BEST 7-5 TEAM EVER!

Coach Callahan. Respek.

What an ending! I went white as soon as Hart lateralled the ball, jumping up and down in my apartment. I guess Lloyd Carr didn’t have these refs on the payroll, otherwise Michigan would have had the ball at the Nebraska 13.

Michigan is 6-6 in my book.

And one hell of a 6-6 team at that!

PSU fans need to stop with the conspiracy theories; it’s embarrassing for everyone else.

Michigan needs a new coach. I can’t say it any clearer.

Please God, no more Sun-Belt Conference refs. An embarassment to the whole officiating community.

I’d be saying the same things if I were a Michigan fan Joey. But having the benefit of some impartiality I have to disagree. Michigan really was close to being a BCS team this year and they’ve got tons of talent coming back next season. Also, didn’t Lloyd win you guys a MNC a few years back? Doesn’t that buy him a couple of unlucky 7-5 seasons as long as the program is scandal free and still recruiting?

When I watch that highlight over and over again, I see illegal participation from both teams (and one of the laterals seems to go slightly forward). Nearly the whole UM coaching staff is on the field by the time the long run breaks off. Just an awesome play though. I wish these kinds were more frequent.

If illegal participation had been called the penalty would have been assessed from the Line of Scrimmage. Michigan would have run a play from their side of the field with no time left.

1997 was eight years ago, and Carr has lost three games or more in seven of those eight years. Before that one special year, he had two consecutive four-loss seasons. He is an average coach who was fortunate to have inherited Charles Woodson. In the last five years, Michigan is 1-4 in bowl games; 1-4 against the Columbus Chain Gang; 1-3 against Notre Dame; and has lost 18 games in five seasons (that’s 3.6 per year). I appreciate the objectivity, Stranko, but Michigan fans have been trying to be objective for a long time. There have been lots of seasons when UM seemed like it would be a real contender given returning talent and previous close calls, but each time, the team has collapsed in predictable fashion.

Nobody does less with more than L-L-L-L-L-oyd Carr.

When you put it that way…. just kidding. If there were a must have coach out there I could see thinking about it, but I’m not sure who that would be at this point. The thing about Michigan’s losses is that they are almost always competitive. You never see them quitting or looking like they are poorly coached. You are in a tough conference with quality and parity which makes it tough to contend every year.

I take it all back… the beauty of college football is the passion. If the Michigan fans are calling for Carr’s head, then off with his head! Who am I, as a Florida fan, to second guess this.

Bitterhorn forgets the debacle that occurred in Knoxville. If you want a real less-with-more story go south young man to Big Orange Country.

On that last play, if the guy running with the ball had lateralled it back one more time, then Breaston scores.

Re: Michigan being 7-5 or 6-6. Aren’t they really a play or two away from 5-6 and no bowl. Seems like the PSU game plus one other ended miraculously in UM’s favor.

Turnovers, turnovers. Michigan coffed it up twice in the last quarter after being in a position to finish off the Big Red.

For non-partisan, entertaining game to watch.

Extremely entertaining (notwithstanding the big12 angle) to watch. The underachieving from Knoxville is also comi-tragic, but they didn’t make a bowl, so there’s no poking them when they’re down.

Big Orange and Less with More? Sounds like promotional ideas at the new fast food place I’m starting in Knoxville. I got the idea because I was stupid enough to bet Michigan in the Alamo Bowl. Check out the restaurant here, you will have to scroll a bit.

Please let LLLLLoyd stay

The Sun Belt refs just walked into my office and flagged us for running into the kicker. The funny thing was, we did just cream a kicker who was loitering in the copy room. Best call they’ve made in days.

Let’s do the coach-change square dance…Moochigan, anyone?

Stranko, I am with you (sort of). I think Michigan needs someone new, but I don’t know who that person is. That’s why I often articulate the need but stop short of calling for Carr to be fired. Change is imperative, but I don’t know who can deliver it while following the rules. As you said, it’s a clean program that has recruited well.

The job is one of the best there is, but I can’t imagine a top-tier college coach already having success wanting to leave a good thing. Stoops, Carroll, Richt—those guys aren’t leaving football schools to come to a place with worse in-state talent. I am sure there are assistants and NFL guys who would be good fits, but I’m not sure I know the right one. From a strategy standpoint, I think a dream candidate would be Norm Chow. He’s an aggressive, creative play caller. And the guy’s track record is both impressive and a seductive lure for recruits. Plus, his offense-only interest would likely ensure that he did the smart thing and hired a kick-ass defensive coordinator. But that said, can Chow recruit? Can he make good personnel decisions? Can he manage people? Work with the media? Is he even available (no, most likely)? It’s tough to know.

All I am certain of is that the boys-club network that has kept OC Jim Herrmann and ST coach Mike DeBord employed for too long has to stop. Michigan is in dire need of new ideas and a new attitude that demands greater performance from a coaching staff that seems content with inertia.

As a CFB fan that was a hell of game to watch. As an ND fan, it was nice to see another L notched on LLLLLoyd’s bedpost. It’s also good to see Nebraska be resusitated, albeit at a slower pace than JoePaPa’s. It’s a shame that they (Huskers) have to JUCO their way back, as I always respected their student-athlete tradition.

NO!!! LLLLLoyd must STAY!!! Please Bo, give him a contract EXTENSION!!! GO IRISH and WHOEVER is playing S. Superior!!

That was indeed some piss-poor officiating by the Sun Belt refs, and I hope at least a few people in the NCAA are giving serious consideration to knocking the entire SB conference down to D-IAA. I mean, at least when North Texas was good they could lay claim to having at least one decent, competitive “mid-major” team, but what has been their hat-hanging, legitimacy-maintaining achievement of 2005? The fact that their New Orleans Bowl representative came within a four-touchdown eyelash of beating mighty Army?

Anyway, John Sterling’s right, if any illegal-participation penalty had been called it would have been off-setting and the ball would have been put right back at the original line of scrimmage for one more play. And as much as it hurts me (as a closet Michigan fan) to say so, they didn’t really stand any chance of punking Nebraska on that play a second straight time unless they went five-wide and all five receivers formed Voltron to go storming into the end zone, crushing Nebraska defenders with each step. Oh well.

Doug gets comment of the day.

To all those that think Michigan is going to dominate the Big Ten and compete for the National Title next year, take a look at the 2006 schedule. Michigan makes trips to Notre Dame, Penn State, Minnesota, and Ohio State. Their home schedule includes Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan State. You can talk about all the talent coming back next year but it is the same talent that went 7-5 this year and next year, the schedule is more intense. Michigan will lose AT LEAST 3 games next year…you can also tack on a bowl loss at the end too.

Does anybody know how refs get assigned for bowl games? Is it done by the NCAA, or should we be ragging on the folks at the Alamo Bowl? Everything else aside, why are we using refs from leagues that don’t have replay?

The Evil Spider God draws them from his sorting hat with one of his eight mighty limbs, as far as we can tell. The Sun Belt guys were running around pantsless last night, as far as we could tell.

Anyone else notice that the head linesman announcing the calls looked like a Star-Bellied Sneetch in that ref’s jersey? He looked three months pregnant from the front.

bitterhorn, you are completely correct, I’ve been saying that for a while now that Carr does less with more better than anyone in the country, that distinction used to belong to Mack Brown but Carr has definitely taken that crown, easily.

Take heart, it could be much, much worse. In ‘97 (remember that year, don’t you?) the horns went 4-7. Mack came on and underachieved until he finally hired a competent DC (thank the Evil Spider God for Chizik). UofM just needs to do some addition by subtraction on the headset side.

Llllloyd got jobbed. Or, in proper roman numeral notation, Voyd got jobbed. Those refs need pink slips asap, missed PI, fumble not ruled a fumble, TO’s necessary for reviews, etc.
That being said, Voyd is not a great coach. As an ND fan, I hope he sticks around a long time.

I’m a big Carr supporter, though it’s getting tougher to stay that way. I think he’s a good head coach, but needs to be a little less stubbornly loyal to his coordinators. Michigan is a very insular program – they need some outside thinking.
Those who say Michigan should be 4-7 based on winning “miracle games,” are out of line. They played eight close games all year. Heck, you could make a case for them being 12-0 too. I guess playing eight tight games is going to catch up to you. Good discussion about that at the M Zone.

LLLLL=CCL

Re: The final play

I’m pretty sure the rule book states that you cannot advance a fumble with under two minutes in the game. If this is the case, once the lateral from Breaston to the lineman hit the turf, the play should have been blown dead upon UM’s recovery, and all of this illegal participation uproar is moot.

Of course, EuScPN will attract more viewers/readers/listeners by not knowing the rules.

Good question about the rule Cheese. I am pretty certain that you cannot recover a fumble foward on 4th down, but I’m not sure that applies if it is fumbled backwards. We’ll have to check the rule book on that one like we did to find the Bush Push was illegal.

On the issue of who assigns the conference officials, I learned from someone at the Alamo Bowl that that is all handed down by the mighty NCAA. I received a timely response to my rant on the refs at 4am from someone at the Alamo Bowl (me thinks they may have had a healthy inbox to sort through all night) but am still curious about whether I will get comment back from forwarding the email to the NCAA or the Sun Belt’s director of officiating.

Apparently as long as the Sun Belt has a team in any bowl, some other unfortunate bowl game will be hit with a Sun Belt crew the way the bowl system is set up. Hopefully this was just the worst crew from that conference. Without getting into the individual calls, I have never seen a crew so lost for an entire game. They seemed entirely clueless.

Great caption to that photo by the way. Unfortuntely, crappy refs or not, that photo could still be titled “OWNED.”

ARTICLE 2. A backward pass or fumble may be caught or recovered by
any inbounds player.
a. If caught, the ball continues in play (A.R. 7-2-2-I and II).
Exceptions:
1. Rule 8-3-2-d-5.
2. When on fourth down, before a change of team possession, a Team A fumble is caught in advance of the fumble by a Team A player other than the fumbler, the ball is dead and returned to the spot of the fumble. If the fumble is caught behind the spot of the fumble by a Team A player other than the Team A fumbler, the ball is dead at that spot.
b. If recovered by the fumbling or passing team, the ball continues in play
(A.R. 2-23-1-I).
Exceptions:
1. Rule 8-3-2-d-5.
2. When on fourth down, before a change of team possession, a Team A fumble is recovered in advance of the fumble by a Team A player other than the fumbler, the ball is dead and returned to the spot of the fumble. If the fumble is recovered behind the spot of the fumble by a Team A player other than the Team A fumbler, the ball is dead at that spot.

Rule 8-3-2-d-5 is for the PAT/conversion after a TD. So in this case I don’t think it mattered that it hit the ground.

1.) Bitterhorn, you can ALWAYS poke the Big Orange, with anything you want really. I like those big spears they chucked around in the LOTR movies, but anything will do. A nail file, a butter knife, the blunt end of a baseball bat…

2.) Joey, there is a star candidate worth kicking LLLoyd out for: Al Borges. Please take him. We don’t need some weird west coaster around here spreading blasphemous ideas about offense winning football games in the SEC.

Rule 7-2-2-b-2 — you can’t advance a fumble on fourth down (before a change of possession). Fumble forward, dead where fumbled; fumble backward, dead at spot.

However, it was second down.

Can’t find anything about two minutes.

(If this is right, why don’t all games — with the offensive team down by 8 or less — end under instructions to the offense that no one (execution and judgment mistakes aside) is to allow themselves to be tackled or run out of bounds without a lateral, at random if necessary. The play is not to end in anything but a score or a turnover.)

[This feels like a dormroom question — Why aren’t all hockey goalies 500 pounds? — that generally deserves hooting down, but what am I missing?]

Right now I just want to draw a warm bath, pour a glass of Hennessy, and swallow six or seven valium. Part of me wishes the “what would have happened if the officiating didn’t suck ass?” questions didn’t exist so the complete incompetence of the team was discussed exclusively.

Alright, I am confused….

Damn Sun Belt refs just flagged us again for holding during a conference call. Fuck these guys in the ass.

Benny’s comments look like something taking from a Vol chatboard:

“I think he’s a good head coach, but needs to be a little less stubbornly loyal to his coordinators. Michigan is a very insular program – they need some outside thinking.”

Everyone wants outside thinking, fresh ideas, etc. unless you’re a Nebraska Cornhusker minus an Alamo Bowl victory, then it was “we need the I-formation, Turner Gill, run the ball. This new fangled offense sucks.”

Oh the difference between winning and losing. For years the Vols smirked and mocked at UGA and Bama as head coaches/coordinators cycled thru but were unproductive (except with their secretaries/strippers – that’s for you RedTide, winner of 1 straight against the Vols – a streak equalled by Vandy you must be proud). We declared “stability wins”. Then when they won (with another set of new coaches) and we lost – “we need fresh ideas”.

Of course, without such whipsaw/counter-logic passion, we’d be NFL fans.

Nothing like a Vol fan to represent some sour grapes out of the Crystal Meth Capital of the South.

Michigan fans may not like Lloyd Carr, but I seem to remember Gary Moeller doing what I thought was impossible — posting a 4-4-4 record back in the day.

Sorry Hack – shouldn’t have let my little Bama dig interrupt the “grass is greener” point I was trying to make.

Maybe it’s reading about Shula going to get diapers at Wal-Mart here in my hometown (Dallas) paper is too close of a reminder that Bama lurks nearby. Or is it a prophetic feeling that with Bama coming to town God has started burning the place down, ala Sodom/Gomorha.

Newspaper Hack, your memory is off. Michigan hasn’t won fewer than six games since the 1960’s.

Moeller’s record at Michigan:

1990—9-3
1991—10-2
1992—9-0-3
1993—8-4
1994—8-4

The only saving grace I took from the game is the thought that just maybe the official scorer on that last play was a Nebraska fan.

Incidentally, thanks to that last play, Ecker’s game line apparently ends up as 1 catch for 71 yards, with a long catch of 13 yards and a touchdown.

http://mgoblue.com/document_file/fbl-boxscore-122805.pdf

CardsProf – I was actually just having this discussion with my brother. We came to the conclusion that there is no reason at all that the offense should let the play die. at all. For example, in the Alamo Bowl, Ecker should have done ANYTHING except for what he did. Head towards the middle of the field, lateral to Breaston, toss the ball backwards over his head, chuck it all the way back up the field. ANYTHING.

I have yet to find a reason, other than not wanting the other team to score again, for pride’s sake, to let the play die. I have not found someone that can explain it to me either. It almost seems like the hook and ladder, if decently practiced, gives a higher chance of success than a hail mary, depending on personnel.

NY Times on the last Alamo bowl play.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/30/sports/ncaafootball/30lateral.html

Unbelievable outcome, especially with the talent that Mee-chi-gan snags in the recruiting wars. Does Lllllloyd do less with more than any other Division I coach in the country?

No one fears the Maize & Blue like they used to. This is now a finesse team in a physical conference. Which is to imply that they get there arses whipped by the Big Boys in the Big Ten.

I’m a lifelong Tennessee fan, grew up near Knoxpatch and have lived in Ann Arbor for the last 12 years. Whoever made the comment about the Michigan comments sounding as if they came off a Vol chat board on dead on the money.

The two programs share a lot of similarities in regard to loyalty to assistants. For the ast five years, my buddies and I were specualting on what kind of animal Fulmer is shaggin’ in the photos Randy Sanders had of him cause there was NO other explanantion for Sanders keeping his job.

But I digress. At Michigan it’s an insular mentalitity in regard to their coaches. As long as Bo is alive, it’s inconceivable for them to hire a HC without some ties to Bo. They will stick with LLLLLoyd for another season for sure and unless he actually has a losing season, they will not fire him. Their only hope is for him to get burnt out and step down.

At Tennessee, they have the same tendency to not hire out of a very limited pool, sort of like the limited genepool up in Cocke County (or Kalkaska for any Michigan fans). I mean, shaking things up offnensively means bringing back DAvid Cutcliffe for God’s sake. Some Vol fans remmeber him as having this explosive offense but that was with Peyton Manning. At Mississippi he had soem decent offensive numer with Eli Manning. Can the guy coach without incredibly smart and talented QBs? I don’t see it.

Remember this is the guy who only let Jamal Lewis have 5 touches in the 1997 Florida game. The first 4 went like this (midway through the 2nd quarter-still a game going on):

1st and 10 – Off tackle right for 9 yards.
2nd and 1 – Off tackle left for 8 yards.
1st and 10 – Off tackle right for 1 yards.
2nd and 9 – Off tackle left for 1 yards.

Then they passed on 3rd and 8, the last two runs convincing Cutcliffe that the run wasn’t going to work.

The next week, they actaully let Jamal finally play and he reels off 225 yards against Ole Piss. Lewis ends up getting 1300+ yards, only playing in 8 games.

Same year, they threw only 5 passes to the TE all year. They just abandon a major part of the offnese. Cutcliffe, bizarrely, can make an offense complex and predicatble at teh same time. It’s quite an achievement.

At the

The only thing worse than losing to Nebraska is being compared to Tennessee.

Its always fun watching Mich. (or any big 10 team for that matter) get beat up on by the big 12 (especially Nebr). The big 10 sucks…thats why they have 2 less big teams than the big 12, and half the competition. Texas and Okla EVERY year?!! The big 10 can kiss my ass. Also, Nebr. is taking down both USC (first game of the year) and Tex. TWICE. Dont think it cant happen.

Michigan needs to hire Cincinnati’s Mark Dantonio. He’s a bit like a new Bo, only instead of Woody he worked for Tressel and instead of Miami of OH he works for Cinci.