ROSE BOWL WRAPUP: WINDSHIELD, BUG. MICHIGAN'S BEEN BOTH.

Fiesta Bowl? You sure about that?

No, and it’s corrected. Thanks.

Michigan has a weakness on both sides of the ball. On offense it is the right tackle and right guard particularly their pass blocking. On defense it is the second CB (Trent) and too often atrocious safety play (Adams and Barringer both are decent at best, while 5-star recruit Ryan Mundy has still not overcome his tendency to take lousy angles in run support and cannot cover). There are few teams that are capable of exposing these weaknesses since Michigan is solid to excellent in the other positions. Both OSU and USC are amongst those teams.

Would a better coaching staff have gone to the shotgun? Probably, but UM spent all year working on its running game in the belief that it would eventually wear down an opponent. The running game went from 9th in the Big Ten to 1st; therefore it is difficult to see how UM was going to abandon it in was was still a tight ballgame.

On D, perhaps UM could have blitzed more, but Trent on Jarret one on one doesn’t seem like a great strategy.

Whatever the cause, it was a truly dismal Michigan performance. The silver lining is that it will cure any irrational exuberance about UM’s national title hopes next year.

“was was” should be “what was”

fight on!!!

…and, really, more than anything, doesn’t the rose bowl just show how bad notre dame really was/is this year?

From a readability standpoint, I think it’d be better if the culpability-bullets were italicized instead of bold, to differentiate them from the cause bullets.

Once LLLLLoyd gets back on track the losses just accelerate. The worst thing is beating them in September. Ya just know they’ll do 5 losses and the Vapona Pest Strip Bowl.

U$C reloaded damned fast. tOSU owes UCLA big time.

Michigan has had one 5-loss season and one 6-loss season since 1968.

#6.Fat lady ain’t sung yet. Any outcome between 2 teams that thumped ya can be spun any which way.

First time I ever rooted for U$C, but when you have to pick between 2 long running rivals I’m hardly going to root for the one that whines about having us on their schedule. Besides USC at #2 puts a little more shine on that Quinn comeback over UCLA.

Is this a gym or some kind of fitness museum?

Masked, I still haven’t gotten over what Michigan and Tennessee did to our quality wins last year. You are correct that it was not a typical year.

(what was last year i.e. 2005)

Sounds about right. The thing is, I wasn’t too depressed about this loss since losing the Rose Bowl is a Michigan tradition, and tradition is good, right? It hurt a lot more when we lost to tOSU, even though I still think someone needs to drop-kick Pete “Humanitarian” Caroll’s smug visage. Ah well, time to hibernate until next season.

Apparently Mark May has taken control of the ESPN College Football page. This poll question is posted:
If Florida beats Ohio State, who deserves to be national champions?
Florida leads with 55%, Boise is second with 37%, and two-loss Southern Cal rounds out the list with 8% of the vote. I understand listing Boise as a choice, but Southern Cal is ridiculous.

http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncf/index

Question for Domers Dept:

Domies: Who is your bigger rival ->USC or Michigan?

(FYI: For USC fans, the bigger rival between Notre Dame and ucla, usually depends on age of USC fan. For younger USC fans, the bigger rival is ucla. For most middle-aged to crotchety old geezer fans, the bigger rival is Notre Dame.)

Leave the Humanitarian Alone Dept:

Dave: Instead of tryng to drop kick our favorite humanitarian, why don’t you try drop-kicking YOUR hound dog of a coach? He cannot beat the thugs of tOSU, nor a decent bowl game. He is a nice man, a throwback from Bo’s days, but, if I were a Michigan fan, I would try to get the Boise State coach NOW, before it is too late, and send the hound dog to the rocking chair.

#15,

I think USC is considered a “rival,” while Michigan is more of a “pile of festering poo.”

SKLM, well of course that will never happen. I’m generally happy with Lloyd, but yeah, losing these big games all the time is slowly sapping my will to live.

SKLM:

In reply to your ND question I believe U$C is the ND’s biggest rival, whereas Michigan is ND’s biggest enemy.

As someone once said: “you cheer for a rival to win all of their games, until you beat them (dashing their hopes), as opposed to wanting your enemy to lose ALL of their games”

matthew -

if by showing that nd lost on the road to usc by 20 and michigan lost to the same team at a neutral sight by 14, i guess you’re right and notre dame really is that “bad”.

#15

answer: USC

for my generation, usc was a school that didnt beat you for 13 straight years. thats not much of a rival. but at least it was a national school that expected to be great and would play you every year.

for current domers, i would think the inverse logic applies. we think they’re a rival, but they probably think we’re a goof.

UM doesnt factor in there anywhere. they are nearby, ND plays them most of the time, and they are almost always better than MSU and Purdue and consequently get a little more hatred.

sklm, It depends on what big means.

Playing USC is a tradition. It’s the series you want to play forever. The older demographic remembers what ND has to teach the younger ones on the field.

Not losing to Michigan is a necessity. We want to play them as long as they want to schedule us and it’s usually the 2nd toughest game on the schedule.

In some ways MSU and ND have a bigger rivalry than scUM and ND. That’s part of Bo’s legacy.

SKLM:

I say this from the viewpoint of a younger Trojan fan (class of ‘04)… When asked about USC’s rivalries, I counter with the question, “how do you define ‘rival?’”

If your rival is the team you despise, who’s colors make you ill, who you root for to go 0-12 each year, and then say screw conference loyalty and root against them in their bowl game, who you are unable to muster the slightest iota of respect for, even when they beat you in the final game to keep you from the title game… then our rival is UCLA.

However, if your rival is the team you look forward to meeting more then any other each year, the team you root for to be undefeated when you meet, because thats how it is supposed to be, the team that has the history, and the players with the class to demand your respect, such that you stand and applaud them after the game no matter what the outcome… then our rival is Notre Dame.

Personally, I consider USC’s rival to be Notre Dame. I’m sure they have similar feelings towards us and Michigan, in some shape or form.

orson-
this post was as hilarious as it was painful.

Screechy Domie in LA Sports Scene:

In Los Angeles, there is a new sports talk radio show, called: “Roggin and Simers Squared”. Roggin is a bland TV sports announcer and TJ Simers is the best LA Times sports columnist, a noted needler and abuser in the local sports scene. His daughter Tracy Simers is the third person in that motely crew and she is a Notre Dame (accounting) grad. Her main contributions are screeching “oh my gosh!” and acting like a teenager on the show, even though she is 30 or so. One of her comments was that Notre Dame students see Michigan as the main game of the season and not USC. I was just curious to see if she was right. Thanks for the responses.

Domers view USC as a rival. UofM is that team you want to beat, and then set fire to the team bus after the game. I’m from Michigan, and have never been a UofM fan, so I take particular glee in the pantsing that USC gave them.

re: 25

The problem with the USC rivalry is that half the games are played on thanksgiving weekend, when 90% of the student body is hours away from campus and unable to get together to watch the game with friends.

On the other hand, UofM is always early in the season – usually ND’s first big test regardless of where it’s played.

sklm: Accounting grad is perilously close to the parquet floor crowd. for folks that count things other than wins and losses USC, Navy, Purdue, and MSU are the teams that ND MUST play every year. Michigan is first amongst the teams that we SHOULD play every year.

fighton: you’re on track. If usc were independant and ucla had been trying for years to get cal and oregon to drop you, before adding you themselves, you’d know how ND sees Michigan. They’re welcome on our schedule, but rivalries are full time.

1. I don’t think a losing streak invalidates a rivalry.

I like the rival/enemy description of things. For USC, the domers are the rival worthy of respect and UCLA is the enemy. And the UCLA fans are picking up quite a bad reputation as far as being low class win or lose after this year. I was at a party yesterday during the Rose Bowl and a recent UCLA grad was there. It was sad how bitter she got during her time at the school.

oh and I beg to differ with SKLM, TJ Siemers blows great blue putty balls. I was disappointed to see that his column still runs in the LA Times. When I heard he was on the radio I hoped he’d be gone from the paper. His “shock jock” mentality is better suited for AM radio and it would be nice to have a column to read on page 2 instead of something to automatically skip over.

Not playing some years definitely invalidates a rivalry. Respect is definitely part of a rivalry. Domer’s were glad to see [NAME ALSO REDACTED] leave after the flag antics. The rivalry with MSU deserved better than Johnelle. For the records scUM would be crazy to replace Llllllloyd.

vs. final AP top 10 (2006 pending)
Carr 10-12-0
Crisler 6-13-0
Schembechler 7-27-1

So Cannuck, what is Charlie Weis record against the top 10 (or top 25)?

Charlie Weis vs ranked opponents:

vs a top 10 ranked opp
1-3

vs a top 25 ranked opp
4-4

oc phil, 10-12 is good. Lloyd will slip behind Ara in winning percentage vs. the top 10, but not only a handful of coaches have even been .500 vs. the top 10 after 10 years. Switzer and Leahy’s records are very impressive. Why don’t Michigan fans realize Lllllloyd’s the best Michigan coach? Weis is starting well off .500 with a little help from Michigan and Tennessee.

tbone, So far weis only has one official game against a AP top 25 finisher (i.e. USC) due to Tennessee and Michigan both missing the top 25 his first year.

Assuming Georgia Tech misses the top 25 after the loss to WVU, he’ll end this year with his 4th top 10 opponent and none from 11-25. Beating LSU would at least bring him up into Bo territory at 1-3 vs. final top 10.

Canuck: Charlie has lost to USC twice, so he’s currently at 0-4, with losses to USC, OSU, Mich, and USC again. So he’d have to beat LSU to climb to 1-4, though I expect him to be 0-5 after the Sugar Bowl.

I agree that Lloyd C is a good coach for MI. In general fans are way too quick jump on the ebay and the rest of the internets with criticism if coaches,

And tbone, early season rankings mean nothing, you have to look at where teams finish up.

If I were a Michigan fan, I would be demanding Carr’s head. SC basically used the same blitz package that destroyed Navarre in the 2004 Rose Bowl. There was no adjustment even with the refs letting their OLine hold on every play.

What infuriated me most was the white flag with 5:30 left. I realize there was litlle chance to win, but I remember the Colts pulling out just as unlikely a victory over the Bucs on a Monday night three years ago. So maybe you blow the 4th and 10 and lose 39-18. Or maybe Breaston or Manningham gets a 40 yard reception. It’s unconscionable to tell your seniors that you don’t believe in them when there’s that much time left in the game.

If Lloyd Carr were the Boise State coach, the Broncos would’ve lost 35-28. Pathetic.

My last comment didn’t really convey it, but yes, I’m really happy USC won. That was an awesome lead-in to next year.

The LA Times’ TJ Simers Dept:

OC Phil, RE: Commnent No. 30, Here are a few reasons I think he is a great columnist:

1) “Shock Jock Angle”: I like that the sacred cows of local sports get barbed and poked, such as the Lakers’ Jackson, Kobe and others. It is great that someone calls them on their chokes.

2) Crow Eater: I have thoroughly enjoyed his eating crow for the past five years or so, after hounding Pete Carroll when he first started at USC.

3) Boss Abuser: His constant digs at his boss (BIll Dwyer) were funnny, not to mention his son-in-law.

4) Reactions: I totally enjoy the reactions of readers that take him seriously. They love to hate him.

5) Jim Murray: He is the closest LA Times writer that reminds me a bit of Jim Murray, my all-time favorite sports writer when I first started reading the sports pages when I was in single digits age.

canuck/oc phil

think about it.

i assure you, the whole “record of X vs top-ranked teams” as is commonly discussed is measured vs the ranking AT THE TIME the game was played, not the end of season. otherwise, the data is going to be skewed downward simply by the results of the game in question. if you lose, you are more likely to have lost to a top10 team and if you win you are less likely to have beaten a top10 team.

I am kicking myself, for being so depressed by Michigan’s showing at the Rose Bowl that I actually turned off the DirecTV last night and missed the Boise circus.

I’m not calling for Llllloyd’s head. Yet. But it’s pretty clear that the coaching staff checked out of the game in the first half. The lack of anything approaching an offensive adjustment blew out my blood pressure, then put me to sleep faster than a turkey dinner.

The team’s conditioning is an issue, I was seeing that in the first five minutes. I remember when Michigan built its indoor facility, and I’d love to know why all that booster money seems to have bypassed the little detail of weight machines and conditioning specialists. I’m not sure why our boys looked slower and more sluggish than usual, but I hope that someone in A2 wasn’t running them ragged over the layoff.

Why do I care? Because I was a Michigan fan from the age of six.

“And tbone, early season rankings mean nothing, you have to look at where teams finish up.”

I disagree. There are such things as in-season momentum, injuries and so forth that change how good a team is at any given point.

SKLM,
Hail to those motherfuckers
Hail to those big cocksuckers
Hail, hail, to Michigan the Assholes of the world

Hail to those pornigators
Hail to those masturbators
Hail, hail to Michigan the assholes of the world.

Does that answer your question?
Ah, nevermind. I hate SC way more than Michigan.

Classy, J.J.

Continuing with the ND/USC/UMich threadjack, a few comments:

1) Winning/losing streaks don’t detract from rivalries. USC dominated under OJ, Marcus Allen, etc, and then ND dominated from Faust thru Holtz, and now USC is back on the upswing again.

2) The USC/ND vs USC/UCLA analogy works just the same for USC/ND vs Mich/ND.

3) From personal experience, those USC fans that travel to ND are much classier and respectful of the history of the series than those Michigan fans who come to ND for their game.

By the way, how did I miss the carpet skates craze? When did those hit the market? Do they come in radioactive Nerf orange or green?

Geez… 46 posts and no one mentioned that the Fireworks Factory Explosion video was the greatest fireworks show ever recorded in the entire universe… you would have to have B-52s with phospor bombs drop in your neighborhood to get a bigger or better boom

I like that it goes BOOM. Then BOOOOOOM. Then the firefighters hit the magnesium/silver nitrate mix with water, and then the camera stops working.

you would have to have B-52s with phospor bombs drop in your neighborhood to get a bigger or better boom

Oh I don’t know, the Germans did a pretty comprehensive job on Rotterdam, bombing it old school in 1940…

(This is what usually prompts my wife to run screaming from the room, “Don’t get him started on the Germans!”)

DC Trojan,

Is “Two World Wars and one World Cup, doo-dah, doo-dah” a chant from your past?

SKLM and oc phil,

I think Simers is a mixed bag. I appreciate his willingness to take on sacred cows, but I also feel he is often a formulaic hypocrite, a one note joke repeated over and over in smug fashion.

Simers’ best piece of work was an article on Pat Tillman after he was killed. A very thoughtful article with an interesting angle. I don’t understand why he doesn’t produce more work like it.

Is "Two World Wars and one World Cup, doo-dah, doo-dah" a chant from your past?

Funny, but no; being Scottish, I’ve as much chance of celebrating a World Cup win by Scotland as I have of a week’s debauchery with the Song Girls and Texas Pom Squad.

Actually, Scotland has a better chance of winning the World Cup.

But when Germany reunified in 1990, some people said hurrah for freedom; in my house it was more a case of “how long until the bastards try it again?”

DC Trojan,

My guess is about 20 more years. As soon as those who remember the stigma of the holocast(SP?) are out of power.

SKLM: We can just agree to disagree on TJS. I thought SeaTrojan summed him up well as “A one-note joke repeated over and over in smug fashion”.

tbone: sure beating a team lowers thier rankings. But Charlie hasn’t beaten anybody in the top 25 yet, so it isn’t like the loses of Georgia Tech, or Tenn and Michigan last year knocked them out of the top 10. Charlie has gotten a ton of hype out of beating a bunch of weak to mediocre teams and having one close loss to an elite team (as well as 3 other thumpings and a loss to MS freaking U).

Hanging your hat on early season games to teams that proved to be way over rated is sad. Michigan and Tenn had down years last year. Maybe PSU will sneak into the final top 25 this year though and Charlie will end the year with a decent (but no really good) victories on his resume (unless he pulls off an upset in the Sugar Bowl, of course).

PAK: The USC-ND is played on Thanksgiving weekend to make it an easier trip out for the ND fans who want to go to LA. I was told that was the “senior class trip” for the domers every other year.

SeaTrojan: I’ve spent some time in Germany. I found the younger generation to contain lots of cool people. I’d expect somebody else to be the bad guys in 20 years.

I’d expect somebody else to be the bad guys in 20 years.

The French!

Threadjack continues:

i’m just stating the facts. Weis’s record vs ranked teams was mentioned in the context of the discussion about Lloyd’s record. A record that, I assure you, is measured as per the opponents record at the time of the game. Hence, my answer.

Your delving into the ESPNesque realm of “quality wins” which is completely subjective and a moving target.

If ND had beaten USC or Michigan or pulls one out and beats LSU…by the end of the year they still wouldn’t have beaten any top10 teams. Unless you’re dealing with atoms, its stupid to have a statistical criteria where the very measurement affects the data. But whatever, thats the phd speaking.

I’m not hanging my hat on shit. I don’t think any rational ND fan is happy with how the Irish have played in big games since the Fiesta Bowl. But you’re just showing your panties if you think that Weis isn’t making a huge directional upgrade in what was a completely floundering program. And yeah, that makes most ND people happier. Not delusional, but happier.

Germans are way too lazy now to take over the world. Bet Chinese.

DC Trojan,

That reminds me, I have to pick up some “freedom fries” when I go to that great Scottish hamburger joint, McDonald’s.

oc phil, I’ve spent some time in Germany and I don’t remember them treating me like I was family at an Olive Garden in Huntington Beach. But, most of the Germans I’ve met travelling have been cool and interesting people. I didn’t mean to give off the impression I was bashing them in my previous post. I guess it’s just unintentionally easy to do so. Maybe I’m just good at bashing and offending people. I’ll test this theory out on the Domers at the bar tonight.

On the subject of rivals from another Trojan’s perspective:

1. My ND friends probably enjoy beating Michigan more because there are more of them in their neighborhood; the same goes for USC as it relates to UCLA.
2. ND and USC play EVERY year and all Trojans eventually grow up to realize ND is a much bigger rival even if we hate losing to the fbruins more than the Irish. Historically, we expect to beat UCLA and hope to beat ND.
3. Whether USC wins or loses, my ND friends are stand up guys. When the bruins lose, they are like cockroaches when the light comes on……skittering for the cracks. But when they win……..ugh…..they just don’t know when to shut up (…and it’s going to be a long year until order is restored in 2007).
4. I think ND and Michigan have only played around 30 times and it has not been continuous. SC and ND now have more than 75 games in the series. No contest.

Fight On!

Tbone: The discussion regarding Carr’s record was clearly stated as being in terms of final rankings (and the record was brought up by a ND fan) . Check back to #31.

I wonder how the domers would be feeling had MSU and UCLA not choked away those games? But in that case ND might have gone to a more appropriate bowl and had a chance to end the losing streak.

I’m all for ND having an elite team again. I just think it would be nice if they showed it on the field before they get credit for it. So far they kick ass when competing for the CIC trophy and get crushed when they play with the big boys. And the big boys are not a single loss away from being knocked all the way out of the top 25.

Sea Trojan: Maybe it helped that I was playing soccer over there and some of those teams would have kegs in the clubhouse after games. Seeing a pair of twins up on the tables lip synching “Sympathy for the Devil” into beer bottles was more fun that I’ve ever had in an Olive Garden.

PCB: Yeah, the real life ND fans are way classier than the UCLA people for the most part. The older UCLA alums tend to be OK but many of the younger ones have been so twisted by jealousy over the last few years that there isn’t much hope for them.