. (And not just Big 10/SEC, either. They’ll be others.)

How those kids are cut from the roster matters here. That’s what we’re trying to find out: how promising recruits don’t pan out, and if there are regional trends.

Clarified?

Yes. Although I doubt you can acquire the data, it would be interesting to see what % left in good academic standing.

The interesting cases will come with something like Tennessee, which from 2002-2005 signed something like 96 kids. That’s more than 85 by a long shot. What happened to them?

Tomorrow.

Academic standing? That’s assuming programs care about graduation. Let’s not leap that far. Let’s just see how many actually honor the full term of scholarship.

I do think academic standing is a relevant concern for the following reasons. If a player leaves in good academic standing, then there is a stronger (though potentially rebuttable) argument that the transfer is the kid’s idea (likely chasing playing time). It also means that the school to that point has fulfilled its promise to educate the player while he is playing football.

But, again, I think that data would be very difficult to acquire. In particular, I think there is a federal statute which protects student privacy.

Again, it’s supposedly included in the APR. It’s certainly important if you want to validate the concept of “student-athlete.”

We’re jaded, and therefore just concerned with who actually holds up their end of the bargain scholarship-wise.

maskedavenger:

Your math is perfect, but because Brian said that schools sign 28 recruits a year does not mean that it is so. My understanding is that a school may have 85 players, maximum, on scholarship at any given time. If Florida only had 21 to give in 2002 (and I don’t know that to be true), then their class met the (then-current) need. (And, as you well know, 21 × 4 = 84.)

The fact that attrition occurs is not disputed by anyone. It’s the reasons for attrition that are important; attrition by transfer or injury or failure to meet team rules versus attrition by academic inadequacy versus attrition for the sole purpose of opening more scholarship spots for more-promising players.

Orsons’ investigation is an interesting exercise in and of itself; the SEC versus Big 10 part of it notwithstanding. It is the stories behind the attrition that make the investigation worthwhile.

Your analysis is great, and it is disturbing the number of recruited players who will not be getting scholarships/lose them later on. But we’re not even considering the factor of walk-ons. Those inflate program sizes, and some of them ultimately do get scholarships.

And maskedavenger, you’re right, it’s called the Family Education Right to Privacy Act (FERPA). The amusing thing about FERPA is that if someone asks you why a student is ineligible for something, you can’t answer the question if it’s academic related, which basically tells everyone it’s academically related. I’ve had that conversation a few times with other people…

Why do we need facts and figures to dispute? What happened to ole’ fashioned, unconditional hatred like:

Fuck the Big 10, Big 12, ACC, PAC-10, MAC, WAC, and everybody else who isn’t in the SEC!! WOOOO!

Isn’t the limit on recruits per year 25 unless you have a kid who enters early and can be counted against the year before if there’s room in that class? so by signing 28 kids, there’s either 3 off the bat that don’t qualify per NCAA standards or you end up with scholarships being pulled a la Steve Slaton at Maryland.

We think that’s correct, NDTom.

One other consideration: “sign and send” guys who go to Hargrave Military or another JUCO count against the total number of scholarship slots.

What’s the correlation between Fulmer Cup points and attrition? I’m sure there’s a chart here somewhere…

I enjoy this debate. The main problem I have with the “Big Conference” comments re: the SEC is the sense of smugness and condescension when this occurs everywhere. Signings can develop in many ways. I am sure none of you are unaware that many coaches will sign kids who are not projected make it academically becaue it gives you a leg up on the kid when he comes out of Junior college. Another thing you don’t see as often, but Shula used alot to deal with scholarship reductions is the Grayshirt whereby a kid signs a letter of intent, but doesn’t become a full time student until the next spring so that he won’t count against scholarship number, yet can be studying the playbook and working out independently. This player will then join the team is sophmore year of college, but is still a freshman in eligibility.
What I am trying to say it that signing over 21 players a year does not always come out to be more than 85 in practice. Furthermore, offering the scholarship and the opportunity it entails should not be construed as reckless on the universities part.
It is, after all, the players responsibility to not kill a man with a beer keg.

Whatever, that kid deserved a keg to the head. He was a douchebag.

Was Turean Charles aka: the kid who used half a keg as a blunt object, the same one who had the documentary made about him and his team? I believe it was called Year of the Bull.

“Steven Harris: finished as role player on defensive line. Entering NFL draft, and should: skills also include fathering children by multiple women at the same time.”
Alright, cut the uptight analysis about schollies…what about ‘magical’ Steven Harris? How many dicks does this guy have? or is this another sad case of a misplaced prepositional phrase?

italiangator,

You’re right. I don’t know the kid, but generally if someone gets smashed in the head with a keg, he either deserved it or one of his friends deserved it. And he’s probably a douchebag for hanging out with people like that. However, having graduated from an SEC school, I am well aware that the football players often go picking a fight. So I really don’t know what I’m trying to say here. In any event, the kid was probably a douchebag.

amac42…yes, that is the same Taurean Charles from the documentary.

And speaking of Steven Harris, my neice had him sign her shirt after the NC celebration…perhaps I should not have let her get so close to such a fertile football stud.

Other than Rudy (or Rudie or Rudi), how many non-scholarship players do teams usually keep?

Also, if a kid signs a letter of intent, does that come with a promise of a scholarship or just a promise to try out? Aside from the Escalade and folding money, I mean.

Ryan Carter suffered a career-ending injury (back).

Todd Bunce quit the team; I don’t think he transferred.

Gavin Dickey was a starting OF for the Class A Everett (WA) AquaSox, which paradoxically is a Seattle Mariners affiliate.

I am glad to hear he is still performing!
You can’t knock a player for trying!!
He just want to play ball and make it like every body
else! I read the story and I know some one was out
to get him!!