THE NANCY CLARK INTERVIEW
Preface: about a week ago, Nancy Clark of the Des Moines Register wrote a column slagging college football bloggers in general. A mini-brouhaha ensued, and we thought the sensible thing to do was call her up and ask her a bit about herself, football, and her experience and knowledge of college football blogs. According to her, we were the only ones who made the effort to call her. (Kevin from Fanblogs left a message, but he may not have been as pesky and stalkerish as we were.) After a bit of phone tag, we got a hold of her Thursday night and had a 45-minute conversation with Ms. Clark. No Barbara Walters tears or O’Reilly-esque shutupafests ensued. The transcript of the interview follows.)
Orson Swindle: How long have you been a football fan?
Nancy Clark: When I’m on the job, I really don’t consider myself a fan.
OS: In your free time are you a fan?
NC: I’ve watched football since my dad took me to games as a kid. I don’t have one particular team, but I do enjoy watching football.
OS: Which coaches and/or systems do you have coaches you maintain a great amount of respect for?
NC: Oh, wow…you know, that’s a tough question because there’s been so many. I’ve been in this business for 31 years, so there’s been a lot. One coach is Ken Hatfield, who coaches at Rice now, who I covered when he used to coach at Arkansas. He cared a great deal about treating the players right and about academics, so that’s one person I would choose.
OS: Where’d you go to school?
NC: I went to the University of Missouri and got a degree in Journalism, and I went to grad school at the University of Arkansas/Little Rock.
OS: How long have you worked for the Des Moines Register?
NC: 14 years.
OS: How long have you been covering football?
NC: I started out covering high school football in 1974. Most of the time since has been spent in sports, though I spent some time covering news and features when I was raising a family. Probably about 20-25 years covering football.
OS: Tell me about the Iowa Hawkeyes this year.
NC: I was just at their media day on Monday. They’re feeling really good about their running back situation after having five running backs going down last year. Not only do they have five guys coming back, they’ve added a few new guys. Coach Ferentz said he’s not concerned about the position now that they have nine guys at running back. Plus they’ve got Drew Tate back, which is a good thing.
OS: Iowa State. Anything shaking there?
NC: Just the overall depth, that they’re gonna have with experienced players. They’ve only got a few new starters, and they’re excited about all the guys having a season together and jelling as a team. Wide receiver Todd Black is back after a knee injury, and he’s someone they’re real excited about. That’s one good thing they’re pointing to.
OS: Tell me something good about Northern Iowa.
NC: I was there yesterday! They have two tremendous tailbacks. They have one guy Tarrance Freeney, who’s back after a thousand yard season, plus they also have a fella named David Horn from Nebraska. They’re always real excited about D-1 tranfers at D-1AA schools. They’re real excited about having the two of them in the same backfield.
OS: Do you read any football blogs daily?
NC: No.
OS: Do you ever read them?
NC: Oh yeah. Occasionally I look at the ones that pertain to Iowa and Iowa state.
OS: Which ones?
NC: No, I can’t name them off the top of my head.
OS: Your column generated a wide array of responses. (We then read her an excerpt from Westerdawg’s response to her column.) What threat do his examples pose to a paper like the Register?
NC: Well, I’m not aware that they do pose a threat. I guess I have to explain. Everything in Iowa is about Iowa or Iowa State. There are no professional sports in Iowa, and everyone is for Iowa or Iowa State. I guess some people read the blogs, but I know a heck of a lot of people who read the newspaper.
OS: How about this one? (We then read Boi From Troy’s response.) Is this true?
NC: Well I have a thought on the issue of access. I think access is one niche where bloggers can find a niche. It may be that the MSM has an advantage in terms of getting passes and access. But once we’re in, we have to play by their rules. Once in a while, we write something offensive and we get in trouble for it. Bloggers may have an advantage there.
For example, journalists basically have one hour a week when they can access players. But nothing stops a blogger from walking up to a player and asking them questions. There’s no rule against that. I think it’s a great niche to find someone on campus who does have access at other times.
OS: Was there a particular incident or pattern of incidents that formed your opinion of blogs?
NC: There have been four that really stand out, not only in my mind but in the mind of readers across Iowa. The 2 most serious were the Jennie Lillis and the Steve Alford episodes. Jennie Lillis was an all-Big 10 forward on the Iowa women’s basketball team. A couple of years ago when Iowa men’s player Pierre Pierce was accused of sexual assault, it became known that a member of the basketball team was the victim. Bloggers and message boards thought they put two and two together and named her as the victim. She endured terrible harassment from basketball fans for what happened to Pierre Pierce. Everyone across Iowa accepted it as fact, and how do you fight that? There was eventually a Register article where here family came out and cleared it up, but it ruined her senior season. The point to is that people still didn’t believe it after the mainstream media wrote about it. The damage was done.
OS: Do you fault blogs/message boards for the rumor or the degree of rumormongering?
NC: I think both, since it was extreme in both cases.
OS: What blogs in particular were to blame?
NC: I don’t know that I could name them. There seemed to be several going back them. It was on all of them, though.
OS: In the pre-internet era, would it have been as severe?
NC: Not to the extent to the degree that it was. Remember that I come from the pre-internet era, and back before the internet, people dismissed things like this as rumor. Now people take it as fact.
The Steve Alford episode, well, a year ago it got spread on the internet in the same way as the Jennie Lillis thing. It’s interesting that it was so detailed… Message boards said that Alford had been caught with another woman by his wife in a hot tub and a ruckus ensued and law enforcement was called and all of Iowa accepted it as fact. All anyone had to do was call Steve Alford, call his wife, or check his whereabouts that day and they would have known that it wasn’t true. And his family had to just sit there and endure it.
OS: Do you differentiate between bloggers and message boards?
NC: I differentiate between good, responsible bloggers and those who spew junk. Some of my friends are bloggers.
OS: You care to name them?
NC: No, I’d rather not.
OS: You stated that some bloggers are “losers”. Do you think most bloggers are “losers?”
NC: I couldn’t give you a percentage. I certainly think some of them are.
OS: Any in particular?
NC: No.
OS: How about us?
NC: Well I told you, you were the only one who bothered to call me. I think you must have a responsible bone in your body.
OS: Do you think there’s anything blogs do that the MSM doesn’t do as well?
NC: Well, yeah, I think that’s something that bloggers can do that we don’t do as well. I think there’s ample opportunity to get greater access outside of our one hour with the coaches and players a week.
OS: What about readers of blogs?
NC: Well, I don’t know exactly. I don’t see anything wrong with people getting on the web 24 hours a day if that’s what they want to do. They need to be questioning: Who is this blogger? Who are his sources? If you want your best bet by reading papers, watching television news, wherever else you get your news? Can blogs do the same? Some do.
OS: Are you aware that Fanblogs, mentioned prominently in the Wall Street Journal, has invited you to guest blog with them?
NC: Who? Just kidding! I have had I don’t know how many emails wanting some sort of comment on that kind of thing.
OS: If so, do you intend to take them up on the offer?
NC: Well, I don’t know but I’ll look into it.
OS: What steps do you believe bloggers should take to redeem themselves in your eyes?
NC: When you’re reporting something that’s fact, say how you got the information. How did you verify it? Where did it come from? That’s all.
OS: Now for the James Lipton portion of the program. In a fight to the finish, who wins, you or a bobcat?
NC: Well, a bobcat. I don’t know how to fight a bobcat, and I’ve seen a bobcat—they’re mean.
OS: You’re singing Karaoke. What song do you pick?
NC: I don’t sing. Ever. I won’t pick a song.
OS: What is your favorite television channel that does not predominantly show sports?
NC: The Travel channel, including the poker shows. That doesn’t count as a sport, does it?
OS: What actor would you cast to play you in a movie of your life? Verisimilitude and similarity are not issues.
NC: I have no idea why anyone would want to make a movie of my life. Honestly, I’ve never thought about that in my life. I don’t have a quick, witty answer for you.









1
Jay @ BGS says:
Nicely done, Orson. It’s painfully obvious she took one scandalous incident of internet rumor and extrapolated that to condemn ALL blogs, boards, etc. Thanks for following up with her. This exchange pretty much says it all:
OS: Do you read any football blogs daily?
NC: No.
OS: Do you ever read them?
NC: Oh yeah. Occasionally I look at the ones that pertain to Iowa and Iowa state.
OS: Which ones?
NC: No, I can’t name them off the top of my head.
August 11th, 2005 at 8:42 am
2
Kevin @ Fanblogs says:
Very well done. Without roughing her up, I definitely think you exposed that she isn’t up to speed on any of this. How many Iowa/Iowa State blogs are there? And she can’t name one? The basis for her screed is that blogs & message boards roughed up Alford? Hmmm….yet there’s nothing about this on Technorati, Feedster, Blogdigger, etc, etc. Who’s surprised?
August 11th, 2005 at 8:58 am
3
paulwesterdawg says:
This I think showcases her lack of sophistication in dealing with the Internet. There is a massive difference between what goes on via Internet Message Boards and blogs.
The crap that’s spewed as fact on message boards is staggering. That’s not to say that bloggers are always in the right. But our hit to miss ratio as a group is closer to MSM than we’re getting credit for.
I hope more members of the MSM hold her view that online media (in particular blogs) and their ability to aggregate niche content holds no threat to MSM.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:27 am
4
Randal says:
But, Paul, you forget that just a few weeks ago YOUR blog perpetuated a rumor about the UGA Athletic Department. The DawgVent was roaring about the AD and some sexual indescretion, which turned out to be nothing.
Sure, you didn’t go into great detail or do any speculation that reached Paul Pierce levels, but you certainly lended some sort of credit to the rumor by linking to it. I caught wind of the “story” through your blog and began my own online research to find out the deal, but not everyone does their own fact-checking.
You guys have to understand that your readers develop a trust, no matter how unworthy or how little you ask for it, with what you post. If you say, “Hey, this looks real!” your readers are likely to give your “tip” some weight until it is proven wrong. If you want to support your college programs, spreading baseless rumors aren’t the way to do it.
I’m not agreeing with Ms. Clark about blogs trying to represent or compete with the media, since she is obviously ignorant about the Internet and you guys make no such claims, but it’d be worthwhile for you guys to approach your postings with a bit more respect that even you think they deserve.
August 11th, 2005 at 9:54 am
5
Peacedog says:
I think it showcases an unwillingness to name blogs she reads. I’d wager all the money in my wallet (there’s actually some green stuff in there) she can name some Iowa/Iowa St blogs if she enjoys any of them. I don’t blame her for not wanting to.
The two incidents (basketball player, Alford) are sad, and I’ve seen similar stuff locally (nothing that severe). But that sort of stuff has been going on for a long time. I must blog about this.
Nice interview Orson – I thought you did a good job with the questions and it was interesting to hear her elaborate.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:05 am
6
Jim K says:
We should remember that bloggers are not to blame for gullibility. I rarely assume that bathroom graffity is truth, for example. Is it asking a lot of college football fans (not bloggers per se) not to latch on to scandal? I dare say it is! But the same holds true for tabloids’ audiences. It is unfortunate that people like gossip – but that is a flaw of human nature. Bloggers should not be culpable for all inaccurate rumors. Each crime, a criminal; each believer, a fool.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:18 am
7
Stranko Montana says:
There is no question in my mind that blogs (political and sports) and message boards can be incredibly mean spirited and destructive in perpetuating malicious falsehood… or less damaging but equally without credibility, in perpetuating rumor as truth. That sad, the MSM has the same problem in many cases except that being a part of the MSM gives instant credibility that being a blog or message board doesn’t have so the stakes are way higher. I don’t know the full story of Mike Price, but it that is stuck in litigation thanks to some questionable sourcing. I also remember many outlets, including ESPN reporting Bobby Stoops coming to Florida…. and three years later Urban Meyer coming to Notre Dame…. sounds like they were just spreading rumors too.
August 11th, 2005 at 10:39 am
8
Pete Holiday says:
So… if these MSM sorts are so good about citing their sources, I’d like to see the sources for Ms. Clark’s allegations that blogs perpetuated these scandals. Is that asking too much?
(PS: the second fanblogs link is missing a ‘http://’)
August 11th, 2005 at 11:25 am
9
Bruce Ciskie says:
Maybe I’m wrong here, but Nancy Clark’s thoughts on blogs remind me vividly of Joe Morgan’s thoughts on Moneyball. He hasn’t read it, yet he can’t stop talking about how big a piece of crap it is.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:32 am
10
Peacedog says:
Joe Morgan can’t stop talking about alot of things he’s wrong on. That’s as much an example that having played (and dominated) the game doesn’t mean you are qualified to discuss it from other perspectives. This is the same guy who once rambled on about how he’d rather have a pitcher with an era in the 3s and alot of wins over a guy with a lower era and less wins, because the former “kept his teams in games more often”. Huh? The offense scored more runs when that guy pitched, you dolt.
It is clear he hasn’t read it. That just makes it funnier when he talks.
She raises some valid points, but it’s old (in internet-time) news. I’ve written 3 separate things about this and deleted all 3. It’s true that there is less accountability here in the “blogpshere”. But you know what? People have been making shit up to start something for time out of mind. That’s *nothing* new. She should have gone to middle/highschool with me if she thinks the blogsphere is bad.
Know what else? This isn’t a zero-accountability environment. Peer pressure exists here. The people who buck it, common sense, and logic – the people who just keep spewing baseless crap – these people will ultimately get relegated to the fringe.
There will be bad bloggers who get attention because that is the way of these things (see: talk radio!).
August 11th, 2005 at 1:42 pm
11
ny1995 says:
Intereseting. Either she wants this story to go away or she didn’t really think it through before writing her article, and can’t back it up.
My take on it is that lots and lots of sportswriters (from local papers to national websites) treat their columns the same way we bloggers treat our websites. They aren’t treating it like serious journalism, and that erodes the distinction between them and the average blogger. Let’s not pretend that Dennis Dodd cites sources and gets two independent confirmations to support every claim he makes in his column.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:16 pm
12
Todd says:
I think Stranko really hit the nail on the head with the MSM gets instant credibility just for being the MSM. Most blogs I read (both political and sports related) are really just aggregates of news links with commentary/ridicule from the blogger. Good blogs add insight to the topic at hand and at times can correct mistakes or lead you to another account of an event. Bad blogs talk out of their asses and then get pissed if you disagree with them. On the whole, the good blogs stay around and get read while the bad ones disappear or are relegated to fringe nutjob status. The MSM seems to be in a snit because blogs are researching their articles and finding errors or biases and pointing them out, like the whole Rathergate fiasco. If it hadn’t been for bloggers and the internet 60 Minutes would have gotten away with an outright lie but instead they were completely embarassed and Dan Rather lost his job because ordinary people (not the higher class of being known as a “journalist”) had the audacity to question them. Its going to be the same with sports media and blogs before long. There are plenty of jackasses with jackass opinions, but there are also a lot of highly intelligent people that watch and love football and can pull up as many random facts from the internet as a paid commentator and come to the same (or better) conclusions. The age of vomiting a bunch of statistics into a column and never looking back no matter how wrong you were is over because the public has a way to hold columnists accountable. It’s not just bitching about the crap in the sports page at the bar anymore, it’s taking your criticism to the world at large and publicly shaming the sports media. If one of them makes some wild assertion that doesn’t hold true, they’ll hear about it later. Hey, if I suddenly lost the ability to act with impunity then I’d pissed too.
August 11th, 2005 at 2:35 pm
13
Peacedog says:
There may actually be more jackassess with jackass opinions in sports journalism.
Political blogs – some of them particularly – already became a big deal. Sports is definately next.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:41 pm
14
Orson Swindle says:
Hey, we know certain jackasses in the college football blogosphere already.
August 11th, 2005 at 3:52 pm
15
Brian says:
Guilty as charged!
August 11th, 2005 at 3:58 pm
16
Todd says:
Peacedog, righter than you know. There are plenty of news/political journalists and pundits that I read and respect, but only a handful of sports journalists and pundits that I even bother to read anymore (and all of them are primarily NFL). The sports blogs are really just a jumping off place for me to find news on other teams and read what their fans are saying. I pay close attention to Bama and UAB and keep up with our immediate SEC/CUSA rivals, but as far as other conferences really go I haven’t the slightest clue unless it’s one of the big programs that gets a lot of headlines (i.e. USC, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.), and then I don’t even know that much. Blogs perform a great service in keeping people who aren’t terribly inclined to scour for news on programs they aren’t really interested at least rudimentally informed on the happenings across the world of College Football. I don’t mean to be all “oooo…blogs….shiny” but the service provided by and the accountability of blogs and bloggers has really made me respect them more than the MSM.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
17
Peacedog says:
Nothing wrong with being “shiny happy” about blogs. As in all things, I’m fond of pointing out warts (and this time, I get to be one!).
Long ago internet became a vehicle for lots of people to have voices who didn’t have them before (long before blogging), often because they were too socially inept to have them in “RL”. Other people realized that it could be a pretty good tool eventually, and blogs are just an evolutionary result of that. Before blogs there were message boards. Before message boards there was Usenet. Before Usenet there were BBS. Etc.
Despite the warts, blogging is just a natural maturation IMO.
August 11th, 2005 at 4:32 pm
18
Cheap Seats says:
TO eggs supporters; Nancy Clark eggs bloggers.
“Clark also seems to lack understanding about blogs, which she revealed in an interview to blogger Orson Swindle of Every Day Should Be Saturday.”
August 11th, 2005 at 8:00 pm
19
Bill says:
If you guys keep acting this professional, you’re going to ruin your rep. Can you at least post a pic of Nancy with a classic devil goatee next wednesday? You know, just to balance things out.
August 11th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
20
Orson Swindle says:
We promise to have a thoroughly unprofessional Friday to make up for this.
August 12th, 2005 at 7:06 am
21
Peacedog says:
Hey, there was cock discussion yesterday. That has to count for something.
August 12th, 2005 at 9:38 am
22
Russ from Winterset says:
Good interview. I live in Central Iowa & read Nancy’s work on a regular basis. She’s disappointing to me, mainly because she does REALLY good work when she’s on, but when she isn’t, she can be snarky & uninformed and wrap it all up in a cloak of righteous indignation. I’m shocked she alleges that y’all were the only ones to contact her, since commenters at Captain’s Quarters apparently found that she deleted their e-mails without reading them.
Her allegations about “bloggers” spreading rumors about Lillis & Alford were pure bunk. Those rumors got their start on message boards, and there were no bloggers covering the Iowa sports beat back when these things occured (the Pierre Pierce sexual assault case, well the FIRST one anyway, came to light in September of ‘02). I honestly think Nancy doesn’t know the difference between bloggers and message board posters.
And another thing…..you might want to check the tape of the interview to see if you made an error, or if there’s an entirely new story for the blogosphere to flog Nancy over. Iowa State University has no player on their roster named “Todd Black”, but “Todd Blythe” is a MAJOR part of the Iowa State football team. Making a mistake with this guy’s name would be like the beat reporter for the New England Patriots referring to their starting QB as “Tom Black”.
Once again, this was a VERY good interview. I’d say it’s MSM quality – and I say that as a complement.
August 21st, 2005 at 8:27 pm
23
Orson Swindle says:
In the words of Dr. Z, thank you for the kind words and background.
August 21st, 2005 at 10:39 pm
24
Fanblogs.com says:
Blog basher’s own paper running sports blogs
Poor Nancy Clark. She spends all this time bashing blogs and now the Des Moines Register has gone out & gotten itself some sports bloggers. We have emailed Ms. Clark asking for her opinion on the DMR’s blogs….
September 10th, 2005 at 11:34 am