LAWYERS, PART ONE: IS THE NCAA TAXABLE?

More importantly, who can better defend the NCAA:

Lionel Hutz, AKA Miguel Sánchez, AKA Dr. Nguyen Van Falk or Futurama’s Southern Chicken Lawyer?

If we can frame the issue concicely, I will walk around the hallways of Levin ambushing our famous Tax Law faculty in their offices for their opinions.

speaking of kicking george will’s ass, my 12th grade english professor went to college with him, and swears that he and his friends used to pick on him so much that he started walking around campus to get to a class, rather than through it. don’t know if it’s true, but i can only hope.

I’ll leave the legal discussion to the lawyers, but I must point out, every time this topic comes up, the examples supporting taxation are what the UNIVERSITIES are doing with the money, not the NCAA. These are separate entities, and I suspect the NCAA would pass any examination easily, as all of its money is funnelled to Universities and towards other academic/amateur sports stuff (pure speculation of course).

Except for Myles Brand’s 755K salary and benefits package.

Miles Brand sprinkles his cereal with diamonds to make his dookie twinkle. Thats definitele excluded under the Tax Code.

Rob, after the first year of law school no one cares about framing the issue concisely, but don’t let that stop you from ambushing faculty members anyway.

Orson, I’m not a tax expert (Crim Law is my baby)

But, CEO salary is determined in part by looking at “like enterprises” [Menards case and Treas Reg 1.162-7(b)(3)]

So…since CEOs are overpaid across the board, I don’t think that would be an issue.

But again…not an expert.

Shouldn’t that be Jort Kun do?

AUAlum…I know….not a first year

But I’m not harrassing tax faculty without something tangible and quick for them to analyze, they’re busy

Anyone who pisses off Myles Brand is OK in my book.

Hutz: Mr. Brand, we’ve got witnesses, precedent and a paper trail a mile long.
Myles: Yes. But I have ten high-priced lawyers.
Hutz: Ya, ya, yaaa!!! [runs out of office]
Orson: He left his briefcase. Hey, it’s full of shredded newspaper.

I see George Will about once a year driving his white Jaguar S-type with a Cubs sticker in the neighborhood. From a car standpoint, there’s a lot there to dislike.

Judging from his stance by the car while gassing it up, I think my four year old daughter could drop him, provided that she got a running start. In fact, having been kicked in the face by her recently, I think she could skip the running start.

Orson, check this out. The University of the Navy has outdone themselves again.

THESE guys defend our country? yikes.

Yikes

I don’t think the NCAA has a leg to stand on and more importantly the colleges don’t either.
While I would look forward to hearing Charley Rangel’s rapsy baritone yelling at a nasally Brand, it won’t happen. While the NCAA is a beast many could attack from a soapbox, no one wants to take on every college that is a member of the NCAA (not just the 119 that play D1 football, but any school that competes for any NCAA Title, including the Ivies). Those are huge economic engines that drive the country and if you made the athletic departments taxable then you see other parts of the university axed. No Congressman wants to be responsible for killing of State U’s drama department.
When scholarship donors aren’t able to write off part of their donations to Tigers Unlimited, Tide Pride, etc. there will be hundreds of thousands of angry wealthy people, and Congress won’t pick a fight with them.

Wooderson—

That’s going up now.

-O.

Navy player jumps “Weis,” lands suspiciously on target for backdoor action…

“Rum, sodomy, and the lash…”

Have they stopped keel-hauling in Annapolis?

Yeah, due to that video I might just call up a bookie and put a couple hundred on ND for the cover.

Like previously stated, I wasn’t exactly the “smart kid” in law school. But here’s how I’d defend the NCAA:

Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider: this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee — an eight foot tall Wookiee — want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

But more importantly, you have to ask yourself: what does that have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!

Look at me, I’m a lawyer defending the NCAA, and I’m talkin’ about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense.

And so you have to remember, when you’re in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation… does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense.

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must find that the NCAA owes NO TAXES! The defense rests.

Can’t you guys just ask Barry Zuckercorn? I mean, that guy’s a legal genius.

AUALum…taken from the tax law blog, taken from the Indianpolis Star

“University of Illinois law Professor John Colombo, a tax expert who also testified before the committee, believes the NCAA is in no real danger for two reasons: IRS precedent and the popularity of college sports. “(The IRS is) going to reverse 40 years of their own precedent?” Colombo said. "And if they do, how will congressmen from Texas and California — and let’s throw Oklahoma in there — react? It’s a political non-starter. “This is a not-so-subtle warning to the NCAA that its actions have consequences. The message is that Congress could step in and make your life miserable.”"

You nailed it.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2006/10/house_questions.html

i was reading Bob Loblah’s Law Blog, and he thinks the NCAA has a great case.

Wait, tax lawyers like football? Leave football to litigators…tax lawyers should like squash or maybe a nice game of bocci.

The official game of tax lawyers is sudoku.

If I recall correctly, the NCAA’s football revenues trend to zero, because the NCAA has zero say — and zero cut of — the football contract or the gate, concessions, or other various sources of filthy lucre. I don’t even think they have a say in the bowl games, else I wouldn’t have been able to get completely potted at the concession stand in Shrevetucky several years back. NCAA events are dry, which explains why tent cities in Omaha do booming business in beer sales for a fortnight in June/July every year.

The NCAA functions just like the government does vis-a-vis Social Security and welfare — they collect it, keep a non-trivial slice for its own nefarious purposes, then they redistrbiute it to its members according to arcane formulae.

One thing the government hates is competition.

the official game of law school is sudoku. beats paying attention in class.

In terms of the NCAAs legal exposure, they have more to fear from suits by members like the U of North Dakota over issues where they ignore their own internal procedures to impose some sort of restriction (like the rules against Native American imagery, unless you’re FSU).

Also, and I’m no expert, but I would be they worry about anti-trust action. There’s a private right of action in the US for anti-trust violations, and its pretty clear (to me, at least) that they’re fairly catelized. They came pretty close with Jeremy Bloom, but got lucky when he got bounced by the court. Eventually there will be a successful attack, though, especially since they’ve shown how they deal with competition by simply buying the NIT, Microsoft style.

Not all NCAA events are dry – you can get a beer at a Temple Basketball game, and yes, the venue is on campus (you can also take an umbrella into a temple football game – so, as you can see, they are total anarchists).

I’m a little more familiar with the planning side of taxes – come talk to me about the new IRA rules allowing you to make tax free (lifetime) donations of/from your retirement accounts – or maybe we can set up a single member LLC to make the donations to your alma mater so the “points” accrued can be transferred (lifetime or at death).

One thing I’ve learned is that you can never guess or underestimate what the IRS is going to do.

Albino -

And highlight that with the fact that all the folks involved are non-profits, and handle the revenue as non-profits. That is, it is reinvested into the operation of the non-profit (including, in some cases the education function) instead of being distributed out to shareholders as profit.

I like the federal government analogy. They have a much larger budget than the NCAA!

Parker

http://www.vnes.thatsanderskid.com/

THATS the official game of law school. Java NES emulator….it helps me survive

Piffle or not piffle?

I love the arrested development references,

The NCAA IS tax-exempt………at least thats what it said on Ask Jeeves……

Java NES emulator. Thanks, I’ll be fired by Thanksgiving.

Unfortunately, those of you who couch the issue as what the universities are doing are only butressing the Will’s argument. If the universities lose tax exemption, by definition so does the NCAA because its “income” would not be going to a tax exempt purpose.

Yeah that emulator is trouble in River City. I got at least 2/3 of the guys in my class on that thing within 3 classes of finding it.

Beats the hell out of CivPro though.

JD @ 23,

Are you implying that there’s math involved in Sudoku, and that’s why tax lawyers like it?! ‘Cause there ain’t no math in Sudoku. I’m so tired of explaining that to local Tallahassee dimwits who spot me working one at the coffee place:

“Hey, you muz be good at math ’n shit.”

“You must play for the home team. Unconquered lately? You slobbering mouth-breather.”

You could play Sudoku with Arrested Development characters, or Sesame Street faces, or 9 unique Rorschach blobs. It’s pattern recognition, not math.

[Or you might’ve just been joking, and I need to relax with the caffeine. Man, living in this town fires me up some days.]

The complete deductability of the required “donation” to athletic departments is easy to explain. It used to be fractionally deductable, the way donations to charities are that come when you participate in charitable auctions for, say, a cruise. However, there was a congressman on the ways and means committee who also happenned to be a huge LSU Tiger fan. He pushed through the change. End of story

Way to kill the thread with actual Tax Code talk, Stranko.

Do you want to kick some puppies while you’re here?

You could buy beer at USC’s games before last year. I was shocked when I went off to gradual school and couldn’t buy beer at the games. The diff is that USC plays in an off campus stadium that they don’t own so the general concession contracts come into play. So USC had to pay off the concession holders when they dried out the games last year (Except of course for the VIP areas inside).

Hey, don’t underestimate how serious this is. If my booster donation suddenly becomes non-deductible, that’s gonna affect my bottom line!

Rather than repeat myself, I’ll just re-post the link to my MiamiHawkTalk piece about this issue from early October.

http://www.miamihawktalk.com/home/news/story/3414/

As much as I dislike USC, I always looked forward to traveling to games there. Drinking in the stadium was great while my team was being thrashed. It was really all I had to look forward to after the tailgate and I knew it.

“Baseball-loving sissy ninny” I can’t wait to tag somebody I know with that one. GIVE ME AN EXCUSE, BITCH!!!

OC Phil #38 — you can buy things in the Los Angeles Memorial Mausoleum?

Sure has hell could have fooled me when I was there for the NU/USC game. There’s one goddamn concession stand in the entire North concourse.

Others —

While you may be able to buy booze at individual events under the auspices of the NCAA , depending on the concession policy of the venue in question, you cannot buy booze at an event run by the NCAA, such as the championships for Division I sports. I know. I’ve had to sneak alcohol into the College World Series in picturesque Omaha, Nebraska for years.

The “profitable” — note, not the same as for-profit — elements of the NCAA support the unprofitable activities. For example, at Nebraska, revenue from football, womens volleyball, and the transfer payments from the NCAA for things like the CBS contract support every other sport’s budget. The athletic department cannot accept funds from the state or from general university accounts. That includes every trip, every salary, every facility, and every scholarship dollar for every other athlete.

If TPTB want Title IX, they better leave the athletic department funding policies alone, because only by the sufferage of the profitable are the unprofitable permitted to continue.

I don’t think the Colliseum is worse than other stadiums I’ve been to as far as concessions (the Rose Bowl is worse). Still when I was a student I seldom bought stuff inside, we’d eat before and bring in our own booze the way college students are supposed to.

There is a move afoot to hand the stadium over to USC, now that the NFL is making it pretty clear that LA is not going to get a franchise. The building is state owned but they want to sign a “master lease” with USC that would have USC pay for improvements and be totally in charge of all operations there.

I just got my dagum fist stuck in this crotch over here. Damn Jenn Sterger.

The NCAA could evade this whole matter, and improve the game, by requiring much higher entrance requirements and graduation requirements, but do so with the addition of expanded eligibility — more or less endless eligibility.

Why should a good STUDENT-athlete, who wants to stay in school for a graduate degree, have to stop playing football? Particularly if he is not yet ready or does not desire to try the NFL?

The basic idea is outlined right here:

http://spartanbob.blogspot.com/2006/05/old-school-putting-college-back-in.html

oc phil: I was horrified when I learned that they had stopped selling beer at the Coliseum. I did used to buy it when I was a student because there was no way in hell I was getting up before 12.30 for an early game, so I had to make up time somehow.

Worse than the change at the Coliseum: my freshman year they really caused great sadness when they abruptly banned us from bringing our own coolers into Dedeaux Field. How’s a man to watch college baseball without a few foaming ales?

George Will makes the generally conservative look for a CP-USA membership office. He’s a boring windbag.

IrishOutsider-

Piffle.

Next question: The precarious balance between infield and outfield suggests a perfect symmetry. Identify the effect of that symmetry.

And before you ask, if, by play, you mean drink deep the aura of the game, then.. yes.