ILLINI AD RON GUENTHER HAS HIS LETTER OF INTENT: A SUBPOENA.

What a perfect photo for that piece.

“And I’m Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC.”

Or maybe Iowa. Could it be Urban trying to get back at [name redacted] for stealing all the thunder from HIS national championship by having all the media give him credit for the recruiting the kids who played most? And also stealing what should have been his next 5* WR in Arrelious Benn?

Fuck Notre Ame. Lou Holtz anyone? If it was NA, it’s just another example of the Irish sense of entitlement. If it wasn’t NA, fuck ‘em anyway. I say let Zook do whatever he can to get recruits, legal or not. It’s Illinois for Christ’s sake.

Gee, I wonder where those fine “ouside lawyers” attended undergrad.

ND wouldn’t need to leak anything. Illinois’ own alums talk about Zook’s recruiting with a wink and a smile. It’s like they figure, “Hell, we don’t exactly have a tradition of winning. We’ll take while the gettin’s good, and then just take any eventual penalties the NCAA might throw our way AFTER the good times.”

So much for the Domers who were playing the “we recruit with class/we don’t steal other people’s commits” card. I was pretty much right.

When you’re doing an article on SLAP suits who you gonna call? Johnelle. Johnelle.

Next SLAP suit target. The site that calls[NAME REDACTED] [NAME REDACTED]. Any coaches hiding behind handles here?

Joe,

Seems like a fair assessment to say that Benn didn’t want to compete at a high level if he chose Illinois. It’s pretty much guaranteed early playing time with very little competition to force him into working hard to earn and keep a starting position. Not to mention the fact that [NAME REDACTED]’s got all the disciplinary stature of a marshmallow.

Alternatively, of course, one could argue that Benn wanted the opportunity to start for four years against tougher competition than Notre Dame plays (but for, say, three weeks a year). You say to-MAY-to . . . .

Regardless, Vaas comes off sounding like a schmuck, and the “who was” clause in the Post’s description is the pithiest complete takedown you’ll read about anyone all day. Perhaps the Orgeron will hire him.

Maybe so Domer, but after Trattou committed to Florida, I read all of these ND comments on this blog about how dirty Urban and the UF coaching staff was, how Weis would never keep recruiting someone else’s verbal, how Notre Dame would never resort to negative recruiting tactics. If these voice mails and text messages are the real deal, it seems that the Notre Dame staff DOES recruit other programs’ verbals, and they do engage in negative recruiting.

I said then I didn’t care if they did it, because I think anything is fair game, basically, but don’t hold up Notre Dame as some kind of innocent and pure program when they use the same tactics as everyone.

It’s kinda f’d up that Vaas-gina left that message. I mean, all I can do is relate recruiting to being something like Rush. You kiss their ass (as recruit), then they pledge and become your bitch (redshirt), and then they get a chance to be cool and get lots of ass as an uperclassman (starter! Woohoo!). Dirty rushing/recruiting is bogus. And I think it’s whack to sum up a young man and say some bullshit like “I guess you can’t compete at this level” when obviously it’s just sour grapes from a lou-tard whose fabled program lost a recruit to a mediocre program like illinillia

Yeah, that Big 10 is tough. Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, MSU, Minnesota, and Purdue? Thank god Michigan and OSU throw in a warm up or two before having to run that gauntlet! Phew!

The MSU that routinely beats ND, right?

Joe,

Given the fact that we took a linebacker from Iowa about 72 hours after Trattou left ND, I think the argument that ND doesn’t continue to recruit verbals is pretty stupid. And it would be pretty stupid of Weis in this day and age not to do so.

As for the “negative” recruiting, I hardly think that reminding Benn that he’s going to play for a perennial loser is negative recruiting relative to what’s often said by many programs about one another. Vaas probably thought Benn needed some tough love. Benn, unsurprisingly, shirked the tough love.

If by routinely you mean 2 times out of the past 5 years, sure.

I’ll be the first to say i was wrong, I guess Charlie does the negative thing. We’ve eaten crow more than once (see: Brian Smith). The question still remains: What website is he talking about?

I just hope he’s meaning something a little more than ND Blogs or edsbs. Cuz hell, i’ve spread all types of rumors about [name redacted] myself.

I think the thing we should all be concerned about is the impending return of Beelzebub in 2 years to claim the soul of for the 7 years of recruiting.

Or did he trade his ability to form a coherent thought on gameday for his recruiting ability.

“Given the fact that we took a linebacker from Iowa about 72 hours after Trattou left ND, I think the argument that ND doesn’t continue to recruit verbals is pretty stupid. And it would be pretty stupid of Weis in this day and age not to do so.”

Exactly, yet there were no less than 5 commenters that day complaining about Meyer’s tactics, and how coaches weren’t going to take kindly to such poaching, and that Weis would never stoop to such lows. At least some of you can face reality.

“As for the "negative" recruiting, I hardly think that reminding Benn that he’s going to play for a perennial loser is negative recruiting relative to what’s often said by many programs about one another. Vaas probably thought Benn needed some tough love. Benn, unsurprisingly, shirked the tough love.”

A couple thoughts:

1) there is an entry here from last February where it is mentioned that a Florida assistant coach said to then recruit Jim Barrie “you won’t see that at Notre Dame” while they walked past a scantily clad coed on the UF campus. Irish fans HOWLED that this was negative recruiting to the worst degree. Isn’t this also simply a statement of fact? I’d be happy to provide a link.
2) Saying that Vaas’ comments are “tough love” is the height of arrogance. The kid committed to Illinois, he didn’t drive drunk or abuse drugs. Say what you will about Illinois football, but no 18 year old needs to be belittled by some grown man about something as difficult as a college choice, just because said grown man thinks playing for Illinois isn’t very macho. This is why everyone hates your school and your self-righteous, holier than thou fanbase.

I can’t WAIT for you jagoffs to get pummeled AGAIN by Michigan, and I’m hoping MSU can go down to South Bend and continue their dominance there. And then I will heartily enjoy the annual BCS meltdown.

Joe: Odds are always with the house not the players. Which is why some ND posters on this site said from Day 1 they had no problem with Trattou committing. Most ND fans would still take Brown for Minter and Trattou in a heartbeat.

It’s just the sheer scale of Meyer’s re-commits that astounds. Miami and FSU and the NC have created the Gator$, east coast equivalents to U$C. Meyer will get you folks hated more than ND in no time at all.

5 straight in South Bend, Pat.

Canuck, I’m a-OK with people hating us because we win a lot. That’s how it was in the 90s and that’s how I want it to be. I’ll take that over people hating us because we keep losing BCS games we have no business being in, and because our fanbase keeps waving the “we’re classier and morally superior to everyone” flag until their arms fall off.

Joe,

I’m sure you can appreciate that every fan-base has its share of idiots.

On Point 1: It’s not a statement of fact. I saw lots of fun stuff at ND. Anyone who fails to do so should probably just give up on having much of a life.

On Point 2: It is a statement of fact that Illinois is non-competitive, even in a very top-heavy conference like the Big 10. Perhaps Vaas should have stated it in the form of a question: “Benn, are you trying to hide your head in the sand? Don’t you want to compete at a high level?” Would that be better for you Joe?

Joe, I sense your blood pressure is rising. Considering we’re having a faceless discussion on a blog, that’s not good, man.

Yes it is Joe. Not sure we’ll be able to provide a BCS meltdown next year as I’m not sure ND will be in the mix for one given the losses to graduation/NFL. You never know though.

Congrats on point out our recent failures against MSU, most of which occurred under the flawless leadership of Messrs Bob & Tyrone. And while we’re on the subject, may I point out to you that your Gators have not defeated Mississippi in over a decade?

domer.mg, you’re absolutely right about the idiots in every fan base, including in the teams I root for. However, those idiots usually are of the “OMG Quinn is gay!!~LOL/I will never root for Urbar Meyen because he’s not SOS” variety, not the blatant hypocrisy crew.

As far as the points, well, given the constant lake effect snow in January, you probably won’t see any bikini coeds at Notre Dame during winter, but either way, I see how pointing out the obvious “it’s warm here and we have hot chicks” is somehow a slam on Notre Dame. Can we agree here?

Re: point the second: My preference is that a coach not belittle a high school kid at all. Who knows his motivations for attending Illinois? IMO, it’s far greater challenge going to a school like Illinois and building a winning tradition, than it is stepping into a consistent winner like Notre Dame and just becoming another cog in the machine. Kids have all kinds of motivations. Maybe he just finds the Illinois staff to be more personable and less arrogant, and would rather play for them. Hard to argue, considering what ND assistants think is a good recruiting tactic. There are lots of ways to go about saying “Illinois sucks” that don’t question a teenager’s manhood.

It seems to me that Illinois and Notre Dame are playing pretty similar schedules, meaning that the level of competition Benn will face is comparable at either school. The difference will be what he is asked to do as an individual.

Anyways, my blood pressure is just fine, guys. I’m always at this level when I talk football. ;)

Nope, ‘point 1’ is demonstrably false. Women in the SEC have a higher-than average incidence of optimal bust size, waist-to-hip ratios, hard bodies, flat stomachs, and beautiful faces. Also, because of warmer climes, they tend to wear less (Daisey Duke, how are you?) . Notre Dame has alot of things going for it, but in the female department I’d have to role w/ any SEC school.

Also of note for women: TEXAS (Austin really is unbelievable), USC, and Domer’s Mom’s House

Differences being Rusty that a) we don’t play Ole Miss every year and b) Ole Miss isn’t a rivalry game, complete with trophy and bragging rights.

Joe, Any program from FL, TX, or CA dominating the local boards is going to get more than the usual amount of hate when they fill 1/4 of there spots with re-commits.

Urbie is being too clever by half. Each guy who recommits is his own case and it’s his own call, but how many Mitches will be in that looker room when you do wholesale recommits like that?

If Meyer’s smart this is a one time cash in on the up market thing and he’ll fill his locker room more sensibly next time. Never thought I’d every agree with Bowden on anything, but he’s probably right about how to maximize being on the tops of the FL, TX, or CA heaps.

Joe,

ND didn’t even know that the MSU game was a “rivalry” game until they got pissed because we didn’t know that A) there was a trophy or B) where we put it last.

MSU is sort of the BC of the Midwest – just dying to be a ND rival.

Whatever you say, domer. Seems like I know an awful lot of Notre Dame students and alumni who are getting sick and tired of guys like Bobby Williams and [NAME ALSO REDACTED] coming in and ruining Irish home games. This is not unlike UGA fans telling me that Georgia Tech is their main rival.

Of course, we could also review ND’s recent records against Michigan and USC. I guess you’ll tell me that everyone knows Notre Dame’s REAL rival is Navy.

Canuck—sure, Urb’s ruffling a few feathers. Again, I don’t mind that people are going to hate us because we are stealing their cheese (thanks Tony Joiner) and otherwise dominating the recruiting landscape. I hate programs like that too, when they aren’t orange and blue. And who knows, Urban might have a lot of Mustains on his hands (that sounds really weird), but I give Urban a lot more credit than Houston Nutt. We’ll see if it backfires on him.

My point is simply this: I don’t complain about other team’s recruiting tactics because it would be silly and hypocritical. It is silly and hypocritical for Notre Dame fans to complain about Urban’s recruiting tactics when Charlie does the same. That’s all I’m saying.

Joe,

Easy refresher:

Michigan = Hated Enemy to the North
USC = One True Rival

Everyone else is just everyone else.

Joe and domer.mq,

I would argue that MSU is a bigger rivalry than Michigan. ND-Michigan isn’t even a permanent game yet from either side. If it became permanent it probably would become the #2 rivalry after the USC game.

The loss of Johnelle is a great thing for the ND-MSU as MSU should improve outside the rivalry game and the flag
thing should go away.

The Navy game is more of a rivalry around will the streak be broken, but it will always be a big deal even if they always won it.

as far as ill and nd playing similar schedules, http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt05.htm.

take either the elo-chess or predictor rankings and tell me how they are “similar”.

I always thought that ND would fall from the recruiting pedestal it once stood on. I am actually shocked it took this long.

I think it all started with Jerry Faust and being a high school coach. He was a hell of a recruiter in high school. He got players to come in from all over the country to play football in Cincinnati. Then when ND realized that they had hired a high school coach that brought his entire coaching staff from high school with him it all went down hill.

Then Lou came to the school and tried his best to get “kids the school can take a chance on” to be admitted. Won a national championship, then got blindsided by a new head of admissions that wouldn’t give him the “chance kid”. Lou goes to South Carolina.

Bob Davie shows up and basically takes up space for a couple of years.

Ty comes and plays golf and relies on athletes to come to him. He thinks being African American and being the coach of a team on National Television is good enough.

Chaz comes in and has to catch up for 15 years of shit recruiting. During that time recruiting in this country has turned into something much different than it was 15 years ago.

I am obviously an ND fan, but everyone needs to realize what has transpired at that school since the 1970’s. It is not the program it was before and now Chazz and staff need to recruit just like everyone else. They can’t rely on the ND factor and National Television anymore. They also can’t act high and mighty anymore either. 41-14 against LSU. That’s all I’m saying.

Sorry for the book

Joe, ND fans are just as free as other fans and as free as Orson to sneer at Urbie’s wholesale recommittment program. When you’re at the top of the pile in FL, TX, or CA and can cherry pick like that why would you want 25% of your class to be on average that changeable?

Nemesis= the resentment caused by any disturbance of right proportion, the sense of justice which can not allow it to pass unpunished.

(didn’t mean to say Orson is actually sneering, but he is free to at least raise the odd eyebrow)

ND is verbally harassing high school athletes??? Is this what Catholics do once kids are old enough to know what a “bad touch” is?

Make ’em feel special, then you beat them down… Just like women.

Oh that anti-Catholic bigotry is hilarious! I’m sure you’ll appreciate this joke I just heard about illiterate West Virginians enjoying moonshine and incest.

Which one?

prolly not the moonshine.

The fact is Vaas got fired because he was a terrible recruiter. This is just an example. Even with decommits and a light defensive haul, the Irish will be fine in 3-4 years. It’s called rebuilding after the last guy spent signing day working on his short game.

If Illinois actually follows through and sues, [NAME REDACTED] would be subject to depositions over his recruiting practices/tactics. That doesn’t strike me as the wisest use of UI funds.

i blame this on Tyrone Willingham, its totally his fault

Wow, any affection I had for CBG just evaporated.

Come on, babe, the catholic jokes are far too easy. Just like it’d be too easy for us to make gap-toothed hillbilly jokes. So we’ll stick with the high-brow, maybe like something along the lines of “I’m sure you guys are keeping nice and warm during this cold-snap, what with those coal-fires a-burnin’ and all.”

sighs – hangs head

Wooderson is right… Just because I hate Notre Dame – and I do – I shouldn’t dabble in stereotypical jokes. What right do I have to be all “people from WV aren’t backwoods, inbred hillbillies despite the video evidence of Jesco White,” if I’m going to jump at the first opportunity. While easy and slightly amusing, they are unnecessary.

Please accept my heartfelt apologies and my pledge to do better.

And Wooderson, it’s the couch fires we have burning… the correct answer is couch….

Talk of other teams’ dirty recruiting practices on a Florida blog! Precious!

Also, there’s a hysterical meltdown going on in Morgantown right now concerning Deion Sanders telling Noel Devine not to sign with WVU. As if the kid was going to qualify, anyway. That’s like me getting upset about the Easter Bunny not showing up at my house.

I love that WVU is enthusiastically taking kids that Florida Fucking State thinks are too risky.

Sorry CBG, my bad.

The coal fires are in PA.

You may return to burning your lazy-boys.

“Once Benn orally committed to Illinois…” Heh.

Let’s Let Bygones be Bygones Dept:

The CBGirl made a mistake, apologized and I think it is time to let it go, instead of piling on. We all make mistakes, especially in the heat of passion. And, if you do not believe me, remember some of the ladies YOU ended up with on certain Saturday nights in college….enough said….

Since I am in such a good mood about my team – USC – getting Joe McNight, the top ranked player in the land, according to some rankers/wankers, and others today, I will not pile on either regarding ND’s duplicitous recruiting tactics of going after other team’s committed players while blasting Florida’s similar tactics on the Tatoo or Baboo or whatever his name was matter.

Let Bygones be bygones….

RUTS: In our own defense, we passed on Randy Moss.

Wooderson: Friends?

SKLM: Last Friday, now today??? Do you want to be my valentine?

Moving on: I heard about this Deion Sanders/Noel Devine thing yesterday. Coupled with something about Deion wanting to get back into coaching. No, really.

http://www.wemustignitethiscouch.com/modules/weblog/details.php?blog_id=201

Put whatever stock you want to in this opinion piece. Me, I say none.

Of course CBG. I thougth you took pride in lighting up the lazy-boys there in morgantown, I wasn’t giving you crap.

Wooderson — That would be Centralia, Pennsylvania. Quite a town, if you’re into hazardous gases and crumpled roads. Oh, and old people who just refuse to be relocated because, well, they’re stubborn old people.

Supposedly, Broderick Green’s announcement is delayed because at noon, he needed to go home and change clothes. Hopefully, McKnight’s USC committment scared him away and he’ll be at Penn State next year.

Is that the place that “Fire Down Below” was based on? Steven Segal direct-to-video flicks rule.

Not sure what it was based on, only that the movie was supposedly set in Kentucky.

…and Broderick Green’s off to USC. Good luck trying to convince Pete Carroll to run a six RB formation, Chachi.

How exactly can a school be a “football Hades” when their all-time winning percentage is well over .500, they’ve won 4 national titles and 21 conference titles?

We’re talking about a school that’s in prime position to land recruits from two metro areas with coaches who have significant ties to Florida and D.C. Not surprisingly, that’s where their recruits are coming from.

Illinois is more like a “sleeping giant” that hasn’t had a coach who took recruiting seriously since John Mackovic.

SKLM, you are still quite the caker, aren’t you?

You know I love you Orson, but Florida’s nasty streak of recruiting has put our 3-time recruiting title in real question this year. I’m going to be really frustrated if Florida takes the MNC (I know we have ourselves to blame for that one) and the recruiting title in the same year.

Oh and tOSU fans, don’t even bother commenting about how you would have beaten us. USC would have LOVED to play you guys.

Thanks a lot Dept:

CBGirl: Thank you very much for the nice offer, but , I am already taken by another babe. I really enjoy you beating up on some of the bozos on this site, in such a funny manner. Keep up the great work!

SKLM Responds – Comment No. 57 Dept:

RIP Logan: Regarding your negative comments to me, I am assuming that you are either a female that never gets any positive attention, or a Notre Dame fan. Do not be jealous.

I just call it as I see it…if there is great commentary, I give due respect. And, if there is mypia running wild, I will also throw in my sobering thoughts.

On this great signing day, let’s bury the hatchet! (Tomorrow will be another matter.)

Oh and by the way, I’m not saying USC would have beat Florida for the MNC, just that we should have been in the MNC game.

After that game, I am convinced of SEC SPEED.

Hot off the presses of the ESPN recruiting chat…

Andy (Chicago): Martez, welcome to the Illini. Did any school(s) try to get you to switch at the last minute? If so, what did you tell them?

 Martez Wilson: (3:40 PM ET ) Oh yeah. Notre Dame.

THOSE BASTARDS!!!

…and Broderick Green’s off to USC. Good luck trying to convince Pete Carroll to run a six RB formation, Chachi.

He’s obviously got enough brains to not risk them for JoePa’s afternoon snack.

As for next year, it’s not so much going to be Student Body Right as Napoleonic column of running backs up the gut. Which will be fine until UCLA masters rapid fire musketry. Then Pete Carroll will be exiled to Catalina, with only his golden unicycle for solace.

Of course I’m not being serious — UCLA would try to use the library squad’s tazers; it’s Wazzoo that would master the musketry.

CBD,

 When Noel Devine temporarily moved to Texas to live in Prosper with Deion, he attempted to gain admission to my HS, and was summarily denied. Even if he does sign with WVU, I seriously doubt you’ll ever see him on the field due to academics.
 Add in the fact that this kid was an 18 yr old sophomore with one kid and another on the way at that point, and I don’t understand why any school would recruit him. He isn’t THAT special.

SKLM,
Judging by the name Logan Young, he’s probably from Bama.

Logan,
I learned a new word: “caker”. Thanks to you and Urban Dictionary.

CBG,
When Stacey Kiebler loves him, you don’t have much of a shot. You’re gonna have to set the bar a little below stratospheric SKLM levels.

SKLM,

Rock on.

6. caker
        
a guy who incessantly cheeses on girls, showering them with attention, compliments and, in extreme cases, gifts. Most cakers are guys who could not hook up without engaging in said activities, and even then it’s somewhat of a struggle.

Additionally, cakers tend not to be particularly discriminatory in the looks department (i.e., their caking is not exclusive to attractive females).

Also note that many cakers believe that they are studs, but they’re really just every girl’s platonic friend because he kisses their asses.

“Damn, did you see Nick at that party tonight? He told like every girl there she was pretty. What a caker!”

The suspicious thing is that it WASN’T ND that originally started rumbling about Illinois’ recruiting tactics. A Board Op on a major Michigan Wolverine blog essentially outlined the entire NY Times story 2 months ago and stated that the UM athletic department was one of three Big10 schools to send letters of complaint to Delaney about Illinois tactics. He also said UM had compiled evidence on Illinois. and he closed with “there’s a major east coast daily doing an investigation into Illinois.” Ta-da…enter the NY Times two months later.

I suspect the reason why Illinois is blaming ND is that they have to live inside the Big10 with Michigan (and tOSU, who was most likely the other Big 10 culprit to write a letter of complaint) and it wouldn’t be wise to finger them publicly. (heh)

i loved the asst. coach’s voicemails bout “not being able to handle Big Time football”……..i suspect Benn took a gander at that Irish schedule and though perhaps playing 4 service academies every year would be a bit draining….word on Campus is they’re trying to pick up a home & home with the Coast Guard Academy in ’08 and ’09……..GO IRISH…..STAY WEAK….and continue to rue the day that UCLA fugged up your Bowl plans and you truly got a little sneek peek at BIGTIME Football…..ND in High Definition Invisibilty on NBC

Vass was let go for just this type of behavior, which says quite a bit about how the head coach responds to these matters.

“How exactly can a school be a "football Hades" when their all-time winning percentage is well over .500, they’ve won 4 national titles and 21 conference titles?”

ESPNBS is right. Illinois has a winning tradition, not recently, but the potential’s there. George Halas, Red Grange… ring a bell? The Chicago Bears wear Illini colors because of Halas. The Bears even played in Memorial Stadium a few seasons ago when Soldier Field was being worked on. Illinois was a good team a few years back, as recently as 2002. Illinois has pro-level facilities, spends a lot of money on athletics, and is one of the best academic universities in the world (ranked #25 in the world ranking, higher than Northwestern despite what their assistant coach says in the NY Times article), two hours away from one of the largest cities in the world. With more than 500,000 living alumni, Illinois has one of the largest built-in, loyal fanbases. And John L. what’shisname is going to say that Illinois has nothing to sell?

And, well, I think the girls of Champaign can take on the SEC girls any day. U of I has the largest Greek system in the country— yep, that means we have the most sorority girls of any college. Just for that, we should have athletic recruits banging on our door. :)