THE BUSH PUSH: LEGAL?
Michael McCarthy makes a couple of enlightening points in his media watch column in USA TODAY:
1. NBC, after botching quality television all day on Saturday, let the afterglow of a stunning game linger for all of four minutes on Saturday before switching to their abominable coverage of NASCAR. No one keeps THE MR. Benny Parsons waiting–no one!
2. Neither announcer bothered to ask the question “Was Reggie Bush’s shove legal?” Bush admittedly shoved Leinart “as hard as he could;” no one’s bothered to ask if the rule book allows that. But never mind us, we’re not the exorbitantly paid “Voices of America’s Team.” Cue thousands of Notre Dame fans climbing into the alternate reality machine…
Stranko’s Edits***… Did USC win by cheating? You bet they did. Check out page 117 of the rules. That game winning touchdown should have been a game ending 5 yard penalty. Had they rules been followed, USC loses. Had USC lost, clearly they are no longer number 1. I am curious to see what blog pollers do with the fact that USC won only because of a blown call.
Bush seen here “cheating” to earn USC another victory.
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1
Bill says:
It’s a non-issue to me as an ND fan. Yes, it’s technically a penalty, but it’s never called. I do find it funny, though, that Bush proudly proclaimed that he did it after the game. Between that and his little hotdog slow-up at the end zone that resulted in a well-deserved shot from Zbikowksi to his lower back, Bush showed that he was far from being the smartest athlete on the field Saturday, despite being the best athlete.
Bottom line: USC had their opportunity and got it done, ND had their opportunities and didn’t get it done. Shit happens. Nothing to do with the officiating.
October 17th, 2005 at 12:22 pm
2
Hippster in KC says:
No one hates the NBC production more than ND fans: the ridiculous 80s guitar version of the Victory March, the incomparable Pat Haden, the half-ass camera work, the 10-minute commercial breaks, etc.
I’d rather go straight to NASCAR than listen to Terry Bowden, who without question has the most annoying voice/accent of any television personality in history. Or Aaron Taylor for that matter.
I think it would have been pretty cheesy to flag Bush on that play, but I don’t understand why it took 10 minutes to spot the ball and reset the clock. Oh well. USC deserved to win, but ND will be in the hunt the next few years.
And ND fans everywhere are glad that our coach did not weep after the game. Maybe Meyer played Florida worse than he played ND.
October 17th, 2005 at 12:29 pm
3
Shane MacGowan's Teeth says:
Technically, it’s not legal, but I don’t see how you could make that call. Hell, I’ve never seen it called before.
By the way, great some great comments on the night:
“That’s illegal in some parts of Utah.”
- Pat Haden as they showed footage of a trainer helping Reggie Bush stretch his hip…or engaging in some of that…ahem, strange…Trojan behavior most often demonstrated by Petey Carol and his QB.
http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/995/F122249.jpg
“Have you ever been whipped by a 5-10, 150 pound old man?”
- Lou Holtz throwing the gauntlet down on that no-talent ass clown, Mark May, who in the face of DNA evidence stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that ND was justified in firing Willingham.
October 17th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
4
Stranko Montana says:
Is this akin to the Nebraska kicked pass in the endzone play from almost a decade ago?
October 17th, 2005 at 12:48 pm
5
Rick says:
ND is not Michigan. The score is in the books and Weis went into their locker room and shook their hands. The three big runs by Bush had more to do with the loss than any ref call. We’ll take the gains that we’re apparent on the field. Weis is already a better gameday coach than Carroll.
If not for a bit of luck at the end Carroll would be getting toasted for allowing a rattled QB in the student end of a geeked up stadium to audible into a long fade route into coverage when he only needed 8 yards for a first down with more than two minutes on the clock. And Reggie Bush on the field. He’d be getting toasted even harder for using all of his timeouts and then calling two QB runs at the goaline with time ruuning out while only needing a field goal to tie.
Weis has ND in year one about where Carroll had SC in year two – with less on the depth chart than Carroll has ever had. Weis’ gameplan and preparation were impeccable. TOP was almost 2-1 in favor of ND and Leinart got the crap beat out of him by an unheralded defense. Their corners were hit with 3 PI penalties trying to cover recievers that they dominated last year.
It could have easily gone the other way at the end but shit happens. The future is very bright in South Bend.
October 17th, 2005 at 1:17 pm
6
Stranko Montana says:
Amen to that
October 17th, 2005 at 1:19 pm
7
Jim K says:
If you watch the NFL films Ice Bowl recap thingy, there’s a part where the Packers running back talks about the winning play. The replay shows bart starr sneaking in, with his rb (i’ve forgotten his name) following with his arms raised, as if in celebration. Anyway, turns out the play was called for the rb to take the ball, starr just took it upon himself to go in, sua sponte. The rb recalls that he ran into starr’s back as a result of simply following the play as designed. Here’s the best part: his arms are raised to alert the officials that he WAS NOT pushing starr, because he knew it was a penalty. Just food for thought.
And I would like to compliment Stranko on his rule interpretation – plain language and all that. But let us not forget policy arguments. How could they possibly lose and further threaten the BCS, which pretty much is fubar without at least one undefeated team? and USC is so cool, and Leinart is so dreamy, and LA is so glamorous. Reminds me of an officiating crew ensuring a BCS spot for the ACC back in 2003 here in gainesville.
October 17th, 2005 at 1:26 pm
8
I'm a Realist says:
An addendum to Stranko’s update:
The game would not have ended had the penalty been called. Notre Dame would have accepted the penalty to discount the touchdown (the game, half, etc. cannot end on an enforced penalty), so USC would have had the ball for at least one more play. They could have kicked the 23-yard field goal to send it into overtime, which would have made that game the greatest game ever played. Instead, we are left with one of the greatest games ever that ended with an obvious, yet obscure penalty not being called. This play is very similar to the kicked ball play, with the exception that the kick could have possibly appeared unintentional to the naked eye. Leinart was stoned at the line, and Bush (admittedly) pushed him in the rest of the way.
I assert that every play should be officiated in a vacuum, independently of the context of the game or future game situations. If that is not the case, how then can officials claim to not have biases when calls are made? If that is the case, one cannot claim that a call should not be made because “It is never called” or “They can’t call that at the end of the game” or whatever other lame excuse one can make for the officials missing a blatant call. The game is over, I’m over it, but it still sucks.
October 17th, 2005 at 1:36 pm
9
Bill says:
Carroll hinted that USC would have gone for it no matter what if they were close at the end, instead of kicking a field goal. Even from the 6 yard line. He said the defense was gassed and he absolutely didn’t want OT.
Remember, they had no timeouts left yet Leinart still snuck it – had he come up short, game over. Had Leinart not fumbled on the play earlier, game over.
October 17th, 2005 at 1:55 pm
10
boifromtroy says:
Yeah, um, if you know anything about USC’s “Special” Teams, you’d know that they’d probably go for it from the 5 after a penalty anyways…
October 17th, 2005 at 2:02 pm
11
Stranko Montana says:
Question for those with superior football knowledge… in the NFL, an offensive penalty can end a game and in fact can result in the winding of the clock even if there is time left. A game can’t end on a defensive penalty. What is the story with college?
October 17th, 2005 at 2:11 pm
12
Rick says:
The rule is different in college. An accepted penalty on either side stops the clock.
October 17th, 2005 at 2:28 pm
13
Corey says:
I think of Nebraska’s “kick ball” victory over Missouri 8 years ago.
In the end it’s just like they see in the SEC, if you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’. The refs didn’t punish the Trojans, why should I?
October 17th, 2005 at 2:32 pm
14
Y2K says:
Corey, that’s an excellent point. If you start punishing teams or rewarding teams for what “should’ve happened” there’d be a cluster-f of undefeated teams. It’s a slippery slope, too. The fact is, USC won the game.
October 17th, 2005 at 3:20 pm
15
Orson Swindle says:
Yup–but it won’t stop us from thinking about dropping them this week from number one to number two for Texas in the top spot.
October 17th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
16
The Wizard says:
We’ve been out in front of this since Saturday. Also have a photo of the play. Check it out:
http://thewizardofodds.blogspot.com/2005/10/usc-wins-when-push-comes-to-shove.html
October 17th, 2005 at 3:59 pm
17
Corey says:
But what has Texas done really? They beat an offensively-challenged Ohio State team and a couple of mediocre Big XII teams.
USC has had three tough road games and survived each one of them.
And this isn’t even a conference strength argument because the Big XII isn’t very good this year.
October 17th, 2005 at 4:27 pm
18
Bill says:
Charlie Weis’ own words:
I’m with him. Shit happens.
October 17th, 2005 at 4:33 pm
19
Stranko Montana says:
They won the game and we can’t second guess that (although last second blunders are differnt from 1st quarter blunders in terms of having a direct effect on the outcome). The question is, when you have 4 quality undefeated teams and USC has been number 1 because of past seasons’ performances, does it effect your view of them. Texas, Virginia Tech and Georgia have not needed and last second officiating blunders to remain unbeaten. USC has looked very talented but struggled for a time against a quality Oregon squad who was unranked at the time. They had to come back to beat an obviously over rated ASU team which has 3 losses and they struggled for 3 quarters to take control against a mediocre (Ole Miss-esque) Arizona team. Beating Notre Dame is their most impressive accomplishment and the only one on par with Texas beating OSU on the road… except that perhaps they should really have lost the game. The big XII sucks, but Texas has taken care of business against a very good OSU team and a Colorado team which is at least on par with Oregon… so now what? That is the question.
October 17th, 2005 at 4:54 pm
20
Bill says:
I think that USC showed on Saturday that they will beat anyone when they actually show that they’re interested in the game. They have defensive issues, but they are nearly impossible to stop offensively if they execute.
I still think they’re better than Texas, and I think they beat Texas in a BCS championship matchup. Same with VT.
To me, they’re still #1. Unfortunately.
October 17th, 2005 at 5:00 pm
21
Nico says:
They only reason to bitch about the (non)call is if we see a rash of this getting called in the near future, which probably won’t happen.
October 17th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
22
Heismanpundit says:
Stranko, you are way off on your comments.
Oregon was ranked when USC beat them. USC has beaten three teams on the road that were ranked at the time. The ASU team you call overrated lost to USC, LSU and Oregon, all currently in the top 15. Two of those losses came down to the fourth quarter. How can they be overrated? The other three major undefeated teams (what about UCLA?) haven’t exactly set the world on fire against big competition. Va. Tech has played exactly one ranked team. Texas’ big win was a narrow one against an Ohio State team that has already lost twice and should probably have another loss on the ledger if not for an egregious MSU blunder. Georgia struggled to beat Miss. State and South Carolina. The fact that USC can win 45-13 and can be labeled to have ’struggled’ shows how they have raised the bar to unrealistic expectations as to how well they perform. To wit, USC put up 475 yards and 34 points against Notre Dame (something Florida would kill for at this point), but they are ’struggling’ offensively. Lastly, to call Colorado on par with Oregon is just, well, indicative that you probably haven’t seen much of either team.
It’s really very simple. Of the top four teams, USC has played the toughest schedule. They have the biggest bullseyes on their backs and a long win streak to protect. They are not playing for just this season, but for history, which brings an enormous amount of pressure upon them as they play under an unprecedented media microscope. Teams give them their best shot every week, coaches resort to as many gimmicks as possible (jersey switches, 10-foot grass). Which makes their continuing winning all the more impressive. Sometimes they don’t respect their opponent and play below their par. But their opponent is always respecting them and playing above par. You cannot say the same with the other teams.
October 17th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
23
Jason Fowler says:
I’m convinced. USC has an asterisk in my book. That’s all that matters.
October 17th, 2005 at 8:13 pm
24
Nate says:
No use bitching about the non-call. Weis’s comments were spot-on. Game’s over, let’s move on and hang 70 on BYU this weekend.
October 17th, 2005 at 8:14 pm
25
John B. says:
Same thing here from an ND die-hard, the ‘Bush-Push’ penalty was no big deal, I didn’t even blog about it. I have never seen that penalty called at any level of football…ever. No ref has balls that large to make that call at that point in that game…
Weis has the Irish back to prominence and on their way to greatness…look out next year, especially with some of the present freshmen and the incoming recruits. This team is here to stay…as long as Weis is coach. The game was a loss, but the program is on a winning course, no doubts now. This isn’t a Ty 8-0 and then take a dive, it is for real. This guy can outcoach anyone in college football, once he gets the extra horses in a few places on the field, the rest will fall into place.
Did anyone see Weis roll his eyes with about a minute left??? He rolled the ole eyes and then exhaled deeply towards one of his assistants, as if to say “Geez this is intense/stressful”. The intensity probably didn’t surprise him, but I will bet the head coaching nerves even rolled around in ole Charlie’s stomach a bit…he suddenly realized that he isn’t just an NFL assistant anymore.
Good things to come here in South Bend, I haven’t seen the city abuzz like this since Holtz or Ara.
October 17th, 2005 at 8:34 pm
26
Solon says:
HP, I have to agree with you on one thing–I suspect that at the end of the season, USC’s 32-point win at Oregon will look to be exceptionally impressive. Worst-case scenario, they finish 9-2, and, with their only road games at ‘Zona and WSU, they’ll be hard pressed not to finish 10-1.
Also, there’s little doubt that USC’s schedule is the most difficult of all the top teams at this point; given how close they’ve played it, it’s not so difficult that it warrants being such an undisputed #1, but it’s considerably tougher than the schedules of all of the other undefeateds.
That said, I’m not sure that the claim that USC’s opponents are all ‘playing above par’ is (1) true, and (if it is true) (2) an argument in favor of USC being ranked #1.
Oregon, in particular, did not play well at all; even when they took the 13-0 lead it was down more to USC mistakes and a few questionable calls than Oregon playing well. And my take on ND was that they just played their game and nearly beat USC; it wasn’t so much that they played out of their minds, it was just that they lined up, played, and nearly won. For my money, ND looked a lot better on the road at Purdue (despite the fact that Purdue is generally acknowledged to be shit).
And either way, if teams are all ‘playing above par’ against USC, at what point is that down to USC? Doesn’t it say something about their coaching/relative level of ability if they can’t stop opposing teams from playing their best?
October 17th, 2005 at 9:22 pm
27
That 5.0 Guy says:
I may be speaking totally out of line here, but the push is hardly ever called. As Orson knows, I played line, and I pushed all the time, and never once was I flagged for it. I’m not very good at being sneaky, I’d do give the push at the very back of the pile in the open. It sucks, but it’s a cheat/foul/flub that is hardly ever called. In my experience, anyway. So, I guess what I’m saying is, Weis is right and everybody does it and this is one of those moments that will live in infamy like some of the cases listed above.
I’m out.
October 17th, 2005 at 9:28 pm
28
Stranko Montana says:
I agree that Weiss’s comments about the play were pure class. As for Oregon and Colorado, I’ve seen each team twice and still think they are close. I’d bet on the home team if they played in a pick em.
October 17th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
29
Kanu says:
Did anyone else hear Hayden single-handedly produce the new NBC ND nadir when he said something like “Wow – you know, when Brady Quinn throws the ball, it is like thunderbolts coming down from Thor!”
My $.02:
1) The ‘push’ happens all day, ee’er day (on fall SAturdays anyways), and is never called. Saying that the rules should be interpreted literally & in a vaccum is interesting, but then baseball history would have to be replayed with a legitimate strikezone per the rulebook, and NHL history wold be completely different if 78,396 obvious penalty calls in the 3rd period/OT in the playoffs were called per the rulebook. Some rules simply are not enforced per the rulebook in sports and that’s just the way it is.
2)It sure looks to me like Leinart would have scored anyways, with or without the push. The push didn’t even get him in – it was after Bush was 3 feet away from him that he did his little dance class spin thingy and broke through – seemed to me that the push didn’t even help
Anything else I would add has already been said. Doesn’t matter much at this point; seems like everyone should just move the hell on. Those in the bitter-that-SC-won camp can at least take solace in the fact that it now appears that SC are beatable, whereas before until the past two weeks the common thought was that they were not.
Leinart needs to step it up if they are going to win out – lost in all the hoopla was the fact that he did not play very well at all if you look at the whole game.
Enough, I’m off to meet an Arizona State girl for drinks – I’ll have to see what she thinks of all of this.
October 17th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
30
The Drizzle says:
I say it’s over and done and ND gets ready to run the table and head for the BCS. But still, the whole end of the game situation raises some questions. I’d definitely want to sit down with officials and run through this with them:
Are you aware of the rule outlawing assisting the ball carrier like that?
If you’re not, then you don’t need to be officiating games, if you are then did you see it happen?
If you didn’t, then what the hell were you watching, if you did then did you consciously decide to ignore it?
If you did ignore it, does that mean you don’t see it as your job to just enforce the rules, but to also pass judgement on the overall situation and whether a rule is applicable at that point?
In the end it raises some questions about officiating and the rules of the game. I think most would agree that the rule itself is pretty foolish and you might have seen it called once in your lifetime. But if it’s such a foolish and unused rule, why is it still on the books? Why has it never been removed?
October 18th, 2005 at 12:33 am
31
I'm a Realist says:
“But their opponent is always respecting them and playing above par. You cannot say the same with the other teams.” – Heismanpundit
Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me that teams don’t circle Texas on their schedule? What about the reigning conference champion Virginia Tech? You think that’s an over-looked game? I’m sure Tennessee forgot that UGA was coming to town this year. All of the teams at the top get the best shot from their schedule.
Make an argument about the quality of said schedule, but you can’t argue that your patsies play harder against you than someone else’s patsies. That’s ridiculous.
October 18th, 2005 at 8:53 am
32
Jake says:
I’d say Leinart doesn’t get in without the push. I thought that was pretty obvious he wouldn’t, actually. Its true that its illegal and rarely called, however.
On the other hand, USC tried to call TO (its O-Coord?) when it had no timeouts. That should have been called, which would have put the ball between the 6 and 9 depending on the spot before the sneak play.
October 18th, 2005 at 9:33 am
33
Bill says:
Calling for a TO when you don’t have any is not a penalty. It’s a technical in basketball, but it’s just ignored by officials in football. Straight out of the rulebook.
October 18th, 2005 at 9:37 am
34
Xon says:
Amen, Realist!
If USC is to get some kind of “credit” for having the bullseye on their back every game, then so should VA Tech, UGA, Tex, etc. Case in point (as a UGA fan I can speak to this): South Carolina (almost) ALWAYS plays Georgia tough. It’s Carolina’s first big game of the year, it pretty much sets the tone for their entire season, and they clearly have it circled in their minds all summer long. The 13-1 #3 UGA team (#2 if the Ohio State-Miami game hadn’t been so equally-played)played an ugly rain-soaked defense slobber-knocker against the Gamecocks and won 13-7, with the Gamecock back fumbling on 4th down deep in Georgia territory in the final minute. That Gamecock team went on to get their butts kicked by Clemson and others and posted a 5-6 record. But they played Georgia tough early in the year. We’re their #2 rival (#1 in terms of importance for their season). They’re like #5 or #6 for us.
Anyway, that sort of situation probably comes up for every good team.
October 18th, 2005 at 9:51 am
35
Rick says:
Stranko, just say this: “Clearly, I hate USC and envy their success so I’m going to downplay anything that they accomplish on the field and find any little excuse to harp on. And I’m also choosing to disregard the 2 blantant block in the backs that weren’t called during Notre Dame’s kick return for a touchdown.” How about them Gators Stranko.
October 18th, 2005 at 1:06 pm
36
Murph says:
The 2 “blantant” block in the backs weren’t blatant at all. They were questionable at best. And if you rewatch the entire game, you will see that very similiar block happens during one of Bush’s touchdown runs. So if anything, the blocks are questionable, but they happened to both teams, and the refs were consistent in making them “no calls”.
October 19th, 2005 at 1:48 pm
37
bob nd81 says:
My take is:
1) Leinart doesn’t get in…I recorded to DVD and watched at 15 fps over and over…he was jammed…
2) Shoe’s on other foot, ND gets the “rarely called” penalty, NBC reviews the play ad nauseum, and the announcer says “Though rarely called, it looks like the refs got it right…I don’t think Quinn would have gotten in without the push.”
3) I think the Pac 10 refs would have thrown the flag in situation 2) above…how they missed it, I don’t know.
4) Anyone see the ‘78 ND-USC game (in LA) in which 1 or 2 touchdowns ‘occurred’ on running plays but no football crossed into the end zone for USC?
Long memories, here…
October 22nd, 2005 at 12:40 am
38
Tommy Trojan says:
“It could have easily gone the other way at the end but shit happens. The future is very bright in South Bend.”
“Weis has the Irish back to prominence and on their way to greatness…look out next year, especially with some of the present freshmen and the incoming recruits. This team is here to stay…as long as Weis is coach.”
HAhahaahHAHAHahhahahaAHAHahHAHAHAhAhahhahahahhahahahaha.
Notre Dame fans can be so delusional. Welcome to 2009, bitches!
October 23rd, 2009 at 6:34 pm