JIM DELANY: ONE OF THE BEST MINDS OF THE 18TH CENTURY
by Orson on Feb 12, 2007 2:59 PM EST
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Jim Delany, the commissioner of the Big Ten, does his job well. His job is to represent the interests of the corporation known as the Big Ten, something he's done admirably. He integrated Penn State into the conference, made sure the fine Midwestern hog that is the Big Ten got a wide berth when he was helping build the BCS, and has helped usher in new revenue streams via "the Big Ten Network," a football content provider coming to DirectTV only this fall. Jim Delany's being proactive and visionary. Jim Delany's turning in his TPS reports on time. He's harmonizing synergies and being a charismatic problem-solver and self-starter.
Hi. I work for a failing mid-size paper company.
He's also, to the average college football fan, a faceless powermonger with a rank list of heinous policy decisions to his credit, a few of which would be hanging offenses in a court of tailgaters. His big quote in a Yahoo! Sports article a while back was "I don't work for college football at large." His work in stitching together the mixed gristle and organs of college football into the BCS stands as a perfect example of his best and worst work: a skillfully negotiated pact between large partners with diverse interests generating huge piles of cash that almost everyone of any sense hates, a Frankenstein that almost resembles a living entity.
At least the old bowl system, corrupt and bucolic as it was, had some charm to it, and made few real claims to being a national title system. The BCS instead does it through a melange of computers and open politicking not dissimilar in tone to a four beer discussion at your local swillhole of choice. Its benefit relies more on enforcement of rules benefitting vested interests (especially the Big Ten) and less on creating the shiniest, most alluring carrot of all for the fan: truly open competition for a national title. Instead of a playoff bracket, you get the BCS: faceless, three letters as faceless and meaningless as a government bureaucracy, a simultaneous failure of imagination and vision lurching along like Peter Boyle in Young Frankenstein, minus the invigorating dance number.
That's Delaney on the left, BCS on the right. They never do this, btw.
Delany adds to the list of hanging offenses with a hilariously frivolous broadside on the Big Ten's website this week.
Delany's got a history of overreaction to criticism, and writes a new chapter in it with his defense of the Big Ten's football record in response to Florida's eyeball-scorching trunking of Ohio State in the BCS game. Its title? "To Fans of College Football and the Big Ten." (Remember, to Delany, these aren't necessarily the same people. He doesn't give a rat's ass about college football.)
The EDSBS Cliffs Notes begin, with Delany's deathless prose excerpted below:
With the conclusion of another tremendous college football season and the recent national signing day, there has been a lot written and said about the Big Ten's recruiting efforts across the country, including a recent article in the Chicago Sun-Times entitled "Big Ten needs to find new talent pool - fast" (see full article here). In response to these commentaries, it seems premature for us to lower our admission standards or give up on the tremendous talent pool in the Midwest.
Delany's attempting to channel Frank Luntz here and spin the debate his way. Call it the "Healthy Big Ten Act," with bumper harvests and screaming proletariats hailing the Chairman's every word. Big Ten has dismal year in the bowls, Big Ten goes 2-5 = need for public defense of long-term bowl record and overall conference health. Marginally necessary, we say, and understandable despite the fact most college football fans don't give a rat's ass about conference affiliation and only follow their team.
Bumper harvests for the Big Ten! Smash bourgeois SEC negativity relentlessly!
Fine with us, save for the swipe at the end about lowering admissions standards, clearly a public finger in the eye to the SEC. This means two things in Delany's siege-minded, "I represent the interests of the Big Ten only," 18th-century brain: the SEC is the single biggest rival for attention, profits, and prestige, and that they're recruiting Mongoloids who can't read to play football. Which is true almost everywhere football is played, the Big Ten included. It's unnecessary, provincial, and cheap of him, but then again, that's what an oversensitive barrister playing strictly from the Talleyrand playbook will do: react, overreact, and overreact some more in only the most narrowly defined interests of his client.
Rolling on:
No doubt national programs must recruit nationally wherever the talented students and athletes live. Hats off to Florida and the SEC -- they had a great year.
Because their football players can't read, and have to be told not to eat their mouthpieces, which are not in fact tasty gelatin candies. Though they might want to consider making them out of firm gelatin, because you know they'll just keep choking on those things.
We believe that both the Big Ten and the SEC have been and remain two of the greatest college football conferences in the country. But you may want to keep in mind the following as you review the various recruiting services, listen to talking heads and reflect the blogosphere out there as they compare these two fine conferences. I think most people would agree that head-to-head competition is an effective method to compare relative strengths between competitive entities:
And thus follows a whole bunch of stats about how good the Big Ten is, was, and will be, a fact virtually no one is disputing outside of the most deranged of message board snipefests. Another great political trick: make an argument no one's really making, and then inveigh against it to deflect your real concern, which is that a region with stable or declining population is losing ground in a regionally recruited sport over the past forty years. The Big Ten is as competitive as its been since the glory days of the 50s and 60s, and has won two national titles in the past ten years. Why go bazooka here because of one popgun year?
Because Delany's attempting to sell the Big Ten name, a more important branding than ever given the creation of their extremely stupidly packaged "BigTen Network." He's thinks the value is in the league, not the sport as a national whole. And for his paycheck, that is the correct assumption.
I love speed and the SEC has great speed, especially on the defensive line, but there are appropriate balances when mixing academics and athletics. Each school, as well as each conference, simply must do what fits their mission regardless of what a recruiting service recommends.
Umm, excuse us. Que? Reviving the swipe at the SEC, the guy who oversaw the Fab Five scandal at Michigan flings shit at the conference with a well-worn record of violations. Again, if it's easy, convenient, and in my interests, I'm Jim Delany and I'm doing it to the point of overkill. And what the hell does a recruiting service get into this? Ohio State and Florida, the two teams inspiring the comparison in the first place, make for a disastrous comparision since Florida, the place with all of that non-academics-compatible speed, has marginally higher admissions standards than Ohio State. This isn't saying OSU sux0rz in skoolz or anything, it's just pointing out that the comparison flops from the start, and is disingenous.
In fact, the two bowl defeats from the Big Ten to the SEC this year both run downhill academically. Wisconsin (better school) beat Arkansas (not better school), and Tennessee (where you have, unbeknownst to you, already earned an urban studies degree through your reading of Vibe Magazine,) lost to Penn State, which ranks somewhere around a push.
What are you gonna do with all those Vibe Magazine subscriptions? Get yourself a degree, son.
The academic debate's a canard, and Delaney knows it. He subverts the actual debate by tossing out the cheap inflammatory crapulence of "higher academic standards" when there's little from the bowls to suggest any connection between the two.
Our favorite slice coming up, with frosting and everything:
I wish we had six teams among the top 10 recruiting classes every year, but winning our way requires some discipline and restraint with the recruitment process.
Translation: "I wish I could have as many boyfriends as you do, but I've got this horrible thing called "Not Being a Total Whore" I can't get over." Who knows what Delaney hopes to achieve here, other than defending the Big Ten's somnolent ethos regarding PR and recruiting. The Big 12 and the SEC have consistently abandoned shame and "decorum" (whatever that means--see?) to advance their football programs in the public eye.
Championship games, public stumping from Mack Brown and Urban Meyer for bowl slots, outlandish recruiting tactics...it's all a matter of public record. Does it conflict with the academic mission of a university? Certainly debatable, unless you're like us and are willing to consider teams as semi-professional teams sewed to the hide of major universities who value them for their cash and the overall vibe they sell to potential students.
Yet for the major force behind the BCS, someone who approved the worthless 12th game, and the pope of the Big Ten Network to cry foul on a unversity's overcommitment to football in the name of Mammon stinks of eau d'hypocrite. For one year only, other college football cabals did it faster, better, and stronger than his conference. The Big 12, SEC, and whomever else may be whores, but their business models are nimbler than yours this season, stealing boyfriends and putting all your potential recruits on rock rock.
Therein lies the sting, and the barely concealed spite behind the letter. Delaney's only real recourse is to act like Angela from The Office and begin pointing sanctimonious fingers...while screwing Dwight Schrute on the side. And the rest is just more veiled screeching unworthy of fisking.
Hi. You might recognize me from my job as the chosen representative of the Big Ten.
The Big Ten's ultimate problem isn't a lack of speed, moxie, or prestige: it's a problem of demography. The Midwest's two most populous states, Pennsylvania and Ohio, aren't keeping pace with the explosive population growth in the top five boomers: Florida, Texas, California, Arizona and Georgia. This leaves the Big Ten fighting over talent in their largest states, Pennsylvania and Ohio, a move recruitniks have been trendspotting and discussing for years. The edges other conferences will have in the long run result from population shifts.
This happens in other conferences, too. Look at the blighted Big 12 North for a perfect example of this. It's not like large swaths of Iowa look like something out of Logan's Run...yet. Schools like Iowa have already begun to adapt, though, recruiting diamonds in the rough and working their resources to the max. That trend to "adapt or die" must continue and spread if recruiting trends maintain their downward trajectory for the conference. But numbers don't lie--the only really viable national contenders in the national title picture for the Big Ten have to have pipelines to big population centers: Chicago, the whole state of Ohio, and Pennsylvania. And even then you'll have difficulty keeping up with the sheer range of goodies pumped out by public schools in blossoming Sun Belt communities.
It's a matter of margins and numbers. No amount of bitchcraft by Jim Delaney will change that, and neither will walling up the Big Ten on Direct TV, a move comparable to selling your kidney for beer money in the long run. He's boldly leading the charge back to 1982, legwarmers, skinny tie and all. Fine with us. After all, Delaney's not working for the interests of college football, but rather the Big Ten, which makes him nothing to the average fan like us but...well, nothing at all.
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Too bad Slive is too big of a pussy to respond to this. Roy Kramer would fly up to Delany’s house, punch him in the mouth, shit on his dog, suffocate his wife with $500,000 worth of nickels from the CBS contract, all the while turning a blind eye to recruiting violations.
I miss Roy Kramer.
by AUAlum on Feb 12, 2007 3:12 PM EST reply actions
Why didn’t he just say:
“We don’t need a buncha ignant suth’ners traipsing around our campuses!”
Cripes. I’m a Michigan alum and, by extension, huge fan of the Big 10. But this was a very very cheap shot.
My favorite part is this apparently ground-breaking scientific revelation that an athlete’s speed has an inverse relationship to his IQ:
“I love speed and the SEC has great speed, especially on the defensive line, but there are appropriate balances when mixing academics and athletics.”
Huh? Someone nominate this guy for a Fields Medal!
by steve on Feb 12, 2007 3:13 PM EST reply actions
We actually like Slive’s response: just let the shit go and take an “it’s just football” attitude. Which makes Delaney look insecure and unnecessarily hostile.
by Orson Swindle on Feb 12, 2007 3:14 PM EST reply actions
Does anybody think that this apparently mouth-breathing moron should be allowed to keep his job, much less consume oxygen.
If you ask me, he hasn’t just pushed the region button, but he also hit the race button (indirectly).
by BamaTaxMan on Feb 12, 2007 3:18 PM EST reply actions
To me, this looks a lot like a pre-emptive “Here’s my excuse if it turns out Big Ten football really sucks over the next few years.”
And I’m sorry, but any conference boasting a team that once rode Maurice Clarett to a national title should shut their collective cakehole when it comes to academic standards.
by Doug on Feb 12, 2007 3:18 PM EST reply actions
I have to agree that Delaney’s post was an overreaction to the Sun-Times article, which in itself was an overreaction to the disaster that OSU served up in the Fiesta Bowl and to a lesser extent UM’s performance in the Rose.
Unfortunately, these failings seem to have fed a national assumption – that the Big 10 is not a good football conference and that assumption just isn’t true.
Be that as it may, I don’t understand why Delaney felt the need to unleash this broadsides at this time. While the Sun-Times discussed lowering academic standards, it is not like that paper hold tremendous sway. If a reply is necessary, just stick to the on-the-field results, which are sufficient to refute the claim that the Big 10 is noncompetitive.
by maskedavenger on Feb 12, 2007 3:22 PM EST reply actions
Hell, if I was Mike Silve I’d just send the SEC plane down to Gainesville to have it pick up Moss, Cohen, and Harvey for a trip to Big 10 hq. I’d love to see Delaney shit himself at the sight of those 3 in his office asking him why he thinks they’re dumb.
by italiangator on Feb 12, 2007 3:23 PM EST reply actions
I’m still picking myself off the floor from passing out.
I love how the Big Ten is always better than any other conference, regards of record. Now the excuse is admission standards. This of course can be said this year because tOSU actually turned an athlete away for academic reasons last year.
What a crock of total bullshit.
by Odell 51 on Feb 12, 2007 3:24 PM EST reply actions
Add Tom Lemming to the backhanded-compliment giving asshole list. This is taken from the Sun-Times articles. I would have provided a link in this post, but I’m not a thinker, I’m just athletic and aggressive.
‘The Southeastern Conference is much faster on defense than the Big Ten,’’ said CSTV recruiting analyst Tom Lemming, who has been evaluating players from coast to coast since 1978.
‘’In the Midwest, people are thinkers. In the SEC, they rely on athleticism and aggressiveness on defense. They pride themselves on rushing the quarterback. They appear to be much more aggressive than the Big Ten.’’
If the Big Ten hopes to catch up to the SEC, Lemming suggests the conference must lower its academic standards.
‘’Then they can get anyone into school that they want,’’ Lemming said. ’’It seems to me that no matter who the kid is, he finds a way to get into school. A lot of times it is an SEC school, after the kid spends only four months at a prep school.
‘’People have turned poor students into very good ones and make them eligible to play in the SEC. Few of them wind up in the Big Ten. But many of them are difference-makers and game-breakers. If the Big Ten can’t get those kind of players, it will keep falling behind.’’
by AUAlum on Feb 12, 2007 3:26 PM EST reply actions
Good point, masked…there are overreactions aplenty after this game. Seems to be moreseo than other championship game blowouts, I don’t remember the demise of the SEC being trumpeted after Nebraska-UF ten years ago…
Bottom line, the NFL decides who is talented or not, and with a ruthless grading system that only capitalism in its highest form can provide. Since the Big Ten, and especially Ohio State, puts as many players there as anyone else, it’s a moot point.
Florida played a great game, OSU played a stinker. Florida beat OSU like a drum. That’s it, one game, and it’s over…
by Pants McPants on Feb 12, 2007 3:27 PM EST reply actions
Um, as a UM alum, please note that the Fab Five never happened. You will note, from all appropriate sources, that Michigan basketball forefeited all games from about 1990 to about 1999, and thus went about 0 and 129 (give or take). As the teams did not exist, there is no way the Fab Five, or Chris Webber’s infamous time-out, could have happened.
by Annonymous on Feb 12, 2007 3:27 PM EST reply actions
the Illini will emerge as a third major power in the conference…the Zooker is working his magic as we speak
by matt on Feb 12, 2007 3:27 PM EST reply actions
“I can appreciate why the Big Ten wants to compare itself to the Southeastern Conference. This is a comparison we welcome in the spirit of wholesome intercollegiate athletic competition.”
Mike Slive did respond, gently.
by AUgrad on Feb 12, 2007 3:29 PM EST reply actions
Delaney may be, as Ali G would say, a rabid racialist
by Hook'em Tide on Feb 12, 2007 3:30 PM EST reply actions
i’m trying to figure out how one would go about shitting on a dog. i’m fairly certain you couldn’t do it to my vizsla, martha, without a bitten asshole.
and, for the one millionth time, she is NOT named after martha stewart.
by adam on Feb 12, 2007 3:30 PM EST reply actions
You could do it on a basset hound. They sometimes go for hours without breathing.
by Orson Swindle on Feb 12, 2007 3:36 PM EST reply actions
I’m with several of the commenters on here. Delany should have kept his damn mouth shut, but the article he’s responding to was at least as bad as his letter. The Sun-Times argues that southern athletes are too stupid to get into the Big Ten, so the Big Ten should lower academic standards. Rather than just ask why the S-T is calling these kids stupid, Delany takes a shot at the SEC. Don’t know why he thought it was a good idea, but Taylor Bell and Tom Lemming deserve a post tearing them apart as much as Delany does.
by Sean on Feb 12, 2007 3:37 PM EST reply actions
Is this the same James E. Delany?
Delany, James
401 S Washington St
Hinsdale, IL 60521
630-920-8905
by Digital Dan on Feb 12, 2007 3:50 PM EST reply actions
Northwestern is the Big 10’s only known academic. The SEC has Vandy. The PAC1 0 has Stanford. The Big 12 has Baylor. The ACC has Duke and Wake Forest.
Hell even the Big East has…the Big East has…well shit. Who does the Big East have?
by Cool Hand Mike on Feb 12, 2007 3:52 PM EST reply actions
There are so many reasons to hate this idiot it’s not even funny. Heck, this barely cracks the top 5.
1. Instrumental in the BCS
2. Everything decision he’s made as the Big Ten commissioner
3. Wife has hyphenated last name
4. Played bounceyball at UNC.
5. Speed = Low IQ
by Brew(ster) Crew on Feb 12, 2007 3:53 PM EST reply actions
Considering 95% of SEC defensive linemen are African American I kinda took offense to his statement…. It’s like he’s saying “yes the SEC’s Defensive Linemen sure are fast, but we at the big 11 refuse to allow big dumb black guys into our schools”
by BamaHamr on Feb 12, 2007 3:59 PM EST reply actions
“Northwestern is the Big 10’s only known academic. The SEC has Vandy. The PAC1 0 has Stanford. The Big 12 has Baylor. The ACC has Duke and Wake Forest.”
A few schools that leap to mind were not included on your list: UVA, UM, and Cal. If you are implying that only the schools you listed do not drop their academic standards for football players, that may be the case (I am uncertain about the extent that UVA does), but all three are elite public institutions.
by maskedavenger on Feb 12, 2007 4:01 PM EST reply actions
Certainly even THAT IDIOT is not stupid enough to have a listed phone number, is he? Big Ten HQ’s in Chicago? Maybe I’ll bring a 12ft gator back home to Michigan with me after the Spring Break trip and drop it off in his pool…..
by Mich-Placed_Gator on Feb 12, 2007 4:03 PM EST reply actions
#26,
That would be a correct assessment. Here at Minnesota, we prefer little dumb black guys on the defensive line. They seem to do the same thing as our little dumb white guys there.
by Brew(ster) Crew on Feb 12, 2007 4:06 PM EST reply actions
Aaron Brooks went to UVA so that’s a stretch
Ann Coulter went to UM.
…and Cal? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! All you need to know what to do at Call is load a bong correctly.
by Cool Hand Mike on Feb 12, 2007 4:11 PM EST reply actions
I think Delaney is an idiot and I hate the Big Ten, but wasn’t Kramer the driving force behind the BCS?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_12_226/ai_84546129
by JD on Feb 12, 2007 4:12 PM EST reply actions
Certainly, and no one should suggest Kramer wouldn’t be just as crusty as Delaney is on this. Spurrier challenged him in public on this at SEC Media Days one year.
by Orson Swindle on Feb 12, 2007 4:16 PM EST reply actions
Cool Hand Mike-
The Big East has UCONN!!! Don’t you remember the kinda long haired guitar player in the University Ad? He smirked about their greatness.
by Mormon T. Suxorz on Feb 12, 2007 4:26 PM EST reply actions
Ga Tech, Wake, Duke, and BC are all very good schools in the ACC with above average/bare minimum standards for football recruits. UNC and UVA are great schools too but they recruit at the ACC-minimum standard. Va Tech and FSU recruit functional illiterates with the best of ’em (despite both being decent to good schools for, ahem, real students).
by Herb on Feb 12, 2007 4:32 PM EST reply actions
hey!
That’s legendary Central Michigan head coach Roy Kramer to you.
We take what legends we can.
by Chris on Feb 12, 2007 4:33 PM EST reply actions
Everyone but the PAC 10 accepts Prop 48s. So to combat this the Pac 10 schools like Cal for example will allow you in with an 820 on the SAT. That’s the bottom 15%.
by Cool Hand Mike on Feb 12, 2007 4:40 PM EST reply actions
Delaney’s comment’s really don’t read like jabs at the SEC if you read the Sun-Times article, he was directly responding to what was in there.
As far as the Big 10 lowering standards, when I was a TA at tOSU a few years ago, one of my (non athelete) students told me that her high school GPA was 1.2. The standards, at least for state residents, were already well below those set by the NCAA for atheletes.
by oc phil on Feb 12, 2007 4:46 PM EST reply actions
For some reason, Wordpress ate a previous comment. I pulled up the APRs for both the SEC and the Big 10. As a reminder a 925 = 50% graduation rate. These numbers are cumulative from the 2003-4 and 2004-5 academic years.
In order they are Auburn 981; Florida 966; Northwestern 961; Ole Miss 958; Penn State and Vandy 957; Michigan 952; Iowa and Georgia 950; Kentucky and Arkansas 940; LSU 935; Indiana 931; Tennessee 926; Ohio State 925; Miss St. 920; Minnesota and Illinois 918; Bama 916; Wisconsin 914; South Carolina 911; Purdue 910; and Michigan State 907.
Thus, using solely this metric, the SEC is outperforming the Big 10 academically.
by maskedavenger on Feb 12, 2007 5:02 PM EST reply actions
Brew(ster) Crew-
What’s wrong with a hyphenated name? I hyphenate my name when I publish papers. There’s about a zillion TCOAN Swindles, and even another TCOAN Maidenname, so I just go by TCOAN Swindle-Maidenname. Seems reasonable enough to me.
by The Conscience of a Nation on Feb 12, 2007 5:02 PM EST reply actions
This line from Delany’s letter killed me:
“Not every athlete fits athletically, academically or socially at every university. Fortunately, we have been able to balance our athletic and academic mission so that we can compete successfully and keep faith with our academic standards. "
It’s funny to envision the Big 10(11) as accepting only those of high academic standards. Andy Katzenmoyer was a real genius…
by Geaux Irish on Feb 12, 2007 5:05 PM EST reply actions
Penn State and Tennessee, an academic push? I feel like walking in front of a train.
by Run Up The Score on Feb 12, 2007 5:09 PM EST reply actions
TCOAN-
Merely venom toward an ex. It’s the same reason I don’t purchase flowers anymore. Simply the response of a Gopher spurned.
by Brew(ster) Crew on Feb 12, 2007 5:14 PM EST reply actions
Whoops.
Girlfriend, not wife. I thought that should be clarified.
by Brew(ster) Crew on Feb 12, 2007 5:15 PM EST reply actions
I’m with you Run, JoePa will not eat the brains of his players and actually makes them go to class.
by Nick on Feb 12, 2007 5:15 PM EST reply actions
Hell hath no furry, sharp-toothed fury like that of a gopher scorned.
Flowers are a rip-off, anyway. I’d far prefer the money be spent on booze and a cheap hotel room. Romance!
by The Conscience of a Nation on Feb 12, 2007 5:17 PM EST reply actions
Now if you can shit on a Jack Russell – you’re pretty good. A black Jack Russell? Well my friend, you’re at ludicrous speed, bordering plaid.
by Out of Conference on Feb 12, 2007 5:20 PM EST reply actions
[quote]“Is this the same James E. Delany?”[/quote]
Careful with this… Big Ten HQ is located in a metro area of nearly *nine million people," probably a third of which have Irish-sounding surnames. So the overwhelming likelihood is that the answer to your question is “no.”
And Hinsdale to Park Ridge on the Tri-State Tollway (40-45 minutes one way on a good traffic day) seems like a pain in the butt of a commute for a BCS commish, anyways…
by Papa Lou BSU on Feb 12, 2007 5:21 PM EST reply actions
Bama 916?
Damn, Shula couldn’t just keep them good, he was also keeping them dumb. Basketweaving, anyone?
by Cool Hand Mike on Feb 12, 2007 5:21 PM EST reply actions
Wait – is Delaney the same jackturd that pushed for a late uniform start date in college baseball? Now I get it, he changed his name- his real name was Andy Assauger (Jonsen Poonhammer’s cousin).
by Out of Conference on Feb 12, 2007 5:27 PM EST reply actions
Orson @ #20:
As a proud owner of a half-basset hound, I take issue to the fact that they stop breathing for hours.
They do exhale – just not through their mouths. And it clears the room.
by LD on Feb 12, 2007 5:34 PM EST reply actions
Too bad for Jim Delaney that UF is a better school academically than OSU in pretty much every sense of the word, including tougher admission standards. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of an argument?
by Chas on Feb 12, 2007 5:36 PM EST reply actions
404: Funny Not Found
You dropped a dud on this one Orson.
by Aaron on Feb 12, 2007 5:54 PM EST reply actions
If OSU recruits get any dumber, we’ll have to water them. Same goes for Delaney.
Orson’s demography-as-destiny argument resonates, but those of us who follow the other Ohio schools (chiefly the MAC) have wondered for a couple of years whether UF and FSU might face similar pressures as more Florida universities move up to Division I-A.
Ohio has eight Division I-A football schools, and while OSU still is at the top of most high schoolers’ wish lists, many of them face a choice between being a likely back-up at OSU and being able to start (and still stay pretty close to home) in the MAC.
by DevilGrad on Feb 12, 2007 5:56 PM EST reply actions
Ah, incorrect Aaron. That comment just brought the funny in. Other than that, you’re totally correct.
by Orson Swindle on Feb 12, 2007 5:57 PM EST reply actions
#53
What, Talleyrand references aren’t considered humor?
Actually, this tone is 1) Orson venting, and 2) Orson showing Mssr. Delany that there are intelligent people in the SEC education system that can put coherent thoughts together.
by Geaux Irish on Feb 12, 2007 6:01 PM EST reply actions
An excellent post overall, as is to be expected. However, I wonder if you engage in Delany’s ridiculous debate by trying to parse out the academic winners of the Big 10’s two bowl wins.
Ok, what I’m really trying to say is, Tennessee and Penn State a push? Where are you getting this stuff?
by Greg on Feb 12, 2007 6:07 PM EST reply actions
in response to whoever referred to Baylor as the Big12’s academic Stanford/Northwestern:
while Baylor is the only private school in the conference, it is certainly not prestigious. all it takes to get into Baylor undergrad is a signed check. toughest undergrad schools to get into in the conference are Texas and Texas A&M.
by 12thManchild on Feb 12, 2007 6:15 PM EST reply actions
A basset hound is similar to a wobbegong shark.
by SmoothJimmyApollo on Feb 12, 2007 6:20 PM EST reply actions
#38
Auburn being ranked higher than Vandy shows what that single metric is worth.
by oc phil on Feb 12, 2007 7:21 PM EST reply actions
Blaming bowl losses on academics huh? Us Domers have had that market cornered for years now. Delany is way behind the times
Next he’s going to be blaming big-10 losses on Ty Willingham
by Dr KennethNoisewater on Feb 12, 2007 7:22 PM EST reply actions
Dog-shitting, The Fab FIve as revisionist history, Talleyrand and hypenated ex’s….all in a post about Big-N academics…God I love this place!
by NoVaDamer on Feb 12, 2007 7:51 PM EST reply actions
I believe the sociology department at Auburn may have a little bit to do with that 981.
by Zook Line and Sinker on Feb 12, 2007 8:21 PM EST reply actions
Great write-up Orson, except I’m marginally insulted at the PSU = UT reference.
by PSUrob on Feb 12, 2007 10:20 PM EST reply actions
You should be, actually. That’s a complete inaccuracy as Tennessee is far down the list from Penn State. We plead incompetence, though would point out that it strengthens our point about Delany’s disingenous argument.
by Orson Swindle on Feb 12, 2007 10:30 PM EST reply actions
Ok…some interesting points here, but some bad ones as well. First, Northwestern the only school of note in the Big Ten? Are you kidding? Uh, try Michigan…..
And for those complaining about academic standards for athletes, the fictional idea of student athletes is all but dead. Most of these guys are taking the equivelant of Basket Weaving for degrees, academics is not thier primary concern and their admissions requriements, even at the most prestigious schools, are little more than laughable. Sure, some have “higher” requriements, but stating that there is a big difference between athlete requriements at schools is foolish. College football is a business out there to make money, recruit students that actually do have to compete for entry and programs, and to make Alumns feel good.
by BlueinOhio on Feb 13, 2007 7:37 AM EST reply actions
Orson, also a bit confused as to how you leave Michigan out of the conversation when mentioning top academic schools. While I know they didn’t go bowling against the SEC, they did play the SEC’s bastion of intelligence, Vandy.
Oh, and Delaney is a dick. Damn him for allowing the abomination that is the 12th game. Just shows you that copying any idea that the SEC uses is stupid. Thanks for fucking up football by having a conference championship game.
by Matt on Feb 13, 2007 8:24 AM EST reply actions
Not sure why you folks are coming down so hard on Delaney. He made a very good case as to why the Big 10 is the 2nd best conference.
To #64, nice knee jerk, but not true, as there’s no non-hearsay evidence that any eligible player got “grades for nothing” as the NYT suggested. bama, however, had players admit to easy courses, and they still couldn’t get above 925. Ouch.
by HFS on Feb 13, 2007 9:19 AM EST reply actions
Academic proficiency for athletes? You mean not coloring in their playbooks.
The problem I have with Delaney saying what he did is that we all know what we’re getting with college athletics. I’ll use Big Ten examples to avoid throwing any more kerosene on the fire. For every “Robert Smith” there is a “Ronnie Harmon” (Water Colors, anyone?) and a “Maurice Clarett” and probably a few others of the same ilk. If Delaney believes the Big Ten is producing chemical engineers while the SEC is kicking out retarted hillbillies, he’s dumber than anyone could have imagined, and that’s pretty tough for me to believe. He just needs to shut up for once and let the media do what it does. Specifically, nothing of any redeeming value.
by Brew(ster) Crew on Feb 13, 2007 9:41 AM EST reply actions
Itialiangator: I agree, but you might want to wait till Moss isn’t high before you fly him up there.
by Chris on Feb 13, 2007 9:48 AM EST reply actions
Chris -
Doesn’t that pretty much kill the plan, then?
by HFS on Feb 13, 2007 9:57 AM EST reply actions
#24, Baylor is a baptist bible college masquerading as a “pretigious” private university. It’s easy to get into. Texas & aTm are probably the toughest to get into in the Big12, but that’s mostly because the top 10% of all Texas high schoolers are guaranteed in. Bottom line: the Big 12 has no equivalent to Vandy, NW, Michigan, Stanford, et al.
by JP on Feb 13, 2007 10:48 AM EST reply actions
So you are criticizing a guy who helped create a system which in the end helped put Florida in the championship game instead of some flunky team with no losses?
I guess that makes sense in today’s world.
by keosahawkeye on Feb 13, 2007 12:49 PM EST reply actions
RE: 69
“the fictional idea of student athletes is all but dead”
“stating that there is a big difference between athlete requriements at schools is foolish”
I beg to differ on this idea. My freshmen year at Stanford, the quarterback recruit repeatedly helped me in the linear algebra and differential calculus class we were in. I struggled while he aced the class. There is a big difference in how some schools treat student athletes. Then again, we almost did go defeated last year so maybe this is a bad example.
by MM on Feb 13, 2007 4:16 PM EST reply actions
Michigan is in the same boat as Texas… it’s competitive because of population. In reality it’s just as hard to get into Florida, and it’s getting as hard to get into Georgia (thanks to HOPE). Not to mention Florida has 14 points on them in the APT (hell, Ole Miss is higher).
by PeterPumpkinhead on Feb 13, 2007 4:32 PM EST reply actions
“Michigan is in the same boat as Texas… it’s competitive because of population. In reality it’s just as hard to get into Florida, and it’s getting as hard to get into Georgia (thanks to HOPE). Not to mention Florida has 14 points on them in the APT (hell, Ole Miss is higher).”
Again, not quite right about Michigan. (Although I admit I could be misreading exactly what you’re trying to say.)
Michigan is competitive not because of its own population (people like me) but because of all the prep school east-coasters who use it as a safety school in case they’re rejected from Haahvad or Yale or Brown. They kick the mean SAT’s through the roof, and keep the curve unforgiving in first- and second-year weeder classes.
Michigan is consistently regarded as one of the nation’s top 5 publics, with places like Berkeley, UCLA, UNC, UVA… argue amongst yourselves about who goes in what order.
But there are no SEC or Big 12 schools that qualify, as far as publics go. Florida is a good school and better than Ohio State, but, sorry, nowhere near as competitive as a Michigan or Virginia.
Same with Texas. Great school, very competitive. But not in the same class academically.
VAndy is top-notch, but it’s private.
Baylor is not a good school.
by Steve H on Feb 13, 2007 5:29 PM EST reply actions
I think that is overstating it a bit. Michigan and UVA and Cal are clearly better overall ranked public schools.. but to say Texas and Florida aren’t in the same class isn’t true at all. Those guys may be in the top 5-10, but the 13th ranked public university which has more National Merit Scholars is certainly in the same class.
by Stranko Montana on Feb 13, 2007 5:43 PM EST reply actions
Are you really using National Merit Scholars as a criteria for determining the quality of education at a college?
The National Merit Scholarships are hardly the best way to judge a student’s intelligence. Some high schoolers use the PSATs as a nice relaxing day at school to do next to nothing. Especially if they have previously taken the SATs in middle school, through a program like the Northwestern Talent Search.
Also, you guys need to really stop comparing Florida to Michigan in any sort of academic sense. It is pretty clear there is a large distinction between the two. Not that Florida isn’t a good school, but it simply isn’t in the same realm.
by Matt on Feb 13, 2007 5:57 PM EST reply actions
“Are you really using National Merit Scholars as a criteria for determining the quality of education at a college?”
Are you really using any standardized test scores to determine the quality of an education at a given school, Matt? How do the kid who sits next to me in HIS 3930’s SAT scores affect my education? Are you suggesting that at UF I was surrounded by dumb people, while at UM I’d be surrounded by geniuses?
I attended high school in suburban Detroit, earned better grades and test scores than some of my classmates who went to Michigan. I chose to go to Florida.
Frankly, I’m not sure how you determine which school is “better”. I guess we can determine which school is more selective, a crown I will presently give to Michigan. UF is quickly gaining on Michigan, though.
All those US News rankings don’t tell you anything except library square footage and the number of professors you will never talk to during undergrad.
So I guess I just wonder how you determined, Matt, that UF isn’t even in the same realm as Michigan, academically? Your opinion? Some BS rankings?
The only thing I can say is that I know UF grads who are doing better than Michigan grads, and vice versa. Alumni from both schools are leaders in business and politics in their local areas. Graduates of both school attend prestigious graduate and professional schools, and go on to do great things.
Fundamentally, the UF/UM academic comparison is not unlike the comparison between the two football programs: Michigan may have once dominated, but don’t be surprised when a former University of Utah employee helps UF leave Michigan in the dust.
by Joe on Feb 13, 2007 7:27 PM EST reply actions
Please let me know when these fucktards quit arguing about whether such and such school is in the same “realm” as such and such school. I’d prefer if the conversation swang back towards either football or shitting on dogs, preferably both – like shitting on UGA VI between the hedges. Put that slobbery mutt on a bag of ice in August and his ass ain’t moving even if you did just knock back four speedie with beans at Monterrey’s in a row before taking said shit.
by Out of Conference on Feb 13, 2007 8:23 PM EST reply actions
Though a few have touched upon it, I’m surprised there has not been a hue and cry over the racial implications of Delaney’s letter.
It’s not that far from Fisher DeBerry’s infamous comments, with the added bonus of implying stupidity. If he wasn’t from north of the Mason-Dixon, I’d suspect there was some subtle bigotry at work here.
Luckily, I read enough of the national media to understand that any bigots in that part of the country are detected, stripped of their shoes, and turned loose in the banjo playin, backwoods South.
by Chg on Feb 13, 2007 8:33 PM EST reply actions
Joe, if you had taken the time to read and think about what I wrote, you might have noticed that at the same time I was saying the number NMS recipients is a bad way to compare a college educatoin, I was also implying that a standardized test, such as the PSAT/SAT is a bad way to do it as well. I guess I’m not understanding how it is such a logical leap for you to infer that from my post, seeing as how the PSAT determines the NMS recipients, and that the PSAT and SAT are rather intertwined. While one isn’t always going to give you a correct prediction of a person’s score on the other, their are nominal similarities between the two.
US News & World Report: 5 Big Ten schools above Florida
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/t1natudoc_brief.php
Washington Monthly College Rankings: 5 Big Ten schools above Florida. Stranglely Ohio State replaces Northwestern as one of those five.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html
So here we have to review systems that take radically different approaches to ranking colleges, but both have not only Michigan, but almost half of the Big Ten beating Florida. Oh, on both of those lists, I believe Florida is the second ranked school in the SEC, behind Vandy in the US News and South Carolina in Washington Monthly.
Now, obvioulsy there are other ranking systems, but those are two of the biggest that represent different styles of ranking these schools. Also, they are both free to view on the internets. So, would you like to continue talking about this?
Oh, did Florida hire someone else from Utah to help in the academic world? Because I don’t see how Meyer is going to help in the classroom.
by Matt on Feb 13, 2007 8:52 PM EST reply actions
My PSAT score got me a full ride at Ohio State as an Ohio resident. I went to Michigan. Make of that what you will …
I actually just wanted to point out that the geographic argument Orson posited also rings true to me, though he left southeast Michigan off the list of Midwestern population centers. Seems to me most Big Ten schools have a couple kids from around Detroit on their roster. Michigan is a notch below Ohio and Pa. talent-wise, but the couple million residents living in and around Detroit does make for a nice talent node.
Also, Joe: Your metric of “doing better” rings pretty hollow to me, even though you presented it as a neutral factor. A successful education is not measured in income, status or even one’s position in the business or political communities, is it? I hope not. I also hope the kids who value those things above their education go to schools other than Michigan.
by Flop on Feb 13, 2007 9:26 PM EST reply actions
Oh, for fuck’s sake, Flop. I don’t know how one measures a successful education. Most people seem to do it through status, power, or income. Personally, my reason for attending college was first and foremost academic achievement, and the pride that came from being the first in my family to graduate from a university, not to mention the benefits which come from a well-rounded education. My potential earnings were secondary.
My point is simply this—I’m not sure how someone can say, without equivocation, that Michigan is far superior to Florida as an academic institution. However, many, if not most, college students seem to measure things like this partially on the level of income one can achieve after graduation. This is certainly true of Michigan students as well, Flop, because I know several of them and several of them talk quite frequently about how much money they expect to make once they’re done with their education and how happy they are about it. Their excitement, not mine.
Suffice it to say that what I gained from my Florida education extends far beyond any amount of money I could possibly earn in one lifetime, something which I am sure of your Michigan education. I will avoid throwing out “hollow metrics” if you Wolverines avoid throwing out personal opinion and conjecture as to your alleged academic superiority. Thanks.
by Joe on Feb 14, 2007 12:24 AM EST reply actions
Orson,
Remarkably well done. I didn’t know that SEC fans could break down a ridiculous argument like that. I stand corrected.
Sincerely,
Jim Delany
by Hawkeye State on Feb 14, 2007 9:51 AM EST reply actions
the big 10 pussies are just tired of us beating them in everything. the ohio st.-michigan game was dubbed “the real national championsip game”. well, in order to earn that, you have to be good at football….and it was obvious that mich and ohio st. as well as the rest of the big 10 are totally over matched. florida hammered ohio st. and showed the nation what kind of pussy ass football is played in the big 10. michigan got shredded by usc, who didn’t break a sweat in the rose bowl. i know penn st and wisconsin beat sec teams in there bowl games (after ark and tenn had no readon to get up for those games after getting there heart broke by not winning the sec), but if you line up the sec top to bottom with any other conference in america, the sec would win in every sport. football, baseball, basketball, track, whatever. the south has the best athletes, the hottest girls, the best weather, and the most common sense. sure, the south gets a bad wrap cause there are racists and illiterate people here, but those kind of people are everywhere. the north sucks, the west if full of queers, and the midwest has the ugliest chicks on the planet. the south is where it’s at….especially in college athletics.
the real final poll
1. florida
2. lsu
3. so. cal
4. auburn
5. west virginia
mich and ohio st. would barelly be top five.
can’t wait till next year, when we can whip your ass again
by lester on Feb 22, 2007 12:23 PM EST reply actions
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